1. #3301
    Does anyone know how warcraftlogs calculates "active" time for damage taken? I.e. DTPS(a) vs DTPS(e), I get that (e) is (total damage taken)/(fight length), but what does (a) mean for a tank? Is it (total damage taken)/(time attacking something) like for DPS(a), or is it /(time targeted/attacked by something)?
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  2. #3302
    Quote Originally Posted by Theck View Post
    Regarding WoG usage, I've never found a reliable way to implement that in the sim. In the past, it's always been a TMI decrease to use e.g. a simple conditional that uses WoG when you're <40% max health or one that checks for incoming damage exceeding some percentage of health. That may have changed, though, so it's something I can investigate.
    So I played around a bit with WoG usage.

    T17M standard profile with T17M TMI boss.
    ES_DP_SoR_no_WoG: 28 535 DPS, 132k TMI, SotR uptime 83.43%
    Sera_HA_no_WoG: 29 120 DPS, 124.2k TMI, SotR uptime 59.25%

    then I added this line to the action profile: actions+=/word_of_glory,if=(holy_power>=3)&(incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.35)
    (not optimal but I didn't get the health.pct option working, somehow it didn't make a difference in WoG usage; also disregarding # stacks of bastion of glory gave better results than only casting it at 5 stacks)

    Results:
    ES_DP_SoR_WoG: 27 909 DPS, 128.3k TMI, SotR uptime 76.13%, #WoG casts: 11
    Sera_HA_WoG: 28 887 DPS, 136.3k TMI, SotR uptime 47.69%, #WoG casts: 21

    These preliminary results tell me, that 1) with EmpS casting WoG after big damage spikes is a viable survival strategy, 2) with Sera_HA casting WoG under the same conditions is bad for survival and 3) as Sera_HA damage spikes the size of 35% max health per 1.5s happen roughly twice as often as for ES_DP_SoR (21 WoG casts vs 11).

    However, more testing and tweaking is required to see how useful WoG can be for survival for the different speccs.

    Edit: added SotR uptime
    Last edited by cujoe; 2015-03-02 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #3303
    I think you need to increase that 35% to at least 70%, if you can't add another assumption like "health.remaining<=30%" (I don't know the exact sentence, I just extrapolated from your health.max). Getting hit down to 65% is nowhere near a scenario where I'd consider WoG'ing myself instead of mitigating the next 1 or 2 hits by 45%.
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  4. #3304
    Yeah, part of the issue is that 35% of your health is probably close to one unmitigated melee swing, so it'll trigger fairly often. In the case of ES, we clearly have enough HPG to make that a net win. With Sera, we don't have the HPG to support that without opening ourselves up to more danger, hence the TMI increase. You might have better luck with a longer window and higher threshold (e.g. incoming_damage_3s>=health.max*0.70).

    Back in MoP these sorts of conditionals were pretty uniformly a TMI loss, but mechanics have changed enough that there are probably situations (like ES) where it's worth doing.

  5. #3305
    Quote Originally Posted by Theck View Post
    Yeah, part of the issue is that 35% of your health is probably close to one unmitigated melee swing, so it'll trigger fairly often. In the case of ES, we clearly have enough HPG to make that a net win. With Sera, we don't have the HPG to support that without opening ourselves up to more danger, hence the TMI increase. You might have better luck with a longer window and higher threshold (e.g. incoming_damage_3s>=health.max*0.70).
    Problem is, that when I set the trigger either to 50% of max health per 1.5s or 70% of max health per 3s I get in average 0.5 WoG casts per fight, so it seems such huge damage spikes never happen with the T17M TMI boss in T17M BiS gear.

    Also can somebody tell my what's the condition for health remaining? I tried health.pct<X but it didn't do anything and the profile just cast WoG whenever it has 3 HoPo, even if I set X to 1.

    Edit: stupid me, didn't add healers to the profile, so all health triggers can't work because health is always in the minus
    Last edited by cujoe; 2015-03-02 at 05:05 PM.

  6. #3306
    health<=maximum_health*0.3 maybe?

    I know of health_percentage but it might be the exact same thing as health.pct() and might be a function silently only called towards your target and never on yourself.
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  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortiah View Post
    To be honest, everyone here wants to play EmpS IF AND ONLY IF it doesn't require sweal twisting.
    so much this, sitting in SoR feels great and feels fluid and i almost feel tankier but i havent tried emps on any mythic bosses (too scared/we're on the earlier bosses so emps is pointless with tank swaps). if it were the case that one could pull of EMPS and have it come even or ahead in survivability but with less damage spikes id be keen (edit: without losing a lot of dps) but the gained SOTR time is worthless if nothing is hitting you. I also rather like sitting in SoI, if ever i dont have bastion stacks, proper HoPo, or a healing tonic to react to a spike i like having that fallback to save my ass.

    offtopic a bit but can anyone tell me if Sera reduces acid torrent damage? my guilds on oregorger rn and ill go in to it with say: sac/vigi/DP/SOTR and still get trucked.
    Last edited by Venz; 2015-03-02 at 05:08 PM.

  8. #3308
    Deleted
    The increased mastery will make your SotR stronger and the extra armor will also reduce your damage taken from the torrent.
    You can also bubble / bop it, looking at logs when you bubble the torrent the raid appears to take the least dmg possible, looks like there's a base dmg amount for the part of the torrent the raid takes and no matter how much dmg reduction the soaking tank has the raid will still take that much dmg.

    Also make sure the tank soaking the acid torrent doesn't currently have aggro, you don't want to be taking the melee hits just before and just after the torrent if you're soaking it.
    Last edited by mmocd8edea4efc; 2015-03-02 at 05:24 PM.

  9. #3309
    Deleted
    The torrent is no problem at all as a paladin. Just make sure to tankswap after the torrent and not standing in front of the boss for the next torrent as this may instakill you...

  10. #3310
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    lazel, the reason why insight does so much healing in blast furnace ( and why prot pallies are actually good on this fight) is that the raid is ALWAYS taking damage, and triage healing is needed. What are prot pallies all about? active mitigation and triage healing baby. i enjoy it a lot myself too watching me actually surpass the monk on healing with empowered seals and light hammer and even catching up to some healers.


    BTW, has anyone actually taken a look at execution sentence now that it's healing is tremendous? used it on myself once while i had high resolve and it crit me for 90% of my health pool. Having this talent is like having a lay on hands every minute if you need it. sure you lose about 6% or so damage but thats a lot of healing honestly.

  11. #3311
    Deleted
    So, I've got a question if anybody else noticed this.

    If I refresh Sacred Shield at 1 second remaining duration the newly created 31 second long buff will fall off after only 26 seconds, so when 5 seconds should be remaining.
    This can be reproduced almost always, the only difference I have found is that it sometimes stays around until 4 seconds remain.
    If the buff is refreshed above 5 seconds remaining I doesn't seem to happen at all.

    I made a bug report about this already, but I'm curious if this only affects me, or if there are even more spells that have this bug.

  12. #3312
    Quote Originally Posted by cujoe View Post
    So I played around a bit with WoG usage.

    T17M standard profile with T17M TMI boss.
    ES_DP_SoR_no_WoG: 28 535 DPS, 132k TMI, SotR uptime 83.43%
    Sera_HA_no_WoG: 29 120 DPS, 124.2k TMI, SotR uptime 59.25%

    then I added this line to the action profile: actions+=/word_of_glory,if=(holy_power>=3)&(incoming_damage_1500ms>=health.max*0.35)
    (not optimal but I didn't get the health.pct option working, somehow it didn't make a difference in WoG usage; also disregarding # stacks of bastion of glory gave better results than only casting it at 5 stacks)

    Results:
    ES_DP_SoR_WoG: 27 909 DPS, 128.3k TMI, SotR uptime 76.13%, #WoG casts: 11
    Sera_HA_WoG: 28 887 DPS, 136.3k TMI, SotR uptime 47.69%, #WoG casts: 21

    These preliminary results tell me, that 1) with EmpS casting WoG after big damage spikes is a viable survival strategy, 2) with Sera_HA casting WoG under the same conditions is bad for survival and 3) as Sera_HA damage spikes the size of 35% max health per 1.5s happen roughly twice as often as for ES_DP_SoR (21 WoG casts vs 11).

    However, more testing and tweaking is required to see how useful WoG can be for survival for the different speccs.

    Edit: added SotR uptime
    Wow, i fu*ked up the profile for Sera_HA_WoG and had it use SoR instead of SoI. The actual values for Sera_HA_WoG are:

    28 067 DPS, 120.5k TMI and 13 WoG casts.

    So for ES_DP_SoR as well as for Sera_HA, casting WoG after a damage spike of 35% of max health within 1.5s will provide a gain of about 4k TMI at a slight DPS cost.

  13. #3313
    Deleted
    Speaking of bugs, I've just run into this bizarre situation on Mar'gok where I have Holy Shield talented but don't seem to be benefiting from it. My percentage of blocked attacks is roughly as you would expect without Holy Shield, and Holy Shield simply isn't triggering.

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Speaking of bugs, I've just run into this bizarre situation on Mar'gok where I have Holy Shield talented but don't seem to be benefiting from it. My percentage of blocked attacks is roughly as you would expect without Holy Shield, and Holy Shield simply isn't triggering.
    I'm not the only one o.o

    It happened on our kill this week, and I didn't notice till I looked at logs later because I didn't *feel* less tanky. Never changed the talent all night, but it only procced on the first pull of the night, then just ceased functioning apparently.

  15. #3315
    i have had the sacred shield bug happen several times this weak but thought it was just due to a WA issue due to 6.1 or something but definitely noticed it randomly just going poof early. I also had a bug where ES gave me no haste whatsoever. Respecing fixed it but I don't know why that happened. :|

  16. #3316
    Looking for some advice for Blackhand Heroic. Talents I'm using are Sacred Shield, Holy Avenger, Light's Hammer, Holy Shield. Trinkets I have are Pol's Blinded Eye (685), Blast Furnace Door (680), Evergaze Arcane Eidolon (676), Pillar of the Earth (670), and I'm currently using PBE and BFD.

    The issue I'm running into is mostly in Phase 2. In that phase, I'm tanking the boss almost the entirety of the phase because our secondary tank just takes the smashes and kills adds. We've made it into phase 3 multiple times, but my survivability is a huge liability. We don't have a holy paladin, so I need to be spot on with my CD usage. The problem for me is, there is constant, heavy damage throughout the phase. I use my Divine Protection off CD and use Holy Avenger with my trinket, but I'm having trouble with how to properly use GoAK and AD since the damage is constant with no real spikes.

    What seems to be the issue is if I miss a block/parry twice or three times I will most likely die.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks!

  17. #3317
    Will prot 2 set BRF normal (665 ilvl) be better use than 1 tier item and a 680 chestpiece non tier item? (chest of rolling fury with 152 avoidance as well) or should I stick to 680 chest and 665 tier gloves ?

  18. #3318
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerrus View Post
    Looking for some advice for Blackhand Heroic. Talents I'm using are Sacred Shield, Holy Avenger, Light's Hammer, Holy Shield. Trinkets I have are Pol's Blinded Eye (685), Blast Furnace Door (680), Evergaze Arcane Eidolon (676), Pillar of the Earth (670), and I'm currently using PBE and BFD.

    The issue I'm running into is mostly in Phase 2. In that phase, I'm tanking the boss almost the entirety of the phase because our secondary tank just takes the smashes and kills adds. We've made it into phase 3 multiple times, but my survivability is a huge liability. We don't have a holy paladin, so I need to be spot on with my CD usage. The problem for me is, there is constant, heavy damage throughout the phase. I use my Divine Protection off CD and use Holy Avenger with my trinket, but I'm having trouble with how to properly use GoAK and AD since the damage is constant with no real spikes.

    What seems to be the issue is if I miss a block/parry twice or three times I will most likely die.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks!
    Maybe try Divine Purpose? HA provides some pretty phenomenal mitigation for 20 seconds, but the phase lasts too long for that (and you're describing your issue as "heavy damage throughout the phase"). With Bloodlust, you'll have near perfect uptime on SoR, and procs can let you use 5-stack WoG without severely hurting your survivability during phases where you are chasing the boss or off-tanking.

  19. #3319
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Should try Emps + DP on blackhand heroic if you are tanking whole phase 2 and your co-tank is going up.

    Ha+ sera is also pretty good if you can manage it with externals : )
    Lazel recommending EmpS/DP?

    WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE LAZEL I KNOW, FIEND?

  20. #3320
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerrus View Post
    Looking for some advice for Blackhand Heroic. Talents I'm using are Sacred Shield, Holy Avenger, Light's Hammer, Holy Shield. Trinkets I have are Pol's Blinded Eye (685), Blast Furnace Door (680), Evergaze Arcane Eidolon (676), Pillar of the Earth (670), and I'm currently using PBE and BFD.

    The issue I'm running into is mostly in Phase 2. In that phase, I'm tanking the boss almost the entirety of the phase because our secondary tank just takes the smashes and kills adds. We've made it into phase 3 multiple times, but my survivability is a huge liability. We don't have a holy paladin, so I need to be spot on with my CD usage. The problem for me is, there is constant, heavy damage throughout the phase. I use my Divine Protection off CD and use Holy Avenger with my trinket, but I'm having trouble with how to properly use GoAK and AD since the damage is constant with no real spikes.

    What seems to be the issue is if I miss a block/parry twice or three times I will most likely die.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks!
    take HA on that fight, you get 1 use in each phase so take the boss first, BoP/bubble the first smash, speed of light back and let your co-tank do his thing. you shouldnt need any other cds during p1 so use DP and roll sera for the second demolition. my guild does the same strat where my co-tank (a monk) takes all the smashes and goes into the stands. stagger your CDs in a way that allows you to be covered for downtime on sera/DP/sotr patches (if you have any). if your healers are having trouble keeping you up maybe revisit your strategy and plan around boss/raid/siege positioning to minimize movement. we try to keep him near the middle of the room. phase 3 survivability is a non-issue with how much downtime (airtime) there is along with the tank swaps. use your bonus armor pot in phase 2 with your HA if you're still getting decked otherwise use it with lust and 3rd use in p3. id also recommend running Execution sentence because LH is somewhat wasted with movement + the raid healing is negligible, and using a stam flask and PoTE to give healers more time to react.

    edit- my advice was based around sera so gg. if you're comfortable with it id use sera for BH to give you more controlled mitigation, otherwise yeah EMPS is really good for high SOTR uptime since that fight is purely physical except for p3 smash.
    Last edited by Venz; 2015-03-02 at 10:03 PM.

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