Lack of 5 man content

[Vaelanor]

I've been reading a couple of posts from the official forums where people were complaining that the lack of 5 man dungeons was a big turnoff these past two expansions, and it looks like it will be for a third. There hasn't been an official reply to the thread yet, but I imagine it'd say something along the lines of a philosophy change/would cost a raid tier type thing. So I just wanted your opinions, do you think Blizzard should dedicate finite resources, and we need to be honest, they are finite, away from raiding and to more 5 man content? Personally, I was a fan of 5 man content, I enjoyed being a geared tank or healer running them just for fun, and even though you did them for a whole expansion, when there are 10 of them, it doesn't get old.

On a side note, did scenario's fail miserably?

[WanderingBreezes]

We still don't know if they're going to add more dungeons with later patches as they expressed an interest in keeping them as a gearing option parallel to LFR. Something they can't do without either raising their ilvl requirements or adding new, harder heroics later on.

Keep in mind that even Cataclysm had only 4 dungeons you could run before max level.

[Deleted]

I think the age of "classic" 5-mans are gone - as they've been at least.
Very resource intense to build and get outdated as soon as new content patch is released with new ilvls.

I'd rather they keep iterating the scenario ideas further and perhaps apply the flex-tech to them making them anything from 3-9 mannable.

Having 10-15 smaller scenarios (instead of 4-5 full-length dungeons) that accommodate flexible group size (and perhaps a heroic version that would require a pre-made group) would be the best. Even better if they'd also either scale with your ilvl or just reset your ilvl to certain fixed number (like CM's) - so you don't overgear them after the first content patch.

Could even have flexible gear rewards to work as a "catch up" mechanism - sort of like Timeless Isle chest drops are now.

[Stormdash]

I miss 5 mans. They were a great dual-purpose of lore infusion and gear catch-up. Scenarios are not that effective for the latter, at least. The ICC 5 mans and the hour of twilight five mans had some of the best fights and best lore of both their expansions other than the raids.

[Kniff808]

If they had essentially 5 man raids, I think I'd be down with it. IE: a better blackrock depths or something like that. Just the HUGE 5 man dungeons where you're crossing bridges of lava etc etc. It feels cool kind of just being a small group of people infiltrating.

[Stormspark]

If they had essentially 5 man raids, I think I'd be down with it. IE: a better blackrock depths or something like that. Just the HUGE 5 man dungeons where you're crossing bridges of lava etc etc. It feels cool kind of just being a small group of people infiltrating.

That's kind of what they tried to do with Zul'Gurub and Zul'aman retuned for 85. I was mostly ok with that, except that they made the gear and VP rewards such that those were the ONLY viable heroics to do once patch 4.1 came out. Until patch 4.3, if you wanted VP, you had to do those two dungeons over and over and over and over. I don't want a situation like that again.

[Sinndra]

I've been reading a couple of posts from the official forums where people were complaining that the lack of 5 man dungeons was a big turnoff these past two expansions, and it looks like it will be for a third. There hasn't been an official reply to the thread yet, but I imagine it'd say something along the lines of a philosophy change/would cost a raid tier type thing. So I just wanted your opinions, do you think Blizzard should dedicate finite resources, and we need to be honest, they are finite, away from raiding and to more 5 man content? Personally, I was a fan of 5 man content, I enjoyed being a geared tank or healer running them just for fun, and even though you did them for a whole expansion, when there are 10 of them, it doesn't get old.

On a side note, did scenario's fail miserably?

in a sense i think scenarios failed, as i always thought they should have been targeted at the leveling crowd. they should not have been held back for end game content. *level thru some scenarios and quests while waiting for a dungeon queue.* is what i would have liked to have seen.

moving on, five man content dies with each tier once new five mans come out (this is especially true if the 5 mans come with raid equivalent gear). this was most noticeable during Cata. we ran the same 5 man dungeons until the troll dungeons came out, then we got to run a whopping 2 dungeons for ever since the rewards were far greater than the old dungeons. and once DS came out, with 3 new 5 mans, and Firelands equivalent gear, we forgot about the other dungeons and simply ran the same 3 DS dungeons over and over.

if they would learn to update dungeon rewards every tier and keep the pool of dungeons relevant then it would actually become a great use of resources in building more dungeons. but the current design is incredibly flawed and causes burnout faster when you are only focused on the best rewards which is the popular choice each tier.

[Vaelanor]

I too think the era of long 5 mans are over, I suppose they think/know people just don't want to do content like that anymore. Unfortunately that harms some of us that do enjoy that kind of content, something epic like infiltrating the city of the Dark Iron Dwarves, etc. Hell, even when I only had 2 or so hours to play I often only wanted to do something that intense, it was fun. Though, scenario's seem to be too quick, too rushed to be used as a lore mechanic or even a gear catchup. Though, they do provide great solo lore progression, I loved those solo scenario's.

[Gimlix]

WoD beta already has 8 Dungeons listed, so i don't know what your on about OP?

[sethman75]

Get rid of LFR and scenarios and put in a dozen or more really cool 5 mans.

Each major patch adds 3 more.

Put in some cool gear and its a win all round.

I hate how they destroyed 5 mans, it was the coolest thing about end game back in WOTLK for peeps like me who did not raid regularly.

[Vaelanor]

WoD beta already has 8 Dungeons listed, so i don't know what your on about OP?

I did say 'looks like', despite there being 7, 2 are re-hashes I think, or one is? Not sure.

As to the post above, that's a fantastic idea, keep LFR though, and keep it one raid tier behind so people can run one tier old content and get geared for flex while adding a few more 5 mans that have a chance to drop some great gear. Idk, I just really enjoyed 5 mans.

[Xayl1]

WoD beta already has 8 Dungeons listed, so i don't know what your on about OP?

additionally some of those are leveling dungeon and other ones are max level normal dungeons and all of them will have a heroic mode designed for with a higher skill cap in mind. likely not as harsh as the BC era heroics but considering the last plan we heard was locking them from random group finder until you have completed at least a silver proving ground medal i think we can say they are intended to still require more than face rolling your keyboard. SO I think that at least at the start Five-Mans aren't exactly being ignored as they were in MoP although it's still WAAAAY to early to tlel whether or not that they are going to be shelved for the rest of the expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

I did say 'looks like', despite there being 7, 2 are re-hashes I think, or one is? Not sure.

As to the post above, that's a fantastic idea, keep LFR though, and keep it one raid tier behind so people can run one tier old content and get geared for flex while adding a few more 5 mans that have a chance to drop some great gear. Idk, I just really enjoyed 5 mans.

why? their new system where casual players stick to normal five mans and graduate to LFR while hardcore players go from heroics to regular raiding seems like a grea comprimise. Hardcore players aren't even going to be sharing tier or gear models anymore.

[Nahela]

There's 8 dungeons listed with both normal and heroic modes now, the level breakdown hasn't been finalized yet, but they may all be available at all levels if they play with ilvl scaling on live. There was also a 9th that was unfinished that may make an appearance as well, in addition to them saying that they're going to add new 5mans as the expansion progresses, unlike MoP. Heroic 5s are supposed to be comparable gear to LFR I believe.

[Vaelanor]

additionally some of those are leveling dungeon and other ones are max level normal dungeons and all of them will have a heroic mode designed for with a higher skill cap in mind. likely not as harsh as the BC era heroics but considering the last plan we heard was locking them from random group finder until you have completed at least a silver proving ground medal i think we can say they are intended to still require more than face rolling your keyboard. SO I think that at least at the start Five-Mans aren't exactly being ignored as they were in MoP although it's still WAAAAY to early to tlel whether or not that they are going to be shelved for the rest of the expansion.

- - - Updated - - -



why? their new system where casual players stick to normal five mans and graduate to LFR while hardcore players go from heroics to regular raiding seems like a great compromise. Hardcore players aren't even going to be sharing tier or gear models anymore.

True enough, and I secretly think they are trying to phase out LFR eventually.

[Gimlix]

I did say 'looks like', despite there being 7, 2 are re-hashes I think, or one is? Not sure.

As to the post above, that's a fantastic idea, keep LFR though, and keep it one raid tier behind so people can run one tier old content and get geared for flex while adding a few more 5 mans that have a chance to drop some great gear. Idk, I just really enjoyed 5 mans.

Blizzard already said a long time ago that in WoD they have enough people to make a raid tier and a few dungeons in a patch instead of 1 of those.

[Tyrgannus]

I do miss the days where you had 16 5mans. BC and Wrath had the most end game 5 man content.

[Deleted]

Get rid of LFR and scenarios and put in a dozen or more really cool 5 mans.

Each major patch adds 3 more.

Put in some cool gear and its a win all round.

I hate how they destroyed 5 mans, it was the coolest thing about end game back in WOTLK for peeps like me who did not raid regularly.

LFR doesn't need to go since it's just another difficulty bracket of raids that already exist

I'd happily exchange every scenario for a couple more dungeons

[Xayl1]

True enough, and I secretly think they are trying to phase out LFR eventually.

I don't think that's the intention really it's an awesome tool. I think they just needed to re-align where it stands in the spectrum of endgame content which they seem to be doing. now that more hardcore players won't feel any need to run it it can go back to it's original intended purpose of acting as a way for more casual or time constrained players to get a taste of raid content and see the culmination of storylines. but this is a bit off topic heh. Either way provided they don't back down on thier stance for five mans I see them being fairly present this time around even if they aren't the sole non-raider end game they used to be.

[Myzou]

I'm giving Blizzard some faith, as stupid as it might be.

They said they're intending to add dungeons mid-WoD, but we all know they don't always keep their word.

[snuzzle]

There's 8 dungeons listed with both normal and heroic modes now, the level breakdown hasn't been finalized yet, but they may all be available at all levels if they play with ilvl scaling on live. There was also a 9th that was unfinished that may make an appearance as well, in addition to them saying that they're going to add new 5mans as the expansion progresses, unlike MoP. Heroic 5s are supposed to be comparable gear to LFR I believe.

Oh boy, eight whole dungeons! That surely isn't the least amount they've ever had at release at all! ;|

But seriously, it does feel like they don't quite know what to do with dungeons, and in MOP anyway it feels like they're being phased out. Perhaps WOD will change things, who knows.

All I know is they're going about things with dungeons all wrong. Making them stupid easy was the wrong move, making the challenging mode a fucking race was wrong, making them reward LFR gear in WOD is wrong. If they reward LFR gear, then it's obvious which route most people will take to gear up: LFR of course! If dungeons are harder than LFR, and they better fucking be, then they ought to reward better gear. By making LFR the only real stop on the gear train, they seem to be effectively putting the final nail in the five man coffin.

I do miss the days where you had 16 5mans. BC and Wrath had the most end game 5 man content.

This. Eight dungeons is cool and all, but it's really not enough. Yes they may add more in patches, which is good, but what they fail to realize is part of the reason players got bored with MOP dungeons so fast is there were so few of them (being faceroll was the other part).