"We get a lot of positive feedback about Arms"

[senturion]

Arms is pretty complicated for a supposedly easy spec..

Anyone knows if there is an addon that binds the keys all into one button to push?

[Gandrake]

It's not very healthy, especially since it causes cases like this when you think this microscopically small circle of players represents the end-all-be-all.

Why would anyone who spends more time pet battling and playing garrison matter more than people who dedicate to playing endgame? you could give them any class' spells, call it a warrior, and as long as they had charge they would be happy - they don't give a fuck.

I'm already burnt out, been burnt out, stopped logging in to do anything but raid weeks ago. challenge modes? yea i ain't doing it for those garbage looking weapons and a yeti they were too lazy to remodel. i get annoyed just helping my guild out with them. damage output balanced around a stun and execute, but no one else is! Their execute is available sooner and for free too and are just as powerful as execute.

dont even get me started on garrisons, they were worked on harder than this class was.

i almost wanna play my ret but i dont have the money to buy another scabbard. Even if I did tho, why bother? they will probably nerf it again except this time it will be just for the lulz

[Cosmoz]

The 15-16% voting "yes" are flat out trolls or just delusional!

Spec is horrible at the moment.

[Sliske]

As frost dk i use obli, frost strike and howling + PS to refresh dot and i enjoy it, why does rotations have to have 100 abilities/buttons in order for you guys to find it fun?

Arms and Fury had one of the highest APMs in the game. We have had 1 spec be reduced to mindlessness were once it was the most methodical spec in the game (fury) and the other we've had reduced to vanilla ret paladin level of boring. This is like the Treaty of Versailles only we're warriors not Germans and we've done fuck all wrong.

Your frost dk has has 3-4 spells consistantly since you started played it (Albeit in WoTLK dks were a lot different, so, from Cata, like 5 years ago.) Much like Dks, we warriors saw what warriors had to offer and the consistancy of it. Arms being mindless fun since Vanilla to Late Cata, then briefly transforming into a somewhat skilled spec, then back to mindless fun. Those who picked up arms got what they paid (read: chose) for. If you picked up a fury warrior in vanilla you were in it for the mindless big damage fun with little utility and more of a selfish playstyle. You were the powerhouse. If you picked it up in MoP, you probably would've been mislead thinking it was still like that, but regardless, MoP fury's methodical gameplay transformed decent players into extremely good players.

Anyone who has gotten rank 1-10 parses as fury in 25H in MoP could easily go and master another spec within a few days. The value of that is unquestionable. Regardless, we're back to the 'mindless fun' playstyle. Some of us however, myself included, after playing such a methodical spec, feel alienated returning to the button mashing playstyle of current fury.

Most people would agree that consistency is pretty much the #1 thing people look for. When you look for a guild, you look for consistant raids. You don't want a guild that formed 2 weeks ago. You want a guild that has raided for years and missed none or few raids. When you look for a class, you want one that has been consistently good throughout wows history. Likewise, consistency is important for playstyle. Reducing the APM of arms in half is effectively making them play a new class as their main over night.

Don't get me wrong. Don't think i'm being dramatic. Every class and spec has went through huge overhauls, some good, some bad. This one just happens to be a bad one. The fury one is questionable. The arms one, there can be no doubt. You can make a class use spells in a different order. You can remove an add spells. You can't just take 50% of a classes actions, throw them in the bin and think it will be fine.

The 'ability prune' was there so i didn't have to have demoralizing shout on my bars, or so i didn't have to have hamstring when i had piercing howl already. or so monks didnt have to press legacy of the emporer AND legacy of the white tiger. It wasn't there to take rotation abilities. Its the ability 'prune' which many classes got. Warriors got ability gutted.

[Bethrezen]

To me, if you play the specc as it was designed for, IE, Aoe cleave pve/PVP 2+ targets, it is hella fun, and works fine.

But if you try to use it for single target? It feels like a garbage specc that shouldn't have passed beta.

[Deleted]

Arms and Fury had one of the highest APMs in the game. We have had 1 spec be reduced to mindlessness were once it was the most methodical spec in the game (fury) and the other we've had reduced to vanilla ret paladin level of boring. This is like the Treaty of Versailles only we're warriors not Germans and we've done fuck all wrong.

Your frost dk has has 3-4 spells consistantly since you started played it (Albeit in WoTLK dks were a lot different, so, from Cata, like 5 years ago.) Much like Dks, we warriors saw what warriors had to offer and the consistancy of it. Arms being mindless fun since Vanilla to Late Cata, then briefly transforming into a somewhat skilled spec, then back to mindless fun. Those who picked up arms got what they paid (read: chose) for. If you picked up a fury warrior in vanilla you were in it for the mindless big damage fun with little utility and more of a selfish playstyle. You were the powerhouse. If you picked it up in MoP, you probably would've been mislead thinking it was still like that, but regardless, MoP fury's methodical gameplay transformed decent players into extremely good players.

Anyone who has gotten rank 1-10 parses as fury in 25H in MoP could easily go and master another spec within a few days. The value of that is unquestionable. Regardless, we're back to the 'mindless fun' playstyle. Some of us however, myself included, after playing such a methodical spec, feel alienated returning to the button mashing playstyle of current fury.

Most people would agree that consistency is pretty much the #1 thing people look for. When you look for a guild, you look for consistant raids. You don't want a guild that formed 2 weeks ago. You want a guild that has raided for years and missed none or few raids. When you look for a class, you want one that has been consistently good throughout wows history. Likewise, consistency is important for playstyle. Reducing the APM of arms in half is effectively making them play a new class as their main over night.

Don't get me wrong. Don't think i'm being dramatic. Every class and spec has went through huge overhauls, some good, some bad. This one just happens to be a bad one. The fury one is questionable. The arms one, there can be no doubt. You can make a class use spells in a different order. You can remove an add spells. You can't just take 50% of a classes actions, throw them in the bin and think it will be fine.

The 'ability prune' was there so i didn't have to have demoralizing shout on my bars, or so i didn't have to have hamstring when i had piercing howl already. or so monks didnt have to press legacy of the emporer AND legacy of the white tiger. It wasn't there to take rotation abilities. Its the ability 'prune' which many classes got. Warriors got ability gutted.

Never understood why ppl rag on the "new" FUry so much tbh. Its exactly the way a fury specc should be imo, proc based and spammy. Arms would be fine as a "slower " specc if it involved a bit more then using 3 skills I think. But personally Id want it to be faster asweel, warriors are fast paced action machines! Ret pala mroe fits the big hits/slower gameplay imo.

[Sliske]

Never understood why ppl rag on the "new" FUry so much tbh. Its exactly the way a fury specc should be imo, proc based and spammy. Arms would be fine as a "slower " specc if it involved a bit more then using 3 skills I think. But personally Id want it to be faster asweel, warriors are fast paced action machines! Ret pala mroe fits the big hits/slower gameplay imo.

I don't raid mythic(heroic) anymore, i just lol my way through heroic with a bunch of friends, but at least for me, when I got rank 1-5 parses on 25H bosses during progression in TOT / SoO i felt good knowing not only I doing extremely well at the fight, but I was also doing extremely well at one of the hardest specs in the game, if not the hardest one.

I personally think WoTLK fury was prime. I don't think WoW is a skill based game at all in PvE, more gathering of information and recognizing where to apply that information.

The question of MoP fury vs WoD fury is completely opinion based. They both do similar APMs, MoP fury doing probably like 20% more due to do HS. I just was using fury as an example of how to revamp a spec against what they have done to arms, which is almost universally frowned upon. To repeat from my last post, you can change a spec a lot, but you cannot tell a bunch of warriors who were getting carpel tunnel and loving it to suddenly do nothing 26 seconds out of every minute. The only blunder worse than WoD Arms is probably the entire ret spec since its inception.

As I said earlier, and as I have heard many people say as well; They announced the ability prune, started on arms and said "ok, we're done." Rets play almost exactly the same. WW plays almost exactly the same. Enh plays exactly the same. Mage plays almost exactly the same. etc.

I don't think any other class had not one but two of their most used spells removed. It would be like if they removed backstab and ambush and made sub rogues Fan of Knives as filler. It is a complete abomination. A joke, an utter joke.

The thread's quote's source is also a joke, I can't find it, but in the source they continued on after the thread title to say "people say it reminds them of tbc"

No. Nonononono.

Go watch literally any video of arms in TBC. First, you will notice it is PVP. Second, you will notice they aren't spamming WW. Third, you will notice WW hits like a freight train. Anyone who played WoTLK remembers divine storm. It is currently like that too, tbh. Well, WW was on par with WoTLK divine storm in vanilla, tbc and wotlk. In Cata it got gutted and hits for the same as auto attacks. I remember seeing 12k main hand WWs in pvp in WoTLK on fury warriors with shadowmourne and glorenzelg. Do you want to know how much it hits now ?



And for the mentally impaired, yes, i know about the stat squish. While i hit a combined total of 11.2k with 2 hits and 4 multistrikes with a single whirlwind, I hit 170k+ with execute. Execute did not do 17 times more damage than WW in vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata or mop. It is a complete spit in the face to say that arms plays anything like TBC.

Utter shambles

[Theratzil]

Fury hardest in MoP ? Lol what spec were you playing.

[Sliske]

Fury hardest in MoP ? Lol what spec were you playing.

That a trick question? I played fury. Your first sentence has to assume i played fury in order for you to say it. Then you ask me what spec i played?

[Deleted]

Fury hardest in MoP ? Lol what spec were you playing.

It definitely was in the top3 of the hardest specs. At least when you wanted to get close to your maximum dps.

[Segus1992]

And for the mentally impaired, yes, i know about the stat squish. While i hit a combined total of 11.2k with 2 hits and 4 multistrikes with a single whirlwind, I hit 170k+ with execute. Execute did not do 17 times more damage than WW in vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata or mop. It is a complete spit in the face to say that arms plays anything like TBC.

Utter shambles

Except Vanilla Execute did extreme amounts of damage with 100 rage, and Whirlwind wasn't an AoE back then (as it is now). Apples and oranges, but maybe you're seeing something I'm not, considering you're arrogant (or whiny) enough to call people mentally impaired.

[Sliske]

Except Vanilla Execute did extreme amounts of damage with 100 rage, and Whirlwind wasn't an AoE back then (as it is now). Apples and oranges, but maybe you're seeing something I'm not, considering you're arrogant (or whiny) enough to call people mentally impaired.

1. I said execute didn't do 17 times more damage than an execute.
2. WW was aoe. 4 target AoE on a 10 second cooldown in Vanilla.

Also please don't SJW me with that last sentence. I think I would actually be sick if a post as wrong as yours decides to derail the thread with SJW nonsense. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

There is also extreme irony in your post, but if I point it out I will probably get infracted.

[Segus1992]

1. I said execute didn't do 17 times more damage than an execute.
2. WW was aoe. 4 target AoE on a 10 second cooldown in Vanilla.

Also please don't SJW me with that last sentence. I think I would actually be sick if a post as wrong as yours decides to derail the thread with SJW nonsense. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

There is also extreme irony in your post, but if I point it out I will probably get infracted.

I guess it's both then.

WW went from 4 targets to infinite (10 for the sake of max damage). Even one such as yourself should realise how that's different.

Execute did do crazy amounts of damage in Vanilla, but seeing as it was 8+ years ago, I can't say if it was 17 times higher.

[Sliske]

I guess it's both then.

WW went from 4 targets to infinite (10 for the sake of max damage). Even one such as yourself should realise how that's different.

Execute did do crazy amounts of damage in Vanilla, but seeing as it was 8+ years ago, I can't say if it was 17 times higher.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to take you seriously. If you actually read my post, i was highlighting how arms is almost nothing like vanilla or tbc arms and now you're telling ME there is a difference. You have to grasp just how stupid that sounds. You're literally telling me what I am saying is correct, but in a manner that suggests I didn't say it and now you're having to tell me

[Segus1992]

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to take you seriously. If you actually read my post, i was highlighting how arms is almost nothing like vanilla or tbc arms and now you're telling ME there is a difference. You have to grasp just how stupid that sounds. You're literally telling me what I am saying is correct, but in a manner that suggests I didn't say it and now you're having to tell me

Alright. You disputed the quote that someone said it reminded them of TBC, where the rotation was MS, WW, Slam (repeat), Execute replacing Slam when within Execute range. Now it's Rend, CS, MS, WW (repeat), Execute replacing WW when within Execute range (and MS?). If you're really saying there's no way that's similar, you're even less reasonable than I originally thought.

Now you brought up Vanilla, during which I don't think Slam was used, but I can't remember for sure. Regardless, who the hell wants to return to the Vanilla way of doing *anything* (except mounts)?

[Sliske]

Alright. You disputed the quote that someone said it reminded them of TBC, where the rotation was MS, WW, Slam (repeat), Execute replacing Slam when within Execute range. Now it's Rend, CS, MS, WW (repeat), Execute replacing WW when within Execute range (and MS?). If you're really saying there's no way that's similar, you're even less reasonable than I originally thought.

Now you brought up Vanilla, during which I don't think Slam was used, but I can't remember for sure. Regardless, who the hell wants to return to the Vanilla way of doing *anything* (except mounts)?

You are so far off the mark that you're starting to phase out of existence.

Arms was PvP 99.9% of the Time in TBC. So I could just throw you out the window on that point, but lets just say we're talking about PvP so i don't make yet another "are you fucking serious?" post.

1. In TBC, We had MS on a 6 second cooldown (5 talented)
2. In TBC, We had WW on a 10 second cooldown
3. In TBC, We had heroic strike
4. In TBC, We had rend
5. In TBC, We had overpower
6. In TBC, We had slam
7. In TBC, We had execute
8. In TBC, We had thunder clap (doing reasonable damage to rogues with evasion, etc)
9. In TBC, We had Cleave


That is 9 different ways to spend my range. We now have 6. Yes, i know we have slam now. You can't count slam if it isn't actually fucking viable in any way, shape or form

11. We had Deep Wounds, another source of damage
12. We had Death Wish
13. We had Revenge
14. We had Shield Block for Revenge spam

YES, LETS SEE THE SIMILARITIES TO NOW.

1. We have Mortal Strike (In TBC, Mortal Strike hit for a shit ton)
2. We have Execute (In TBC, Execute wasn't your top damage dealt)
3. We have Rend (In TBC, Rend did way more damage than it does now)
4. We have Whirlwind (In TBC, Whirlwind was used single target and hit for a shit ton. Much like a divine storm proc is now for a ret paladin)
5. We have Colossus Smash (In TBC, Colossus Smash did not exist)
6. We have Sweeping Strikes (In TBC, Sweeping Strikes wasn't obtainable if you already spent points to get Mortal Strike)
7. We have Bladestorm (In TBC, Bladestorm didn't exist)
8. We have Dragon Roar (In TBC, Dragon Roar didn't exist)
9. We have Recklessness (In TBC, Recklessness was 3 stacks of 100% crit on next ability used)
10. We have Ravager / Anger Management (In TBC, neither of these existed)
11. Rage is completely different

Total Similarities:

1. Spell names are the same
2. We auto attack just like in TBC
3. We use 2handers

Thank you for making me draw out a trivially easy question "Is WoD arms anything like TBC arms." "No" is the answer anyone who has played both or fuck, anyone who even looked a video of arms on youtube in TBC. Yet you apparently require a longer answer, because you're so pedantic that you think ability name is enough to mark a spec as being similar.

Arms in WoD is as different to Arms in TBC as Arms in WoD is to ret paladin. it is a completely different spec. Comparing the two is fine. Comparing the two and finding meaningful similarities to the point of calling it reminiscent of TBC Arms is borderline worrisome. I am actually worried for your mental strength.

I would ask you to help yourself, but i doubt you could do that. You are screwed. Sorry, bro.

[Segus1992]

Wall of text rant snip

So you're changing the subject to PvP because your argument in terms of PvE didn't hold. Cute.

You're truly a Warrior, using rage to solve all of your problems.

As for the subject at hand, WoD Arms PvE rotation is similar to TBC Arms PvE rotation. Listing all the minute differences as if they made the simple quote of "reminds me of TBC" invalid doesn't make you right.

[Sliske]

So you're changing the subject to PvP because your argument in terms of PvE didn't hold. Cute.

You're truly a Warrior, using rage to solve all of your problems.

As for the subject at hand, WoD Arms PvE rotation is similar to TBC Arms PvE rotation. Listing all the minute differences as if they made the simple quote of "reminds me of TBC" invalid doesn't make you right.

Are you fucking serious?

I changed it to PvP because no one PvE'd as arms in TBC, and if they did, it would be the same priority system as PvP. You are so off the mark its unreal. You ability to read is sub par, as you have twice agreed with me while simultaneously acting as if you are giving an opposing statement

Seriously? I understand people learn or understand slower than others, but you have zero excuse. Text doesn't move. You can read my post 20 times if you have to in order to understand basic english and simple ideas and opinions.

I'm so done with talking to you, honestly. Twice you've agreed with me, 3 times you have been dead wrong to the point that i doubt you neither play warrior, played warrior or have the ability to google. You have been incorrect on literally everything you have said. I have detailed it in two massive walls of text for you and still you reply with 4 sentences of utter horse shit and yet more fuel to add to the fire of ignorance that just surrounds you at all times.

[Deleted]

Have to disagree with you both.
First of all, Leeches bro, don't let the troll get to your nerves.

Second of all, rotation now and then are literally worlds apart.

Rotation back then was made of Charge if possible, since it was not usable in combat,
Blood Rage to feed your Rage bar a little,
Then:
Ms + Slam,
auto,
WW + Slam,
auto.

Rinse repeat.
MS was a 5 seconds cd if talented, there were more offensive, single target options and more consistent ones. And I can't really recall which one was the better.
I do remember preferring Endless Rage.

Most important part was taking Blood Frenzy, that was the sole reason to bring an Arms into a raid in endgame TBC.
You could either keep it up with crits, or force it with Rend.
That by the way did pitiful damage and was good to keep Rogues unstealthed and that was that.

Still, you basically weaved Slams inside MS and WW cooldowns. When in Execute range, you'd drop both to Execute.
You had to be careful to not clip your swing timer with Slam, since it suspended your melee white swings, and to dump excess Rage with Heroic Strike.

It was a pretty engaging rotation for the times. And I repeat: it's worlds apart comparing to nowadays.

As of now you Charge, CS + MS, then WW. Spam WW.
Nothing to look for, no BF to micromanage. If you have Sudden Death you press Execute, if not you don't.
Rend is back to being an uninteresting button, with the notable difference it now does some meaningful damage.
No more Heroic Strike, no Slam weaving, whites are uneventful for the spec.

Not to mention that there was finesse in sitting different stances or forcing events for things to happen, such as popping Berserker Rage to maximise Rage income during aoe raid damage for smoother Execute phases (Reliquary of Souls comes to mind). Which were not that useful most of the times, but were there to use nonetheless.

If anybody is to tell me that this Arms plays like that one, I'm all for calling it bullshit.
It's not, it's not at all, and will never be as long as WW stays in this grotesque incarnation.

It MAY summon some similarities, but that's that.

And may I remind you all that after TBC Arms got its overhaul that pushed it to awesomeness, revolving around its iconic Overpower.
No, this Arms is not the Arms that was nice to play (and neither was MoP's, since it was completely different aswell). And no damage increases will fix this.

[Sliske]

Thank you. Seriously. Sanity is so rare