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  1. #1

    Deadly Throw - no min range

    Sometimes the devs do things and I just don't really understand why.


    In this case, I kind of do. They wanted to buff deadly throw, and it's not exactly clear as to how. The damage can't go up that much, and the lockout power, while not considered greater than the other options on live, is still something that could become WAY too good if overtuned (there was that one video from BC of a rogue stopping all non instants from a shaman for like two minutes straight, and 1 CP deadly throw was a big part of that).

    But this buff is definitely odd. It means that deadly throw will become pve and pvp utility more than it already is. Already deadly throw had some use in raiding because of this buff (though it would really hurt the dps).


    So is it the right buff? Maybe. Either way, I'm definitely excited about it. Deadly Throw is one of my favorite moves, and I still remember the player thread that spawned the move in the first place. It seems that DT will, for the first time since the MoP made it a talent, actually be worth a talent point in more than just extremely niche situations.

  2. #2
    All this is gonna do is get it nerfed

  3. #3
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    So we're always gonna be on interrupt duty...

  4. #4
    Come ON guys, this is a pretty great buff. In order for it to be nerfed, rogues would have to actually choose it over CR and NS, AND it would have to be overly disruptive. It's still on the global cooldown and has animation delay, so it has never been kick. And if we're the best at interrupts, which we were designed to be, why would it be surprising to be on interrupt duty? In fact, this already happens. In MANY fights, I've had to deadly throw interrupt, which has involved walking out of melee range. That's a damage buff for a job that a rogue is important at.


    I mean, like, there's plenty to complain about. I agree. But when we get some pretty straight up buffs and bitch about them, that means that the communication channel is low signal for a dev or a player. "We nerfed rogues and had an 80 page bitch fest. We buffed rogues and the bitch fest was only 4 pages. Take 80, multiply by 4, carry the "screw the forums", divide by infinity QQ"...

  5. #5
    It is going to be nerfed due to PVP reasons.

    There are many ways they can buff it but that wasn't the best way.

  6. #6
    I'm not complaining I'm just saying if this does make people actually take it in pvp it will just get nerfed. There enough qq about interrupts in beta as it is.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Phookah's Avatar
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    This was the change/buff rogues needed.
    Now all other problems we have seem not so bad!
    THEY BUFFED DEADLY THROW GUISE.
    /sarcasm

  8. #8
    PvP will get it nerfed. Nothing to see here.
    Stay salty my friends.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    "We nerfed rogues and had an 80 page bitch fest. We buffed rogues and the bitch fest was only 4 pages. Take 80, multiply by 4, carry the "screw the forums", divide by infinity QQ"...
    Nononono, you carry the infinite QQ and divide by "screw the forums" and on thursdays, you take the 5th root.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  10. #10
    As everyone already said, it's gonna get nerfed, that's how the rogue class rolls.

    I actually cant believe that they have such a big pool of feedback and people are freaking frustrated as hell with the lack of meaningful changes and they focus their attention on DT and the other bs they did this patch. I mean do they really just ignore every thread and even the rogue focused thread on the beta forums?

  11. #11
    DT is my favorite as well but as we all know with the combo points not requiring a redirect or GCD it pretty much makes DT inherently strongly coupled with casters needing to cast in beta. Rogues didn't lose much CC compared to other classes and uptime is above average to good with Shadow Step or Burst of Speed.

    Had they made DT more interesting for PVE more people would be inclined to take it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    And if we're the best at interrupts, which we were designed to be, why would it be surprising to be on interrupt duty?
    Funny, when were we designed that way? Our interrupt was on par with the warrior one for a long time to start with shaman really having the best one. Our interrupt was one of the last ones to have the resource cost removed. And warriors can get a dps gain from interrupting now that both of ours are free. The only time that was true was when FoK had a combat talent that made it interrupt.

    And don't try to tell me having a rogue sit at range in pve for DT was an actual intentional design because that is a load of crap. The DT interrupt came originally from pvp gloves... they never designed us to use pvp gloves and sit at range to use DT in raids.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Funny, when were we designed that way?
    Since WoW beta?

    Our interrupt was on par with the warrior one for a long time to start with shaman really having the best one.
    At game launch:

    Rogues had kick. Kick was 10 second cooldown, 5 second duration.
    Warriors had shield bash, which was 12 second cooldown, 6 second duration.
    Shaman had earth shock, which was 6 second cooldown, shared with the shock cooldown, and on the global. 2 second duration.
    Mages had counterspell, which was like 30 or whatever, I dunno.
    Locks had spellhump on their humpydog, and it was like counterspell but a bit worse.

    Priests, druids, paladins, hunters had no interrupts.


    Eventually (in vanilla) warriors got pummel, which required berserker stance.


    So yes, rogues were designed as the general best at lockouts and controls. It wasn't until PvE had tons of interrupts that they decided to insure that EVERY melee spec had at least one interrupt, because of being pushed out of raid as a concern.


    And yes, we did get our cost taken away last. That's because they are super lazy with rogues, as you all fucking know!

    EDIT: removed out of place inline quote

    And don't try to tell me having a rogue sit at range in pve for DT was an actual intentional design because that is a load of crap. The DT interrupt came originally from pvp gloves... they never designed us to use pvp gloves and sit at range to use DT in raids.
    Of course they did. You don't sit at range, you run out of range when the boss is about to begin casting. This was a standard black temple strat in some cases, of course the devs knew all about it.
    Last edited by Verain; 2014-08-31 at 11:39 PM.

  14. #14
    It has been nerfed in the latest beta build. It is actually worse to use than live because the no min range requirement on it it is not good enough to off set the fact you need 5 CP interrupt.

    This experiment was tried once (5 CP) and no one picked the talent which prompted blizz to buff DT.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    All this is gonna do is get it nerfed
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    It is going to be nerfed due to PVP reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krommm View Post
    PvP will get it nerfed. Nothing to see here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karry View Post
    As everyone already said, it's gonna get nerfed, that's how the rogue class rolls.
    Hey guys, guess what... it got nerfed. Didn't see it coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    At game launch:

    <snip>

    Of course they did. You don't sit at range, you run out of range when the boss is about to begin casting. This was a standard black temple strat in some cases, of course the devs knew all about it.
    I'll admit, I didn't realize pummel wasn't in at launch. That you can say a 10 sec cd 5 sec lock out is without a doubt superior to a 12 sec cd 6 sec lock out or 6 sec cd 2 sec lock out usable at range is a load of crap. I'd say the shaman option is better because it is up more often and usable on things outside melee range. Most pve mobs won't immediately recast their deadly spells when the lockout ends so shorter can mean you need less people. The ability to do it at range is amazing in pvp. You're saying the middle option is better, but whatever. One wasn't objectively better than the other, and it isn't like we had more than one tool.

    And bull shit they designed it that way. Yes, it was a standard BT strat on council. I remember doing that. The standard Raden strat was to completely skip half the fight. That wasn't the design intent. They didn't design it so that we had to go pvp to get gloves to then use in raids. People started doing it, and they just let us keep doing it.

    And yeah you did have to sit out there. You didn't know the exact second she would try to heal and the cast time and travel time you were very likely to not be able to go out and get it in time. Not permenantly obviously because you would need cp and there was a gap to get a bit of dps in.

  16. #16
    Devs are just adding random changes to abilities that no one uses in order to make it look like they are not ignoring rogues.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    And don't try to tell me having a rogue sit at range in pve for DT was an actual intentional design because that is a load of crap. The DT interrupt came originally from pvp gloves... they never designed us to use pvp gloves and sit at range to use DT in raids.
    In vannilla and BC Gouge was also a secundary cut, remember the mana elements in Kara, right before Aran.
    I was on cut duty in BC at Illidari Council, taking care of the priestress...
    FoK interrupt was overpowered (AoE cut), thanks to this mechanism I was alone in LK on cut duty against Vezax.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    It has been nerfed in the latest beta build. It is actually worse to use than live because the no min range requirement on it it is not good enough to off set the fact you need 5 CP interrupt.

    This experiment was tried once (5 CP) and no one picked the talent which prompted blizz to buff DT.
    They are actually much more reactive at nerfing our abilities than at improving our talent "tree"... XD

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    So we're always gonna be on interrupt duty...
    Everyone is on interrupt duty. Everyone!

    Never known otherwise. It's casting, I'm interrupting!

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Everyone is on interrupt duty. Everyone!

    Never known otherwise. It's casting, I'm interrupting!
    Not always : at Black Temple, Reliquary of Souls, having everybody at the interrupt duty was usually leading to a wipe as specific spells should be interrupted, other should absolutely be taken by the tank and the boss was constently casting.

  20. #20
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithildine View Post
    Not always : at Black Temple, Reliquary of Souls, having everybody at the interrupt duty was usually leading to a wipe as specific spells should be interrupted, other should absolutely be taken by the tank and the boss was constently casting.
    How do you confuse "everyone is on interrupt duty" with "interrupt every spell"?
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