Moonkin patchnotes

[Lilija]

Imo the main reason why movement dps is shit, is because we are not refreshing dots. Previously when you were casting dots on the move you were always refreshing them. In the WoD system, movement has to come at specific moments in the eclipse rotation to actually give you a refresh (like in lunar eclipse Before you hit peak). Otherwise all you are getting as a benefit is the initial damage, since the refresh times are pretty much set in stone with little flexibility.

Ehh... no? Refreshing DoTs on movement in MoP wasn't even an option as due to snapshotting it was mostly a dps loss. Our main movement mechanic was Shooting Stars which did well (espcially later in the expantion when it had high proc rate) since SS was significant dmg. As now DoTs are our main movement dps mechanic snapshotting had to go away as it was leaving us with nothing.

[Deleted]

Like seriously, Im probably just gonna quit writing here. Seems to be pointless.

It's the internet

However, I am probably not the only one who enjoys your insight and values your opinion.

[mikoslav]

It's the internet

However, I am probably not the only one who enjoys your insight and values your opinion.

I enjoy Lappee's opinions, I just dont see any reason why there should be no discussion in reference to them

[Deleted]

I enjoy Lappee's opinions, I just dont see any reason why there should be no discussion in reference to them

Sure there can be discussion However, I think people really need to relax a little more. Those 50 pages of "Druid too strong, Why nerf Warrior!?!!" posts on the Blizzard forums were more than amusing

Let's just see how the class balance is once the raids go live at 100. Who cares for the last raid lockout at 90.

As for the changes, I don't really know what dmgbuff is needed and what is over the top. Standstill dps was never so great with the owl, multidotting is usually quite good. Starfall change might be a little over the top, but we will see how it's gonna play out.

One thing I didn't enjoy was the "SS now has a casttime" change, which will be reverted later. Taking it back, just to give it back a few levels later? Meh.

[Deleted]

atleast you guys have tranq

[mikoslav]

atleast you guys have tranq

We dont anymore. Short post, and not much in it.

[Miraclous]

Ehh... no? Refreshing DoTs on movement in MoP wasn't even an option as due to snapshotting it was mostly a dps loss. Our main movement mechanic was Shooting Stars which did well (espcially later in the expantion when it had high proc rate) since SS was significant dmg. As now DoTs are our main movement dps mechanic snapshotting had to go away as it was leaving us with nothing.

You could pretty much always spam atleast 1 dot with added refreshing benefit, sometimes both. Even at the very end of the expansion SS procs still weren't a reliable way for movement dps though a good filler when it did proc. Also lunar shower helped, but that's gone/reworked as well. For WoD movement it's good snapshotting is gone, but the fixed eclipse rotation makes real refreshing pretty unlikely.

[mercychan]

I ran some tests on the Beta to try to approximate at what points on the eclipse bar Wrath becomes stronger than Starfire and vice versa.

Stats
--------
11.66% Crit
9.43% Haste
47.08% Mastery
8.18% Multistrike (the data below excludes all multistrike damage)


I took the damage done by Starfire and Wrath and divided them by their cast times to find their effective DPS at several points on the eclipse bar. I recorded five values for each data point and threw the averages (in thousands) into excel and came up with this:



Which shows that:
1) Starfire remains stronger than Wrath until about 1/5th of the way into solar.
2) an empowered Starfire (with SotF) remains stronger than an unempowered Wrath 3/4th of the way into solar.
3) an empowered Wrath (with SotF) remains stronger than an unempowered Starfire 2/3s of the way into lunar.

And without SotF you can see these positions shift toward the center of the eclipse bar:


Tests were done without any of the proc enchants on my weapon for better precision. Keep in mind that damage is calculated when your spell cast finishes and not when you start casting it.

[Commandor]

+1 for hyperbole without any data to back up your statements.

Also you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth...A few pages earlier in this very thread, this was you:



Now you are saying that the moonkin buffs were not needed? Practice logic much?


Oh and btw Blizz addressed the simcraft result copy/pasting specifically here:




Frankly I don't know if these buffs for moonkin were needed or not at level 100 but I think it would be best to get there first and see firsthand before jumping to unfounded conclusions.

GJ man calling out the trolls ...

I just can't get my head around how much everyone things the %75 buff to starfall is going to contribute to our total DPS! As I mentioned earlier it is going to be really interesting to see our "real" performance compared to other classes 1 month into raids, thats when we can truly evaluate our performance on a much clearer scale than what beta offered.

[xtramuscle]

GJ man calling out the trolls ...

I just can't get my head around how much everyone things the %75 buff to starfall is going to contribute to our total DPS! As I mentioned earlier it is going to be really interesting to see our "real" performance compared to other classes 1 month into raids, thats when we can truly evaluate our performance on a much clearer scale than what beta offered.

Except starfall is now better on 2 targets, and there is almost no patchwerk fights in WOD making it the go to spell for most if not all fights. I just hope we have enough paladins int he raid to keep salvs on me on beast lord.

[Commandor]

Except starfall is now better on 2 targets, and there is almost no patchwerk fights in WOD making it the go to spell for most if not all fights. I just hope we have enough paladins int he raid to keep salvs on me on beast lord.

Unless they improve Single target mechanics, let the emp buff have a component for Starsurge or bring Starsurge/Starfire/Wrath/Direct component of Sunfire and Moonfire (any not all necessarily) up and lower Starfall.

There are many ways to do it and Im sure this is temporary until they have a better feeling of the direction.

[Erdluf]

1) Starfire remains stronger than Wrath until about 1/5th of the way into solar.

Realize that point will move, depending on the amount of mastery you have.

Note that 1/5 "power" is not the same as 1/5 "time." It isn't clear which you are talking about. For a time chart, curves should be steepest in the middle, and flat at the edges. For a power chart, curves should be linear. I see neither.

[mercychan]

The independent variable is eclipse power, sorry I should have specified that.

The graphs are DPS(e) vs. Eclipse Power and this relationship is non-linear in practice. This is because when you cast a spell at an arbitrary point on the eclipse bar it can return a value (deal damage) within a range of values (the calculation of this value depends on your eclipse power, as well as other stats (which are held constant)).

[Lilija]

You could pretty much always spam atleast 1 dot with added refreshing benefit, sometimes both. Even at the very end of the expansion SS procs still weren't a reliable way for movement dps though a good filler when it did proc. Also lunar shower helped, but that's gone/reworked as well. For WoD movement it's good snapshotting is gone, but the fixed eclipse rotation makes real refreshing pretty unlikely.

Mate, you DID NOT spam dots if you'd overwrite the stronger one. I've got an addon that tarcks DoT power and there was hardly a window while movement when refreshing DoTs mid time was benefitial in any way. It was better to cast nothing than to overwrite a stronger DoT. Also, instant SS was up most of the time in BiS gear.

[Deleted]

I ran some tests on the Beta to try to approximate at what points on the eclipse bar Wrath becomes stronger than Starfire and vice versa.

Stats
--------
11.66% Crit
9.43% Haste
47.08% Mastery
8.18% Multistrike (the data below excludes all multistrike damage)


I took the damage done by Starfire and Wrath and divided them by their cast times to find their effective DPS at several points on the eclipse bar. I recorded five values for each data point and threw the averages (in thousands) into excel and came up with this:



Which shows that:
1) Starfire remains stronger than Wrath until about 1/5th of the way into solar.
2) an empowered Starfire (with SotF) remains stronger than an unempowered Wrath 3/4th of the way into solar.
3) an empowered Wrath (with SotF) remains stronger than an unempowered Starfire 2/3s of the way into lunar.

And without SotF you can see these positions shift toward the center of the eclipse bar:


Tests were done without any of the proc enchants on my weapon for better precision. Keep in mind that damage is calculated when your spell lands and not when you start casting it.

This is all very interesting but unless something changed and nothing was said the damage of a spell is calculated the moment you fire it off (when the cast is finished but before it lands) if this is still the case which im 99% certain it is then this whole experiment is flawed based on your belief that damage is calculated when a spell lands.

[Deleted]

I have really important question, we all know that there is no haste goal to reach, dots benifits from current haste instead when dot was applied.

How is going to eclipse work with this information? If I cast Sunfire when I enter solar, will tick do max dmg when I m at 100 energy solar? or I need to refresh dots at peak eclipse every time?

[Deleted]

I have really important question, we all know that there is no haste goal to reach, dots benifits from current haste instead when dot was applied.

How is going to eclipse work with this information? If I cast Sunfire when I enter solar, will tick do max dmg when I m at 100 energy solar? or I need to refresh dots at peak eclipse every time?

They removed snapshotting so only the initial u front damage is gained by casting your dot at peak. You should be aiming to refresh your dots at peak but I guess if you've alreay got dots up that will last a full cycle then it'd be a DPS loss to refresh them again. Could be wrong very new to boomy but thats the way it makes sense to me

[Deleted]

I hope you are right, if we will need to refresh dots at peak our cycle will be one big mess, I think initial dmg is not that much of a big deal.

[Deleted]

I hope you are right, if we will need to refresh dots at peak our cycle will be one big mess, I think initial dmg is not that much of a big deal.

The way I understand is that it's a very minor increase to refresh at peak (assuming you didn't already recently refresh them)

[Juvencus]

pretty graphs

The devs basically foresaw for the situations where you cast a late SS and have opposite empowerments when entering a new eclipse, so you don't have to waste them (although most of the times they last so long you can save them for when you go back to the respective eclipse).

It also helps answer another age-long question "Should I cancel my Starfire?". We pretty much don't want to cancel casts when switching eclipses.


@ItcheeBeard I don't see any mention of travel times.