PvE Professions for WoD

[Kaharon]

Basically that = remove any and all meaningful choice of professions. we give up on balancing them like we did on classes and specs, so fuck it, everyone can have nothing and everyone can have everything...yet another choice leading me away from buying WOD..been gone 2 months now and nothing announced so far to draw me back. More homogenization=bad

less homogenization? most raiders actually chose profession for their benefits, it was not really a personal preference, you just picked the ones you were supposed to for maximum benefit. You and every other guy with their damn rose-tinted glasses. You should start thinking before making posts like yours, but I can't actually expect people to think in those forums, where 50% of the forum users are just bashing on WoW because they got hurt while playing this game and now just visit the forums to bash on the game just for the sake of bashing and to let the tears flow and their frustration out.

Why can't people see benefit in free choice rather than getting their professions chosen for them by their benefits to dps/tank/hps.

[ArchitechSK]

Also the trinket while only 620 ilvl serms to be the best preraid option at the moment (unless PvP trinkets are available for int/int proc) since it is the only int proc at the moment. I'm really considering dropping engi for Alch, Polar is right, the helm doesn't seem worth it with the amount of time to get it maxed, we're likely best off going tailoring/alch and dumping mats into a pair of pants and a trinket.

Also worth considering is inscription for pre raid staff (the big caveats here is I have not looked for alternatives nor if it it is possible to obtain before raids)

[Deleted]

Most of the craftables are pretty much useless for very high end raiding due to how long they will take to make. The double flask duration to save gold is also pretty pointless since most 25 man guilds will have 10mill+ gold anyway. Honestly, professions are no longer truly required for raiding. Maybe if you're extremely unlucky the craftables will help you, but if I'm correct, the craftables only go upto heroic ilvl? Which you can be fully geared in after like 1-2 resets, at which point you won't even have been able to craft a singhle BoE then.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I honestly haven't put much effort into researching the exact timeframes/ilvls of crafted items ,just that they take months to get/max out.

[Frost1129]

Most of the craftables are pretty much useless for very high end raiding due to how long they will take to make. The double flask duration to save gold is also pretty pointless since most 25 man guilds will have 10mill+ gold anyway. Honestly, professions are no longer truly required for raiding. Maybe if you're extremely unlucky the craftables will help you, but if I'm correct, the craftables only go upto heroic ilvl? Which you can be fully geared in after like 1-2 resets, at which point you won't even have been able to craft a singhle BoE then.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I honestly haven't put much effort into researching the exact timeframes/ilvls of crafted items ,just that they take months to get/max out.

They only go up to normal mode ilvl, actually.

[MrExcelion]

I agree that professions are not as big of deal as a whole, but it's all relative. Nerf everything down and people will still find ways to min/max it for goldmaking/convenience purposes, like with Mixology. Wouldn't be much of an issue if flasks were as easy to obtain as the MoP ones, but yeah, looking pretty expensive.

[Polarthief]

I agree that professions are not as big of deal as a whole, but it's all relative. Nerf everything down and people will still find ways to min/max it for goldmaking/convenience purposes, like with Mixology. Wouldn't be much of an issue if flasks were as easy to obtain as the MoP ones, but yeah, looking pretty expensive.

Catalysts are easier to get, but just take time, so... your call. It's less effort but more time consuming.

[Alroxas]

Update: Did some extra looking-into on Alchemy, and wow, wasn't even aware how wonky flasks will be. Daily cooldown at skill 600 = 10 catalysts: 5 to make 5 lesser flasks, and another 5 + those flasks (and a sorc water or fire) to make 5 greater flasks (greater flasks come with an extra 25% of the stat). In addition, all flasks now only give main stats (STR, AGI, INT, STA), as opposed to lesser flasks giving secondary stats, which I'm guessing is new as of the latest build. If Mixology does in fact work (only as 2x duration) in WoD, Alchemy will be a great profession to have for pretty much any raider.

I believe they reverted the change in flasks (both lesser and greater) because of stacking secondaries became too unbalanced for several classes/specs.

Additionally, did you see how fishing is necessary part for alchemy? Seems like WoD is leaning heavily into tying professions together.

Also enchanting will still be fairly valuable. On the beta we are spoiled because of that vendor giving us enchants for free.

[Polarthief]

I believe they reverted the change in flasks (both lesser and greater) because of stacking secondaries became too unbalanced for several classes/specs.

Additionally, did you see how fishing is necessary part for alchemy? Seems like WoD is leaning heavily into tying professions together.

Also enchanting will still be fairly valuable. On the beta we are spoiled because of that vendor giving us enchants for free.

I assumed so, especially with everyone changing the gem formula for Primaries to Secondaries in MoP

Yeah, fuck that. Might just drop Alchemy now or buy all my fish (and meat, or get a barn). They shouldn't make Fishing mandatory unless they make it more fun (also because some professions outside of Cooking requires meat, the Barn really shouldn't be a medium plot; should be a bonus plot you don't have to choose; seems too mandatory). Also, leveled Tailoring to 600 last night and my bank alt is littered with a crapton of greens (mailed him ALL my greens leveling up Tailoring!), so leveling Enchanting will be pretty effortless.

I know it will, but I can't tell if it's better or worse than Alchemy or Tailoring.

[Deleted]

450 Gearspring Parts = 45 days at max ENG or 112.5 days at minimal ENG to get the fully upgraded 675 goggles (+1-2.5 days per reroll of the secondary stats) when MC will be out the 2nd week of WoD for a free helm immediately, and raiding will replace the ENG helm.

Are you saying it will take 45-112 days to craft 675 googles? Did you also add gearspring parts from Garnison work orders to your calculation?

I'm not up to date to be honest.

edit: and what do you mean by "free helm after 2nd week of WoD"?

[Deleted]

So here are my impressions on tailoring from the current beta build:

You can craft epic gear with ilvl 640. You can upgrade it to 655 and another time to 665.
Raidfinder gear is ilvl650.
raid-fucking-finder gear is higher itemlvl than crafted items, which require mats that you'll need days to get together (100 hexweave cloth, 10 pc per day at 700/700 + the ones your tailoring emporium produces).

The first "upgrade item" needs 1,5x as much hexweave cloth than the item itself, in addition to that you'll need Savage Blood.
To get ilvl 665 = normal raid quality items, you need the second upgrade item, which needs 200 hexweave cloth and again, savage blood (nasty to farm, proably the most expensive material in this tier of the exp)

From what i have seen...tailoring is not worth the effort, if you don't REALLY want the pet or the mount.
Don't take me wrong, i like being tailor, i am one since vanilla. But it's simply not economic now - it doesn't make any sense :>

Let's say with max tailoring and garrison building you get 15 hexweave cloth per day, as stated above you'll need 450 for an ilvlv 665 item.
It will take you a whole month to get that item. By the time when three months have passed, a majority of the players just won't need those 665 items anymore, because heroic item lvl is 680 - so if you plan on raiding, don't bother tailoring... -.-

If the tailoring system goes live as it is now, the following scenario is most likely to happen:
X=Dayx, Y= Amount of hexweave cloth from garrison

Day 1: You start WoD leveling. 5+Y Hexweave Cloth
Day X: You reach lvl 100. 5+Y Hexwave Cloth*X

Let's say it takes you 5 days for leveling to 100. As your tailoring skill now is at 610, you dont get an increased production of hexweave yet.
We assume you get 5 Hexweave per day out of your garrison (quite realistic amount)

so we have (5+5)*5 hexweave cloth at lvl 100.
Then you upgrade your garrison building, get a follower into it...
Day 5: 50 Hexweave cloth.
Day 6: 5+8 HW cloth
On day 9 you have your first ilvl 640 item.

As you tailoring skill increases, you get more HW cloth now.

Day 14: Raid finder opens. you get 1 item this ID.
Day 21: 2nd raid finder wing opens, you're lucky and get 2 items this id.
You can now chose if you upgrade your first crafted item, or go for another one - you save the hexcloth, knowing your drop "luck".
Day 28: You start normal raiding, you get a 665 item for the slot where you wear your crafted epic.
You have a lot of hexweave cloth, but not enough to make a 665 item.

etc.


By the time when you have enough mats to get the 665 crafted items, it'll only be a minor upgrade, compared to the effort and cost (selling furs is gonna be profitable)

The question "Why?" arises. Sure, if you like tailoring, do it. I'll continue it too, even if it isn't economic or sth. But imo, blizz messed it up pretty hard. The feeling "hey i can craft sth. that makes me more powerful" is just gone.

If they don't lower the mat cost...tailoring will die. Except for the bags...


yeah...imma mage, i can make food, water and bags.

-.-

[Deleted]

Is there a min maxing value in any profession? as in getting items quicker... or is it all about gold. Might aswell keep engineer for the funsies.

[Polarthief]

Is there a min maxing value in any profession? as in getting items quicker... or is it all about gold. Might aswell keep engineer for the funsies.

All about gold and what you want to make. Something to keep in mind that Flasks and Gems will require BoP items to make (BoP from their own profession to craft daily). Enchanting is still fully non-bound.

ENG has almost nothing exclusive except Bling 5k (which anyone can use, only ENGs can drop it), Bling 4k (same), and Nitro Boosts (which is crap). The only advantage they get is not having to pay every time they use a mailbox or bank/repair guy or other alike item.

[Deleted]

The real kicker are the random stats on the item. If you're unlucky you could get spirit/versatility as your two secondary stats. There is an item that allows you to re-roll it but it requires hexweave cloth which puts your next items further away.

[Polarthief]

The real kicker are the random stats on the item. If you're unlucky you could get spirit/versatility as your two secondary stats. There is an item that allows you to re-roll it but it requires hexweave cloth which puts your next items further away.

You won't ever get Spirit on a crafted piece, unless it's a cloak, necklace, trinket, or ring (at least I believe you won't. Pretty sure they will only roll based on your spec). Now if you send said item to a healer-specced character and they reroll it, then it can roll Spirit.

[Deleted]

You won't ever get Spirit on a crafted piece, unless it's a cloak, necklace, trinket, or ring (at least I believe you won't. Pretty sure they will only roll based on your spec). Now if you send said item to a healer-specced character and they reroll it, then it can roll Spirit.

Ah you're right, I forgot about it, so it can only proc on your cloak. I've had spirit and bonus armor procs on my JC necks crafted as a mage though, so I expect it to be possible to get spirit on your hexweave cloak. My point still stands, you could spend a lot of effort on an item and then get a crappy roll that includes versatility.

[Polarthief]

Ah you're right, I forgot about it, so it can only proc on your cloak. I've had spirit and bonus armor procs on my JC necks crafted as a mage though, so I expect it to be possible to get spirit on your hexweave cloak. My point still stands, you could spend a lot of effort on an item and then get a crappy roll that includes versatility.

Cloak and Jewelry, definitely, but not the rest of the armor.

Well, at least Spirit won't be a possibility

[Deleted]

Think I'm still gonna drop BS for Tailoring regardless. muh bags.

[Polarthief]

Think I'm still gonna drop BS for Tailoring regardless. muh bags.

I did the same! Though Bags will never have been less important due to Toybox, extra Void Storage tab, and Reagent Bank, plus they're working on a Transmog system (methinks you scrap an item to then "collect" it), but no official word on that yet.

[Wilderness]

By the time when you have enough mats to get the 665 crafted items, it'll only be a minor upgrade, compared to the effort and cost (selling furs is gonna be profitable)

The question "Why?" arises. Sure, if you like tailoring, do it. I'll continue it too, even if it isn't economic or sth. But imo, blizz messed it up pretty hard. The feeling "hey i can craft sth. that makes me more powerful" is just gone.

If they don't lower the mat cost...tailoring will die. Except for the bags...

Its not going to die, it just might not be that useful for crafting gear for people who are going to do their best to gear up quickly and hop into Mythic as soon as possible. But for a large, large group of people who play and raid at other levels below Mythic the craftable gear is going to be good. I expect that most of the professions that craft stuff won't be that great for people rushing into Mythic as soon as they can, but that the items that upgrade the craftable gear to be rather profitable for quite a while into the tier. I could be wrong of course, and they could still change the mats required for various craftable gear, but just because that gear may not be useful for upgrades to more cutting edge raiders doesn't mean that there will be no market for it.

The obvious professions change for WoD is the removal of the combat perks in order to make them not part of raiding or pvp min/max'ing, and I think that the cost and time to make craftable gear is a deliberate decision based on that same sort of philosophy. Its not the end of the world for tailoring, or any other profession. All of these sorts of changes, along with the introduction of Garrisons, is going to change around how we make gold and change some of the markets that have been relatively similar throughout previous expansions, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't mind having craftable gear be more of a back-up if you have bad luck with drops initially or if you start progress later or go slower.

[Polarthief]

Its not the end of the world for tailoring, or any other profession.

Gonna have to disagree for Engineering. Goggles being the only real benefit since Nitro Boosts is nerfed to the ground, and even worse is that it takes up a tier slot, forcing you to get all 4 of the other pieces if you want your 4P (which as a Mage, you'd be insane to not go for for any spec).

But yes, the crafted seem to be aimed at more casual/lesser skilled/geared raiders.