Would you like to see a completely over the top raid challenge?

[Yalingo]

No I would not like to see this kind of thing put in the game because as history has shown, players can not help themselves when it comes to pushing themselves to the limits to achieve something which has led to serious consequences in the past, including death in marathon gaming sessions.

One such example.

[Deleted]

Pre nerf Yogg+0, most guilds gave up cause he was "impossible", took Stars around 1,2k+ tries with raid decked in full BiS gear to take down.
Mur'u didn't come even close to it.

[Deleted]

One thing I would totally like to see more of though is an increase in the amount of phases. A half-hour long end boss would certainly be something to watch.

But would be hell to progress on. Not fun for anyone involved in the kill. No, these kind of "over-the-top" challenges cannot be part of the natural progression curve. Those unofficial raid challenges that were mentioned in this thread, sound like a lot of fun and I would love if blizzard made some achievements along those lines (make them offer nothing except achievement points).

[Silent Earth]

But would be hell to progress on. Not fun for anyone involved in the kill.

Oh, without a doubt. Which is why I'm sure it will never happen. Still, purely as a spectator, I would enjoy watching it. One thing I think they could do without extending fights to absurd lengths is to make more, and different, phases, instead of just the same two that repeat over and over with extremely minor changes.

[Deleted]

Pre nerf Yogg+0, most guilds gave up cause he was "impossible", took Stars around 1,2k+ tries with raid decked in full BiS gear to take down.
Mur'u didn't come even close to it.

It wasn't a prenerf kill because the fight did get nerfed before they killed it(adds health/40% sanity). It didn't take 1.2k+ tries and that's a number you just made up. Their raid didn't have full BiS(which included several 239 pieces), but rather had normal gear.

[Deleted]

It wasn't a prenerf kill because the fight did get nerfed before they killed it(adds health/40% sanity). It didn't take 1.2k+ tries and that's a number you just made up. Their raid didn't have full BiS(which included several 239 pieces), but rather had normal gear.

Oh yeah, forgot about the sanity nerf, my bad but still, most guilds started killing it only after boss HP nerf.
But pretty sure other 2 things are correct, remember reading an interview about it back in the day, trying to find a source.
But to put things into perspective, it took them 70 days from first pull to a kill, and unlike most, they didn't stop trying.
Stars had 5 or 6 active raid groups back then, 5-6 raid groups can easily gear 25 people to near full bis in 10 weeks.

Gonna try to find that interview

[Notdev]

Those of you who are saying 0% H LK fits the bill are wrong. It doesn't at all. Limited attempts played a huge factor in how few guilds killed it with 10% or less of a buff.

Also.. reportedly Blizzard increased his HP from 68M to 103M because they panicked at how fast guilds were going 11/12H and how high DPS was.

[Debased]

I think every raid should have an Agalon style boss or two, of course tuned harder than Agalon himself and more on-par with Yogg 0-Light or H LK.

I also think the final boss and final wing bosses should have an attempt counter for mythic. That way they're more competitive instead of being killed first by the guild who raids 40 hours a week progression.

[Belloc]

A fight designed to be unbeatable is not going to be fun. People do not like bashing their heads against a fight that is tuned well above what they are capable of. Just look at all the guilds that completely gave up on Yogg-0.

Heroic LK with no buff at-level.

1 guild did it.

But it wasn't an achieve and so most guilds didn't even have a reason to try for it. To answer your question, yes, I wish they had made it a Feat of Strength.

Nobody killed Heroic LK at level with no debuff. The only people that killed him with no debuff were those that had been farming him with the debuff and had obtained heroic LK weapons. If you have to kill a boss with a debuff and farm that boss for loot before you can kill it with no debuff, then it doesn't really count.

IMO, at least.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

I'd like to see final bosses that are fairly straightforward with 8-16 weeks of gear collection but numerically impossible to get down the first or second week.

[fixx]

I also think the final boss and final wing bosses should have an attempt counter for mythic. That way they're more competitive instead of being killed first by the guild who raids 40 hours a week progression.

Attempt counter was cheesed in WLK by all serious guilds with alt raids. Blizz said it's a fail in game design and it wont be seeing the light of day again in wide use... Maybe for special cases like Ra-den where Lei Shen was so hard nobody could get alt raids there to practice.

I'd like to see final bosses that are fairly straightforward with 8-16 weeks of gear collection but numerically impossible to get down the first or second week.

So basically you want brainless gear check gating?

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

So basically you want brainless gear check gating?

The very best 100 or so players are SO much better at "brainless gear checks" than the next best 900 players that I'm sure around week 3 or 4 and 1000-2000 pulls, they'd have it sorted out.

[Diegles]

I like the idea of this, I will likely never get to see such a boss at the current pace I do raids, but killing M'uru prior to 3.0 was quite hard, and that was after the first nerf. It took my guild 3 months of progression to kill him, and we still struggled every week to kill him, so we could progress Kil'jaeden. We got KJ to 30%ish prior to 3.0 and basically 1-shot it after 3.0 -.- I do think it should be like Yogg+0 though, a possibility to kill the boss normally, without this extreme mode.

I am still surprised that nobody mentioned Lady Vashj or Kael'Thas prior to nerfs. Obviously Lady Vashj was bugged/overtuned, and I remember only 2 guilds killed Lady Vashj prior to nerf. Nobody killed Kael'Thas prior to nerf.

Nihilum killed Lady Vashj, having a bugged 500k Revenge crit afaik.
Method killed Lady Vashj, having the whole raid Soul Stoned. Kill video

While I dont know how long they wiped on her to kill her, I am sure it was a hell of a lot, since I was 2/6 SCC when she died.

Kael'Thas I've no idea how hard was, but I am sure people spent a lot of time trying to kill him as well. Nobody did though, prior to nerf.

Funny thing to add. Lady Vashj only dropped 1 Vial for the attunment quest to Black Temple, not 25 as she did after nerf/re-tune.

[aziras]

I went back with two friends to do Yogg+0 the other day. I still marvel on the depth of the encounter design each time I do it. Of course at lvl90, things are lot different from what it was back at lvl80, but it was still not trivial. Some of the mechanics cannot be outgeared. You still need to get out of the tentacles and not go insane before you are done. And unless you got some pretty good dps (or a lot of people) you still need to deal with the adds in P3 the right way.

I still prefer Yogg+0 over the H LK design. And do think that Yogg+0 is a model that should be used as baseline for superhardmodes. The fact that it is those extra layers of difficulty that you can toggle on as you get better at the fight is great. The mechanics are there in normal mode, Yogg+4 if you must, but once you get super proficient in dealing with them, you can kick it up a notch and go for a harder mode. The only difference in rewards between Yogg+1 and Yogg+0 are the achievements and a mount. Meaning they are at the peak of progression, but not really contributing to further progression.

It was the same with Sartharion. The Sarth3D only rewarded a mount and achievements compared to Sarth2D. But it still added complexity to the encounter without leaving people to feel that they did not down the boss. I remember many guilds at my server that never did Sarth3D. They went on to Ulduar and never looked back.

There is a lot of potential to design these encounters without them being a part of the progression path. It is also OK to have them become obsolete when the next tier is out. Not by retiring them, but simply by making guilds spend their effort elsewhere. Combined with achievements and mount loot this ensures that the guilds that get them beaten early gets more time to farm their mounts, while those who beat them right at the end still get achievement for everyone participating, just less mounts to go around.

[Deleted]

idk if mentioned yet, but warcraftlogs offers some extra challenges in an achievement style
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5#metric=feats

Immerseus

Jello Swirl
Defeat Immerseus on Heroic difficulty without allowing any Congealed Sha to die.

The Fallen Protectors

Extraordinary Measures
Defeat the Fallen Protectors on Heroic difficulty with the following restrictions in place for each Desperate Measures phase:

The Embodied Gloom cannot be interrupted.
The Mark of Anguish cannot be transferred, and the player holding the Mark cannot die.
No player may spend more than five seconds underneath the Meditative Field per phase.

...

Garrosh Hellscream

Dances With Wolves
Defeat Garrosh Hellscream on Heroic difficulty without killing any Farseer Wolf Riders.

[theburned]

Heroic LK with no buff at-level.

1 guild did it.

But it wasn't an achieve and so most guilds didn't even have a reason to try for it. To answer your question, yes, I wish they had made it a Feat of Strength.

no guild did it paragon were the first ones to do it at 5%. While people did it later with better it is essentially easier than with the buff and undergeared in most circumstances, usually ment more strong trinkets and weapons. which people were lacking

[Khorm]

no guild did it paragon were the first ones to do it at 5%. While people did it later with better it is essentially easier than with the buff and undergeared in most circumstances, usually ment more strong trinkets and weapons. which people were lacking

Stars killed it first champ at 0 keepers and 0 buff.

[theburned]

Stars killed it first champ at 0 keepers and 0 buff.

you are talking about yogg 0 keepers... I am talking about LK kill

[fixx]

Nobody killed Kael'Thas prior to nerf.

Fix. Not nerf. Original version was bugged so that boss would rack up healing aggro from phases 1-3 and it was literally impossible for tanks to get enough threat at the start of p4 with misdirects and taunts and other shit to prevent healers from dying. It was fixed to reset aggro when p4 starts and died pretty soon after.

I went back with two friends to do Yogg+0 the other day. I still marvel on the depth of the encounter design each time I do it. Of course at lvl90, things are lot different from what it was back at lvl80, but it was still not trivial

Having boss abilities do percentage damage instead of fixed numbers isn't really anything special or genius in design. It's just lazy way to avoid proper tuning. And it also makes soloing old content few tiers later impossible.

[Deleted]

All celestial with 10x more health, active at the same time.