Thoughts on joining and not finishing?

[Radio]

Yeah, that wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the people getting mad at me. (I wasn't aware that this was such a touchy subject. Yee-ikes)

A civilized discussion, for one.

I guess that's too much to ask.

I notice you haven't been here long, the response to this thread so far barely even qualifies as irritated, this is as civil as it gets around here.

[Koryn123]

You're like the guy getting pissed off, while flipping someone off, for slamming on the horn at you, because you ran a red. Then have the audacity to come some place to bitch about it. Like I asked, WTF did you expect?

(Which happened to me the other day, and I'm still rather sore about it.)

Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

I notice you haven't been here long, the response to this thread so far barely even qualifies as irritated, this is as civil as it gets around here.

Darn. I guess I'll just stay in the lore forums where you won't get attacked unless you start arguing the morals of the Horde/Alliance war.

Thanks for letting me know before someone really gave it to me. I probably couldn't withstand what is considered mean here.

[Radio]

Darn. I guess I'll just stay in the lore forums then,

I probably couldn't withstand what is considered mean here.

If you want to turn it up another few notches, hang around on General Discussion, or if you want to turn it up to 11, go check out General Off Topic!

[ablib]

You're like the guy getting pissed off, while flipping someone off, for slamming on the horn at you, because you ran a red. Then have the audacity to come some place to bitch about it. Like I asked, WTF did you expect?

LOL. this!

I understand where the OP is coming from through. He didn't think what he did was a big deal, was shocked when the raid members called him out on it, came here looking for fist bumps, then got even more emo when he got the same negative reaction here. BECAUSE...he didn't understand that what he did was incredibly selfish and inconsiderate (kinda like running a red light). Hopefully now he understands. Probably not.

[Koryn123]

Yeah, Raids and Dungeons forum is a little too much for me. Come down to the Lore forums for a visit sometime. We have cookies and nice happy things like that.

I guess I don't see the problem because I'm not really in it for clearing the raid, more just for gear, and DPS should be easy to replace. I suppose that is an inferior viewpoint and I'm evil for thinking it might be fine. No hard feelings, but the Lore forums are a bit more my speed. I can't handle the deep end of the pool.

[ablib]

I guess I don't see the problem because I'm not really in it for clearing the raid, more just for gear,

See...this is the selfish part of you talking. me, me, me, me, me

[Pivotpony]

Yeah, Raids and Dungeons forum is a little too much for me. Come down to the Lore forums for a visit sometime. We have cookies and nice happy things like that.

I guess I don't see the problem because I'm not really in it for clearing the raid, more just for gear, and DPS should be easy to replace. I suppose that is an inferior viewpoint and I'm evil for thinking it might be fine. No hard feelings, but the Lore forums are a bit more my speed. I can't handle the deep end of the pool.

That's why everyone else do it as well.. I bet most people didn't need anything from Galakras. So you join their group and they help you get your shit from the bosses you need, you help them get their shit from the bosses they need. Joining and leaving right after you didn't get your one item is just selfish.

If you can't commit the time to clear or stay until the group falls apart by itself, just don't join.

[NatePsy]

To me, based on what you said, you only joined to try and get an item you wanted from Galakras, once the boss was defeated you found an excuse to try and leave the group. That's a pretty shitty move on your part. Did you tell them you were only there for Galakras before joining? If not, that's on you. This way if you tell them you're only joining until Galakras, they can decide whether or not they want to invite someone like that.

What you did is selfish, pure and simple.

[Qualia]

I guess I don't see the problem because I'm not really in it for clearing the raid, more just for gear, and DPS should be easy to replace. I suppose that is an inferior viewpoint and I'm evil for thinking it might be fine. No hard feelings, but the Lore forums are a bit more my speed. I can't handle the deep end of the pool.

It's not evil, although I'm sure you were being sarcastic, it sure is selfish, though. What you just said can be translated loosely into "I'm only in raid for my own gains, I don't really care what other people want". That's the type of people that raid groups want the least. Had you stated before joining "I only need up to Galakras, I will leave after", I doubt you can find a group that easily. You probably know that, and decided to hide it on purpose. And now, it looks like you are even having issue with people calling that out?

[Deleted]

It's rude of you, sure. But it's pretty much standard practise in pugs these days and I pretty much expect 2/3 leavers after every boss.

[Koryn123]

I'll take everyone's almost identical responses into consideration next time. I wasn't aware that it was bad to leave as a dps. It appears I was wrong, and I apologize to the raid group if any of them read this.

[Pandragon]

I recently re-subbed, and wanted to get back into raiding. My guild wasn't very active, but I did have a group of friends I raided with before my subscription ran out. I asked them if there were any open spots in the group, but there were not.

The only things I need from normal SoO were a trinket from Galakras, and a Garrosh kill (I know the fight very well, but the rest of the groups I've been in have wiped over 30 times, according to Deadly Boss Mods), heirloom, mount, and title.

Instead, I joined a pug 10-man Normal SoO in OQ at Galakras for the trinket. We were telling jokes before it started, and everybody was friendly with each other having a good ol' time. We wiped once, because the people on the ground didn't interrupt the fractures on Lor'themar in time (I was in tower group), then the next one went very smoothly and we beat Galakras. It didn't drop the trinket, and I got gold from the bonus roll. I didn't want to be rude and just quit without a word, so I said something like "Thanks for the invite, it's getting late and I got to get to bed. Good luck, and good night all "

After I said that, someone said "wait," and I said "Yes?"

I was bombarded by insults from at least 5 of the other group members, "scum-sucker" being the kindest.

I said something like "Sorry, but I don't want to stay when I'm not going to get anything out of it, and we won't get to Garrosh before I'm too tired."

Two more insults were thrown my way before I was able to leave the group, and one more in /whisper format before I was able to hearth out of the raid.

I was willing to run the whole raid with my friends, because they're my friends, and it's fun to raid with them. I was not willing to stay the whole time with a bunch of strangers when I wasn't going to get anything I needed anyway. It is pretty late, and I didn't want to wipe a bunch, racking up repair bills, and spending the next few hours raiding before I quit anyway out of tiredness.

They asked me to wait before leaving. They went out of their way to insult me.

(I was also a DPS, 4th place in Recount, and thus easily replaced).

What do you think? Was I wrong?

I have struggled with this myself. But probably for a different reason. I'm christian and I have always seen it as not being nice to those in the group for just leaving like that. So I spent a lot of time torturing myself to stay in the raid unless several other people left too. At one point I just decided. "Screw it" and I started leaving groups when I no longer had a reason to stay in it. You don't owe anything to people you don't know. You are not obligated to stay until the end of a run. You didn't sign a contract, or make any verbal agreements to stay for the whole thing. They aren't friends, or guild mates. You join groups to get yourself gear, not gear others.

[Deleted]

"I'm only in raid for my own gains, I don't really care what other people want"

... which summarises pretty much any pug? I don't really pug to gear up others that I will never see again. Fixed runs with people I see every week? Sure.

[Koryn123]

Apparently, that's not what everyone else thinks is the way to do things. It's wierd, since my general experience with pugs has been people quitting the group at the drop of a hat (everyone seems to do it, regardless of what raid difficulty), yet everyone here seems to think it's as bad as barbequeing a kitten.

My thoughts exactly, Derpette.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Unless the raid is either really shitty or I've already been in it for at least two hours I stay until the end. I had a group wipe 6 times on Dark Shamans while 3 healing it (the idiots would just STAND on the ash elementals and in the foul geyser). I've only once left a group that didn't match either criteria, but that was due to the raid leader ninja'ing a dps trinket (didn't adversely effect me as I was healing, but not gonna stay in a group where I can't trust the person handling loot to not be a scumbag).

[Deleted]

In the case of normal/heroic style lockouts, it's incredibly rude to join a raid as you did while intending to leave after you kill a boss partway through.

No, its not, its called being efficient with your time. The run is advertized as its lockout, there is no predefined say for how many bosses you are going (assumption) and you don't know beforehand how good the group is. If there is no loot dropping for you, why bother? You cannot get more VP in this way than with HC scens, and you might already be VP capped. So in this case the group isn't going to get to the boss where this player needs loot from and hence he bails. What is wrong with that?

If you only want to participate up to Galakras next time, inform the raid leader first so that they can decide whether they're fine with it, else, don't bother joining unless you're willing to commit bar any emergencies.

That only reduces your chance of success.

Think about it this way: what if some of the players in that raid only needed something from Garrosh themselves?

Then they got too much free time because joining a Garrosh only run is much more time efficient.

Look I get all this "for the team" stuff if you're playing with people you know. Your guildies or friends. Sure thing. But random strangers...?!

[dragon171]

... which summarises pretty much any pug? I don't really pug to gear up others that I will never see again. Fixed runs with people I see every week? Sure.

Then why should the others bother to inv you and take you along for any run to get what you want? If you not willing to put in the effort, why should others do the same to get what you want...

[Deleted]

Think about it this way: what if some of the players in that raid only needed something from Garrosh themselves?

Then they probably need to get their heads checked if they join a galakras run (or earlier) to kill garrosh with a pug.

Then why should the others bother to inv you and take you along for any run to get what you want? If you not willing to put in the effort, why should others do the same to get what you want...

What does this question even mean? They needed someone cause they were only 9, so I joined, and helped. Why they need to invite me? Because they have mutual goals as me: kill bosses and gear up alts. It's a pug, not a charity, people are selfish almost by default. Anyone who claims what OP does is douchy makes no sense, because we all have a point where we start leaving. Whether it's midnight and you want to go to sleep, or X amount of wipes, etc. It doesn't matter. Everyone has a different treshold, probably different per run. And they're all arbitrary as can be, so why would your rule for when to leave be better than OP's? There's only 2 absolute: you either leave or you don't leave till you're the last person in the group. The amount of people that do the latter is ridiculously small though in my experience (with good reason), and most of the time complete disbands happen because raid leader is leaving (for whatever reason) and nobody wants to pick it up and go recruit.

If anything, it's the raid leader's fault imo. If he had armoried the OP he would have seen that he needed galakras trinket, and only that. My friend organises 25m pugs for SoO now and then, and he always gets those nice 570 mages with just missing immerseus trinket. Yeah, let's invite those shall we.

[tiporispit]

So you want the rewards, without putting in the work. Sounds like you probably attended more than a couple Occupy Wall Street rallies...

[Franzy]

I'd probably stay until they have another wipe, instead of leaving after a success.
I find it ruder someone coming for 1 boss and them knowing they are gonna bail after the kill then someone leaving after a wipe because I can understand the frustration.