[WoD] Saving Grace

[Jimjam38]

Inb4 they completely redesign in within a month of release because lfrtards constantly nerf themselves with it. But of course they wont redesign it until after they make sure to nerf unrelated abilities for priests in pvp cause saving grace op. I cant think of another ability in the game whose use actively impairs throughput as a result. What the hell are they thinking.
>saving grace goes live
>priests op in arenas
>"no, no, its not saving grace is problematic, its everything else " - Celestalon
>'balance' (nerf) all other abilities around having problematic op ability
>LFRtards use it too much and wipe fest
>Redesign talent
>"Its not that it was problematic, its that it didnt get used exactly how we envisioned and the result was it was problematic. Also, I'd like to add, herp derp potato."-Celestalon

[Deleted]

Edit @Havoc: Overall HPS is subject to strategies, not to tactics, so it has to be thought about 'longterm' (therefore HPS healing per second), in the heat of the moment intuitive decisions will mostly be made by tactics (or should be for gameplay reasons), here the relative worth of SG always stays the same.

It is true that SG is quite counter-intuitive, but still you have a solid rule for using it. Don't stack it past the point where it becomes worse than the unbuffed spell you would otherwise use. You know what spells you are using at the moment so you should know how many debuffs you can take at any given moment. That won't necessarily give you the best use of SG (which requires a lot of foresight and planning), but it will always prevent you from making an avoidable loss. This talent needs some mental discipline to use.

I don't disagree that players can easily make a bad choice with SG, but it is never an unavoidable or inevitable choice. I doubt the talent will see much use in its current form except in the hands of people who understand how to turn it into an advantage in the few situations where it is actually an advantage.

Saving people from the fire is actually a pretty solid use for SG. A 20% healing debuff, which you can announce to the raid, in the context of a well functioning healing team, is no big deal. People can cover you for a few seconds, but healing someone for 1430% of spell power in the span of 1 GCD can potentially save someone who messed up from dying. I would call that a good use of SG.

I also think SG will be OP in arenas.

As for Holy, the fact that it retroactively affects all your spells makes the talent very unenticing. If I need ST burst, I might as well use Flash Heal, because that at least generates stacks of Serendipity

ST burst with flash = 320% of spellpower + 320% of spellpower + 320% of spellpower using flash/flash/gheal. All casts and total time taken is 4.5s. At a fairly hefty mana cost too.

ST burst with Saving grace. 753% of spell power instantly + 678% of spellpower one GCD later. The former is nice, but healing for 50% more in 1/3rd of the time and without having to hardcast is a very different beast. On top of that you still have the serendipity combo open to you before or after SG. You can't really say that holy has any decent ST burst without SG. Not compared to what many other classes have.

The situation for disc is very different and it is just simply down to the choice between SG and CoW.

[Jimjam38]

The thing is that their entire current design philosophy is completely against giving players the option to nerf themselves. It's the reason they redesigned the talent system in MoP.

- - - Updated - - -

Furthermore, icy veins and noxxic will no doubt say 'dont use this talent, its too difficult to use without nerfing yourself' and then it will hardly get used by the plebs and blizz will replace it for that reason, if not simply that its problematic

[Grubjuice]

I cant think of another ability in the game whose use actively impairs throughput as a result. What the hell are they thinking.

Demon Bolt....

[Basmothh]

Demon Bolt....

The only downside to that spell is that it increases the cost of using it per cast. Saving Grace reduces ALL our absorbs and healing. I would honestly much rather have SG work like Demonbolt does.

[Overdispersion]

Demon Bolt....

"Launch of ball of demonic energy at the target, dealing (250% of Spell power) Chaos damage.

Each Demonbolt amplifies further Demonbolts, increasing damage by 20% and cost by 100% for 1 min (reduced by Haste), stacking up to 10 times."

What? How does this impair your throughput? You can use Demonbolt and then start using any other ability and its damage or mana cost isn't increased. It's like saying spamming Flash Heal actively impairs throughput because you go oom and can't use other spells.

[Noradin]

It is true that SG is quite counter-intuitive, but still you have a solid rule for using it. Don't stack it past the point where it becomes worse than the unbuffed spell you would otherwise use. You know what spells you are using at the moment so you should know how many debuffs you can take at any given moment. That won't necessarily give you the best use of SG (which requires a lot of foresight and planning), but it will always prevent you from making an avoidable loss. This talent needs some mental discipline to use.

This is basically the defintion of "it requires strategy to use, using tactics alone and it will trap you". (Which I find great!)
It will cause a lot of frustration among those who just "want to daddle for a bit and have fun" - which basically translates to "no strategy just spur of the moment tactics and have fun!". Which might get Blizzard to remove it entirely, as they did with other interactions that required "too much" strategy to use in the past. (Which is bad and would most likely leave us with a mediocre replacement.)

[Darkener]

This is basically the defintion of "it requires strategy to use, using tactics alone and it will trap you". (Which I find great!)
It will cause a lot of frustration among those who just "want to daddle for a bit and have fun" - which basically translates to "no strategy just spur of the moment tactics and have fun!". Which might get Blizzard to remove it entirely, as they did with other interactions that required "too much" strategy to use in the past. (Which is bad and would most likely leave us with a mediocre replacement.)

Like Void Shift. But if we have to take SaG (I see SG as Spectral Guise and think SaG is a better abbreviation because it describes the downside) then we lose our go-to talent for a niche strategy moment in a boss fight that should never be designed to require niche talents in the first place. The SaG niche is PvP, if I have to take SaG to get around a boss mechanic it's like a big FU to Priests.

[Deleted]

Like Void Shift. But if we have to take SaG (I see SG as Spectral Guise and think SaG is a better abbreviation because it describes the downside) then we lose our go-to talent for a niche strategy moment in a boss fight that should never be designed to require niche talents in the first place. The SaG niche is PvP, if I have to take SaG to get around a boss mechanic it's like a big FU to Priests.

This of a fight like this:

The raid is spread out because the boss bombs the raid every 10s with x fireballs targeted on individual players doing fairly heavy damage each and splash damage over 10yard radious SaG will probably net you more healing than anything else in such a scenario. This does not require SaG to heal, but SaG might be the best way to go about healing it for holy.