Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[TZucchini]

That's the point. Gun owners are responsible...until they're not. Gun owners are law abiding...until they're not.

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I'm showing the elusive DGU that never happens.

Who said DGU's never happen?

[Stormdash]

That's the point. Gun owners are responsible...until they're not. Gun owners are law abiding...until they're not.

Which of course be said of anyone who owns or operates anything that when misused can be dangerous to self or others. Although we sit here in a world where things like soda portions and table salt and kinder eggs are deemed too dangerous for mere peons to be trusted with, I can see why it's so difficult to explain the risks of messy liberty on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.

[Tinykong]

One killed, three injured, in Shreveport shooting.

One-year-old child fatally shot when dozens of shots were fired at his house.

Three men were shot when an argument broke out over $3.

33-year-old responsible mother accidentally shot her 9 year old daughter in the leg.

These were all in the past day. I could go on and on and on.

"One of the teenagers, a 16-year-old, was arrested yesterday and faces a charge of illegal use of a weapon and one count of possession of a stolen firearm."

"Police say dozens of gunshots were fired at the home. Capt. Aaron Rapp says more than one gun was involved in the barrage of gunfire."

"The weapon was a .357 revolver and we are still seeking an automatic weapon related to the case."

"All testimony and physical evidence point to an accidental shooting and foul play is not suspected at this time,” Arango said. “[The Department of Children and Families] has been notified and will follow-up with the family since they live in Jacksonville. There are no criminal charges at this time since the shooting was accidental."

I've got an idea, let's post links to situations that would not be prevented by gun control legislation. That'll be productive.

[Zenfoldor]

That's the point. Gun owners are responsible...until they're not. Gun owners are law abiding...until they're not.

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Who said DGU's never happen?

This thread is a lot more civil lately.

Both sides are firmly planted though. It's a waste of time to try and prove things. Can't prove a negative, can't prove deterrence figures, can't prove if guns in the hands of the police or military save or endanger lives.

Sounds contrived, but it's like trying to prove one religion is right and another is wrong. You just can't really do it and you won't get any converts.

I, personally, don't agree with you but I appreciate your input.

I will throw this out there. I believe that stronger support for gun rights comes from a larger push for gun control. Ironic, but that's my suspicion.

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[QUOTE=Tinykong;31418958]"One of the teenagers, a 16-year-old, was arrested yesterday and faces a charge of illegal use of a weapon and one count of possession of a stolen firearm."

"Police say dozens of gunshots were fired at the home. Capt. Aaron Rapp says more than one gun was involved in the barrage of gunfire."

"The weapon was a .357 revolver and we are still seeking an automatic weapon related to the case."

"All testimony and physical evidence point to an accidental shooting and foul play is not suspected at this time,” Arango said. “[The Department of Children and Families] has been notified and will follow-up with the family since they live in Jacksonville. There are no criminal charges at this time since the shooting was accidental."

US will never see confiscation.

High round count and "shoulder thing that goes up" legislation is particularly useless. Banning an AR15 and not a Mini14 or a pump action 12 gauge is ludicrous. Particularly since handguns are the primary weapon choice of criminals and suicides, yet rifles take all the heat.

[petej0]

Which of course be said of anyone who owns or operates anything that when misused can be dangerous to self or others. Although we sit here in a world where things like soda portions and table salt and kinder eggs are deemed too dangerous for mere peons to be trusted with, I can see why it's so difficult to explain the risks of messy liberty on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.

Oh...my...god! I love kinder eggs. They were my favorite junk food when I discovered them while I was stationed in Germany. It wasnt until later that I found out they are banned from sale in the US.

[TZucchini]

I've got an idea, let's post links to situations that would not be prevented by gun control legislation. That'll be productive.

It's not like safe storage laws could help prevent firearm theft.

Or mandatory training could help prevent accidental discharges.

Head in the sand.

[Tinykong]

It's not like safe storage laws could help prevent firearm theft.

Or mandatory training could help prevent accidental discharges.

Oh, I didn't realize we were just saying stuff that could happen without actually having to prove it will work.

Head in the sand.

How's the weather down there? Pretty consistent I'd imagine.

[TZucchini]

Oh, I didn't realize we were just saying stuff that could happen without actually having to prove it will work.

It's almost like keeping something in a locked safe will help reduce theft.

[petej0]

It's not like safe storage laws could help prevent firearm theft.

Or mandatory training could help prevent accidental discharges.

Head in the sand.

Safe storage laws are no good if people dont follow them.

Mandatory training doesnt help if an untrained person handles them.

Note, I am on board with both, however I do realize that only mandatory training can be effectively enforced.

[Tinykong]

It's almost like keeping something in a locked safe will help reduce theft.

Right, because a law that says you have to keep your guns locked up is enforceable.

Do they really scare you that much? I mean, I hope you're not losing sleep over it. Might want to see a doctor if it's causing you this much discomfort.

[TZucchini]

Right, because a law that says you have to keep your guns locked up is enforceable.

Oh good. We're moving the goal posts from "You haven't proved it will work" to "It's not enforceable!!!"

Here's one study that found "firearm theft rates were dramatically lower in States with safe storage laws."

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Safe storage laws are no good if people dont follow them.

You could say that about every single law on the books. What's your point?

[Tinykong]

Oh good. We're moving the goal posts from "You haven't proved it will work" to "It's not enforceable!!!"

Here's one study that found "firearm theft rates were dramatically lower in States with safe storage laws."

Spotlight fallacy, away!

[TZucchini]

Spotlight fallacy, away!

It's OK, Tiny. I knew you didn't have an actual substantive rebuttal to the evidence provided. Just jump on the fallacy train, when no fallacy was committed. Predictable.

[petej0]

You could say that about every single law on the books. What's your point?

If people feel they wont be caught, they wont obey it. That is my point.

[Tinykong]

It's OK, Tiny. I knew you didn't have an actual substantive rebuttal to the evidence provided. Just jump on the fallacy train, when no fallacy was committed.

You provided no evidence of the claim you made. You showed that state's with safe storage laws have lower rates of firearm theft.

You didn't prove that safe storage laws reduce firearm thefts. You used a spotlight fallacy to make that generalization.

Which is:

Predictable.

hurr durr

[petej0]

You provided no evidence of the claim you made. You showed that state's with safe storage laws have lower rates of firearm theft.

You didn't prove that safe storage laws reduce firearm thefts.

Yeah, was it that firearms are being stored safely or that criminals know that if they do steal a firearm that pawnshops wont buy them?

What use is stealing something you cant sell or have a hard time selling?

[Tinykong]

Yeah, was it that firearms are being stored safely or that criminals know that if they do steal a firearm that pawnshops wont buy them?

What use is stealing something you cant sell or have a hard time selling?

It's just typical PRE-911 Letmegooglethat linking. Go find an abstract that fits the argument, and link it and claim science denial when anyone disagrees.

[TZucchini]

You provided no evidence of the claim you made. You showed that state's with safe storage laws have lower rates of firearm theft.

You didn't prove that safe storage laws reduce firearm thefts. You used a spotlight fallacy to make that generalization.

You seem to be embarrassingly confused. I did provide evidence for the claim. I didn't prove the claim to be true.

Since I've provided evidence for the claim, and you've provided nothing but failed claims of fallacy, I'd say I've got a leg up.

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If people feel they wont be caught, they wont obey it. That is my point.

So people only obey laws when they feel they might get caught?

[Tinykong]

You seem to be embarrassingly confused. I did provide evidence for the claim. I didn't prove the claim to be true.

Since I've provided evidence for the claim, and you've provided nothing but failed claims of fallacy, I'd say I've got a leg up.

You provided a tenuous correlative link that doesn't prove the claim you made. Is that seriously the best you can do these days?

Talk about embarrassing.

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So people only obey laws when they feel they might get caught?

Safe storage laws are completely unenforceable. You're relying on people doing the right thing because they want to.

[Stormdash]

Safe storage laws are also useless if they render the gun functionally inaccessible or inoperable at the very moment it will be needed.

Training is not as rare as many seem to think. Even in "shall issue" states, someone that wants to carry is most likely going to need to show completion of some sort of basic gun safety course. Not sure there is a problem that need an additional training requirement, let alone a federal one, to solve. Too often it seems the real point of the exercise is to render lawful ownership of a gun so impractical, so wrought with legal uncertainty, that citizens simply abandon the notion altogether.