Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Ghostpanther]

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Can someone explain this to me? I read it as if he means to say gay marriage is bad and then comes around raging against government telling people who they can and cannot marry. Totally confused.

I think he means it should be up to the States which will allow gay marriage. The SCOTUS is going to be ruling on the subject this summer. But it really has nothing to do with gun control. With maybe the exception SCOTUS has ruled that each State has the right to decide how they want to control the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms, as long as they do not out right ban them.

[Mayhem]

I think he means it should be up to the States which will allow gay marriage. The SCOTUS is going to be ruling on the subject this summer. But it really has nothing to do with gun control. With maybe the exception SCOTUS has ruled that each State has the right to decide how they want to control the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms, as long as they do not out right ban them.

but isn´t that also government telling people who they are allowed to marry? ... what?

[Ghostpanther]

[QUOTE=PRE 9-11;32199144]Just a PSA for all the criminals and convicted violent felons in Washington State.

If you'd like to purchase a firearm for future criminal activities, this gun show is for you!!!!

"If you’re an FFL and you’d like to sell firearms at the expo, please understand this: No unconstitutional gun sales will be permitted. That means no background checks, no paperwork, no infringement."QUOTE]
[/B]

We know that background checks, paper work is not unconstitutional. So for them to suggest they are, is totally wrong. Infringement (my personal opinion) is to make a weapon purchase too expensive by any government action.

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but isn´t that also government telling people who they are allowed to marry? ... what?

It is the Federal Government letting the State Governments to do so. The decision to be made this summer is " Is the denial of gay marriage a violation of any part of the Constitution." Some local Federal judges have ruled it is. But the SCOTUS has not ruled on it. Preferring in the past to let the States decide. Like they have in dealing with the word "infringe upon" in the Constitution dealing with gun control. Some States like Vermont for example, do not feel they should interfere with the right to keep and bear arms because no law is needed since it is a Constitutional right. Of course criminal behavior with a weapon can cause you to lose that right.

[PhaelixWW]

your argument against "harder to produce" is a product that would be illegal to sell?

What would be illegal about it? It's just a CNC mill.

And that's not even the point. Even were it illegal, the technology to manufacture firearms on a tabletop is out there. The salient point here is that it's fairly easy to manufacture a firearm anywhere. Most drugs take a decent amount of planning and setup to manufacture. Pot grow farms that can be spotted from the air. Grow houses that can be found by their power consumption. Meth labs that can be found out by their fumes or the crater they leave behind when they blow sky-high.

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His examples fail because he forgot studies control variables.

The fact that you think that studies can a) completely eliminate the confounding influence of a variable, and/or b) completely identify and account for every single confounding variable, is laughable.

But that's because you have less than a grade school understanding of the scientific method.


[Infracted]

[Mayhem]

What would be illegal about it? It's just a CNC mill.

And that's not even the point. Even were it illegal, the technology to manufacture firearms on a tabletop is out there. The salient point here is that it's fairly easy to manufacture a firearm anywhere. Most drugs take a decent amount of planning and setup to manufacture. Pot grow farms that can be spotted from the air. Grow houses that can be found by their power consumption. Meth labs that can be found out by their fumes or the crater they leave behind when they blow sky-high.

well i´d say stuff that you can use to create firearms would be highly regulated, don´t you think? of course we´re talking about mass production, not one guy building a firearm once or twice a year, but that´s on an equal level of growing pot for personal requirements.

[PhaelixWW]

well i´d say stuff that you can use to create firearms would be highly regulated, don´t you think? of course we´re talking about mass production, not one guy building a firearm once or twice a year, but that´s on an equal level of growing pot for personal requirements.

That's just it: it's just a mill. It's like trying to make computers illegal because they can be used to do illegal activities. It's just not possible.

[Mayhem]

That's just it: it's just a mill. It's like trying to make computers illegal because they can be used to do illegal activities. It's just not possible.

you obviously don´t want to get my point. no use trying

[Deleted]

US gun control is so shitty they export their gun crime to canada
http://www.havocscope.com/guns-for-sale-canada/

"Up to 70 percent of all crimes involving guns in Canada involve firearms purchased in the United States and smuggled into the country."

And they multiply the price because restricting access is impossible.

The report stated that a gun would first be purchased in the United States for $150. The gun would then be smuggled across the border and sold in the City of Windsor for $800 to $1,000 to a trafficker. The trafficker would then move the gun further north into the City of Toronto, where that gun is sold for at least $2,000.

[PhaelixWW]

you obviously don´t want to get my point. no use trying

What point was that? About mass production? I'm not sure how a small, portable, quick CNC mill doesn't facilitate mass production as well as "once or twice a year".

[Deleted]

What point was that? About mass production? I'm not sure how a small, portable, quick CNC mill doesn't facilitate mass production as well as "once or twice a year".

If an US gun gains ~20 times itsvalue when you move it to Toronto your whole argument is void.

[Mayhem]

What point was that? About mass production? I'm not sure how a small, portable, quick CNC mill doesn't facilitate mass production as well as "once or twice a year".

mass production requires masses of resources

[Rukentuts]

What would be illegal about it? It's just a CNC mill.

And that's not even the point. Even were it illegal, the technology to manufacture firearms on a tabletop is out there. The salient point here is that it's fairly easy to manufacture a firearm anywhere. Most drugs take a decent amount of planning and setup to manufacture. Pot grow farms that can be spotted from the air. Grow houses that can be found by their power consumption. Meth labs that can be found out by their fumes or the crater they leave behind when they blow sky-high.

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The fact that you think that studies can a) completely eliminate the confounding influence of a variable, and/or b) completely identify and account for every single confounding variable, is laughable.

But that's because you have less than a grade school understanding of the scientific method.

Then maybe you could show us what variables they missed that breaks the relationship. Or just lazily deflect from the fact that someone with a "grade school comprehension" just had to remind you control exists, again.

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That's just it: it's just a mill. It's like trying to make computers illegal because they can be used to do illegal activities. It's just not possible.

What is it with you and false equivalents?

[TZucchini]

The fact that you think that studies can a) completely eliminate the confounding influence of a variable, and/or b) completely identify and account for every single confounding variable, is laughable.

I don't recall anyone saying it was possible to identify and eliminate all confounding variables. But it can be done to a rather significant degree.

It would be laughable, imo, if someone said "well, we can't possibly identify and eliminate all confounding variables, therefore, the study is weak."

[Ghostpanther]

If an US gun gains ~20 times itsvalue when you move it to Toronto your whole argument is void.

So it would seem you need to allow more access to guns in Canada so the citizens up there do not feel they need to buy illegal guns.

[TZucchini]

US gun control is so shitty they export their gun crime to canada

This isn't nearly as worrisome as the thousands of firearms that get trafficked into Mexico each year.

According to ATF data, a significant portion of firearms confiscated by Mexican authorities that could be traced have their origins traced back to the US. These firearms are used by cartels to fuel the drug war, among other things.

Imagine what would happen if we could significantly reduce the amount of firearms trafficked into Mexico. It would likely have a huge positive impact in America.

[Mayhem]

So it would seem you need to allow more access to guns in Canada so the citizens up there do not feel they need to buy illegal guns.

you´re aware you´re promoting to make crime guns more afordable, right?

[Stormdash]

you´re aware you´re promoting to make crime guns more afordable, right?

A pretty common consumer ambition for any lawful good or service, is it not? It's the same reason cigarette bootleggers, bootleg cigarettes in NYC and other pockets of faux-topianism.

[Mayhem]

A pretty common consumer ambition for any lawful good or service, is it not? It's the same reason cigarette bootleggers, bootleg cigarettes in NYC and other pockets of faux-topianism.

what are you talking about?

[Rukentuts]

A pretty common consumer ambition for any lawful good or service, is it not? It's the same reason cigarette bootleggers, bootleg cigarettes in NYC and other pockets of faux-topianism.

Except this points out other states' failures to restrict access to goods that damage society rather than NYC's fault.

[Stormdash]

what are you talking about?

Your pearl-clutching over the idea that someone could welcome a result that would drive the price of legally purchased firearms down. Highly regulated goods that are necessarily more expensive because of it, are more likely to find a black market.