Moonkin patchnotes

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Fixt.

So if my math is right, the direct dmg of moonfire with lunar peak buff is equal to the dmg of unempwered starfires?

45*2/1.5 = 60 vs 180/3 = 60

Mastery affects both so didn't include that. In practice I seem to get more dmg out of unempowered starfires though, don't know why.

The math is correct, however your "fix" isnt.

Unless you think that near 10% of your damage is shit, then you might aswell say that all of your spells are shit.

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Sorry been busy the last week or 2, any rotational changes I need to put into simcraft?

Dont think there was anything really, perhaps we'd gain more dps by forcing Stellar Flare use at the center now that its damage was nerfed.
Also treants shouldnt be the best pick of talents, either Inc or SotF (inc has really poor priorities in the list)

[Deleted]

Starfire having 3sec base cast is fine, nothing wrong with it. Moonfire spam on single target is never better than hard casting Starfires (assuming target doesnt die during the starfire cast) and spamming Moonfire to multiple targets (having one up in every target) is always better than hardcasting Starfire to one (assuming targets wont die in a few seconds).

You're right and in this case i made the classic error of writing something with no fact to back it up so forget the moonfire spam. I think the problem is that a 3 second starfire right now feels so slow when compared with the current output on live. That might be a bit of spoilt child syndrome with current levels of haste but really i was comparing a main rotational spell with similar ability for other ranged spell classes and i couldn't see why starfire in particular was 3 seconds compared to say a fireball from a mage especially when you factor in the eclipse bar. I'm thinking of instances where:

You're eclipse bar is heading back to centre from lunar and you are required to move.
Right now movement is compensated usually with a starsurge proc. You won't ideally be doing that in WoD as at this time of eclipse you'd waste the lunar empowerment as you would never cast the two 3 second starfires in that time before eclipse reaches the middle.

Sure, if you have 2 starsurge procs this may be viable to do but the point i'm really making is that at 3 seconds it's really rather limiting at certain times in conjunction with a constantly moving eclipse bar.

So you have moved and you have 2.5 second left before you hit the middle, do you cast a sub optimal starfire, or do you cast a wrath that will hit too early again sub optimal, or do you refresh your moonfire (not needed), pop starfall? Stella flare can address this to a point in this situation and ultimately i guess you say that you had to move and therefore expect the nerf in dps. However, you have been penalsed first for moving, and secondly for your eclpise bar moving out of your control.

Compare that to a mage for example who has to move but then once finished moving simply picks up where he left off and casts a fireball.

That is the point i am trying to make.

I love the eclipse idea with moonkin i think the idea of the class taking power from the sun and moon is totally key to moonkin. However, i don't think this latest implementation of an eclipse system resolves any of the problems from before and creates some new ones.

I have no problem with the solar side of rotation, it's faster allowing you to make decisions more on the fly without compromising your dps.

Movement punishing our dps is how it should be. I dont know what you want from this game, but if you just want to cast everything while moving then go play some game like Wildstar, it seems to be a better fit for you.

Yes, I agree, it's not the punishment I have a problem with it's the level of punishment in relation to other classes and moonkin has notoriously suffered heavily in movement fights in the past which is why this concerns me in the first place. Again, this has been masked mainly by the sheer exuberant amount of starsurge procs we get currently that make movement punishment minimal. This will not be an option in WoD, nor would I wish it to be as it's not a particularly interesting play style. No interest in space wow or hunter

Euphoria is supposed to be a dps talent that neither adds or removes a spell, but changes the priority system feeling (rather than the system itself)

Probably why I favour this right now

Stellar Flare adds extreme benefit to multidot, its cast time is the same as our gcd - effectively having the same cast time as Moonfire or
Sunfire. Its damage difference between 0 point and peak eclipses is minimal, meaning it deals near maximun damage all the time its on.
Its damage nerf was justified and made it to be onpar with BoP on single target. Its superior on multitarget by far which seemed like their initial intention.

Makes sense and I hadn't factored in the GCD

Resto Druids and Holy Priests are currently strong because hots are way too strong.

Ye, this is what I mean by instant cast spells, but this is off topic and more about the way damage is sustained and hots being superior for triage.

You say you're not fine with unbalance brought into classes by movement dps, yet you've played this game this far.
I suggest you pick a melee class, then you can just go and whack all the time even while moving - or just reroll the game.

It's fine i just want it to be more in line, and looking at the state of warlocks on live right now for example, it's that kind of absurd disparity between same DPS specialisation classes that I really don't want to see creep into WoD. I like ranged classes because movement does bring some level of thought process into the mix when dealing damage/healing.

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@QuadEarz, You're thinking of instances where we're going from peak eclipse to middle while we're on the move and thinking we're losing more dps than other classes because of that. Well now take an instance where you're going from middle to peak, effectively losing less dps than other classes.

The eclipse system has pro's and con's, the ultimate pro is class disparity.

The decision between sub optimal starfire and sub optimal wrath (reall, sub optimal? they're nearly always sub optimal since they're only optimal at peak times, which is ~1/10th of the time) can be decided by the fact of which of the spells is better at that point. Its rather easy to do via addon or you can just decide yourself, the damage difference is minimal anyway (as long as you more or less know how the spells and eclipse works)

About the state of warlocks, they're currently so op because of all the gear, trinkets, cheesing mechanics and fast kill times. They were one of the best classes in progress sure, but nowhere as op as they're currently.

If you're such a fan of ranged movement dps bringing level of thought in the process, why are you trying to get it removed?

On the other note, Blizzard is reducing one the move dps from every class - not just moonkins.

[Owlkin]

On the other note, Blizzard is reducing one the move dps from every class - not just moonkins.

Hunters disagree with you.

About BoP. I am fine with BoP.

On bosses like Oregorger BoP 2+ min dots work fine becouse they ticking while boss rolling around.

But what to do on moving? Cast MF and replace 2+ min MF with 40/20s is not look good.

[Glurp]

Hunters disagree with you.

Hunters lose patchwerk DPS for their mobility.

[Miraclous]

Hunters disagree with you.

About BoP. I am fine with BoP.

On bosses like Oregorger BoP 2+ min dots work fine becouse they ticking while boss rolling around.

But what to do on moving? Cast MF and replace 2+ min MF with 40/20s is not look good.

It wil not refresh your dot. You will never refresh a dot with a duration longer than the one that's applied already. (And also not extend one last time I tested. So when you refresh a 30 sec moonfire you get a ~54sec moonfire, while if you refresh a 43 sec moonfire it stays a 43 sec moonfire :/)

[Ereshmilor]

It wil not refresh your dot.

That's his point. Moving decreases the value of BoP

You will never refresh a dot with a duration longer than the one that's applied already. (And also not extend one last time I tested. So when you refresh a 30 sec moonfire you get a ~54sec moonfire, while if you refresh a 43 sec moonfire it stays a 43 sec moonfire :/)

You should get a 52s Moonfire (130% of 40s). You should always get a min(52, remaining duration +40) s Moonfire, everything else is a bug.

[Deleted]

You should always get a min(52, remaining duration +40) s Moonfire, everything else is a bug.

If you refresh Moonfire at 45 seconds, you don't gain 52, you remain at 45. This seems to be a bug if you compare this to the Pandemic behavior on live.

Question: when going towards lunar/solar eclipse and already in that half, when do you hit the Starsurge button, if you have less than 3 SS stacks and no empowerment?

[Ereshmilor]

Question: when going towards lunar/solar eclipse and already in that half, when do you hit the Starsurge button, if you have less than 3 SS stacks and no empowerment?

Solar: Hitting 100 Energy, no matter how much haste you have.
Lunar: With 37% Haste you get the 3 spells within the Peak timeframe. With 0% haste, most damage when you cast SS on 95 energy.

But +/- 1s is still 99%, so like StFl, it doesn't really matter.

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Question: when going towards lunar/solar eclipse and already in that half, when do you hit the Starsurge button, if you have less than 3 SS stacks and no empowerment?

You should try to keep yourself at below 2 stacks most of the time (aka ~all the time in normal rotation, only known burst phases should you save Starsurges).
With 1 stack, just cast it so that you get out all empowerment spells at ~peak times

[omri1212000]

"Hunters have a ton of talents which grant rotational or short CD abilities, to support this design. However, they were lacking in rotational depth."

Any1 mind tweet about moonkins rotation? and how much "depth" there is. esp with BOP as a talent 3-buttons-rotation. we are the new arcane mages wooo

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"Hunters have a ton of talents which grant rotational or short CD abilities, to support this design. However, they were lacking in rotational depth."

Any1 mind tweet about moonkins rotation? and how much "depth" there is. esp with BOP as a talent 3-buttons-rotation. we are the new arcane mages wooo

Theres no rotational depth in single target, its not just BoP problem. Its the whole design behind eclipse. As long as the system is "Lunar, press starfire. Solar, press Wrath" its never going to change.

[omri1212000]

Theres no rotational depth in single target, its not just BoP problem. Its the whole design behind eclipse. As long as the system is "Lunar, press starfire. Solar, press Wrath" its never going to change.

Which makes it even worse.
I understand the removal of snapshotting from all classes, as they made dots\bleeds quite OP.
However, making the game plays for us, and we just follow and execute the Spell, its quite dumb. we should have a saying when to enter or leave an eclipse.
But for some reason, it seems like they have forgotten about us- Does that mean they are happy with our lvl 100 talents and our rotation in general?

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Which makes it even worse.
I understand the removal of snapshotting from all classes, as they made dots\bleeds quite OP.
However, making the game plays for us, and we just follow and execute the Spell, its quite dumb. we should have a saying when to enter or leave an eclipse.
But for some reason, it seems like they have forgotten about us- Does that mean they are happy with our lvl 100 talents and our rotation in general?

With the current eclipse system, the rotation is quite fine with all of the talents (obviously euphoria is just theoretical).

Theres 2 ways to make rotations into proper priority systems.
1) Add procs, the more the merrier.
2) Have alot of spells with different timers.

The problem with #1 is that procs are hard to make scaleable (problems with moonkins on live). With #2 people tend to feel "overwhelmed" with all the buttons.
Now the moonkin system on beta has 1 proc (Shooting Stars) with talents that add/remove spell or fasten the eclipse cycle. Sure there could be a spell that has X CD and should be used more or less whenever its up, but would that really make any difference? just filling up action bars.

But dont worry people, other classes have the same problems. Rotations feeling "too easy", its just quite impossible to make a system that is easy to learn but hard to use.

Lets fill up all classes with This and everybody is happy

[Owlkin]

When you talk about the difficulty I compare my TMB settings on live and beta

Live
1. SS procs
2. Trinkets

Beta.
1. SS charges
2. Solar Empowerment charges
3. Lunar Empowerment charges
4. Solar Peak buff timer
5. Lunar Peak buff timer
6. Empowerment moonkin proc timer
7. Starfall timer
8. Trinkets

So a number of things for which is necessary to look increased significantly. But their impact on our DPS is not as strong as on live.

Еhis is clearly consistent with moto "Easy to Learn, Difficult to Master".

[Glurp]

When you talk about the difficulty I compare my TMB settings on live and beta

Live
1. SS procs
2. Trinkets

I'd like to see your parses then if that's what you consider to be the defining skill cap of Boomkin.

[Haeler]

After playing moonkin on beta, I feel as they are too dumbed down compared to how it is now. I will not be playing boomkin come wod, imo they should have just kept it the way it is right now. some of the changes they are doing to every class is okay but majority of them is flat out wrong.

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I'd like to see your parses then if that's what you consider to be the defining skill cap of Boomkin.

LOL are you trying to call him out or something? don't even get me started with your parses.

[Owlkin]

I'd like to see your parses then if that's what you consider to be the defining skill cap of Boomkin.

It is not difficult for me. But when my guildmate asc me to explane how to play "Master" moonkin beta version look much more complicated.

[Gapezilla]

Oh come on guys lets not start a flame war about parses 497 days into farm.

Glurp has a point, however silly he might have said it. Live boomkin is just a bit more than "ss proc and trinket tracking", but we all know that. I think if they can give us a proper row of 100 talents the spec will have plenty of depth to work with comparative to live. Just gonna have to wait and see at this point.

[lappee]

When you talk about the difficulty I compare my TMB settings on live and beta

Live
1. SS procs
2. Trinkets

Beta.
1. SS charges
2. Solar Empowerment charges
3. Lunar Empowerment charges
4. Solar Peak buff timer
5. Lunar Peak buff timer
6. Empowerment moonkin proc timer
7. Starfall timer
8. Trinkets

So a number of things for which is necessary to look increased significantly. But their impact on our DPS is not as strong as on live.

Еhis is clearly consistent with moto "Easy to Learn, Difficult to Master".

That list is so biased, its unbelievable. I could make a similar list, that differentiates stuff like solar and lunar empowerment (really?). That list would've around 3-4 times more stuff to be concerned about on current live vs current beta.