Does school really prepare us?

[Zantos]

I was 15. Different experiences(which is what my first sentence originally stated.) It taught me a different way to think and solve a problem. As someone said earlier, it trains the mind. So, what's your point?

What is my point in what regard? All of school trains the mind. What possible reason is there to not teach them practical life skills while continuing to teach the useless stuff as well?

It's actually quite true. If you don't give a shit about the subject at hand you aren't particularly likely to learn and make use of it.

Except that knowledge is there. Does it matter if a few people don't want to learn about it? Is that really a viable reason for the schools to fail at teaching the majority the important things?

You made this declaration that there's a clear difference like it's superior...without actually demonstrating how it is superior. Because you think you'd get more benefit from it? Ok, great. Not everyone is into chemistry and geometry(I know I'm not). However not everyone is interested in doing their own taxes or owning a home.

It is superior to learn these skills. Everyone owns a home or rents a home. There is no way around it. Everyone pays taxes. Do I expect them to know every fine detail about taxes? No. But the basics as to where to go, what they are, what they do, what happens if you don't pay them ect is kind of needed.

You should rename this thread to "Why didn't school prepare me for the things me myself and I are interested in?"

I am sorry you do not understand how these life skills are important and how school should actually prepare people for it. This isn't about what interests people. Go to college for that. This is about teaching our children how to do important things in life. Teach them skills that they actually need and will actually use.

I ask again, when was the last time you used geometry in real life? When was the last time you used chemistry? School has plenty of other subjects that could be cut out. I just used those two as an example. School has Plenty of other subjects that "teach the mind to think". Including grades K-8. Most of high school will do the same thing. There is no reason why they cannot add Important things into the mix. Teach practical skills as well as junk that no one will use because you think it will get them to want to think more.

Learning to do your taxes, raise kids, how to get a mortgage, and how to live on your own are things your parents can teach you. School is arguably more for specialized learning like math, science, history, etc. It sounds to me like you might have had bad parents / guardians that didn't do their job.

They did teach me, when I asked. Specialized training is college. High school claims it prepares us for the real world, yet doesn't.

[timberx]

I found my experience throughout school life to be utterly useless. Anything of note that I've learned beyond the basics has been passed onto me from friends, family and seeking out information on my own.

Just because it was useless to you, doesn't mean it was useless to someone else. Unfortunately, we don't really have the ability to teach every child on an individual basis catering to what they want to aspire to, considering most students can't even figure that part out for the first two decades of their life. So we give a general education. You want to learn something much more specific? You go to college for it.

[Spectral]

Schools of various kinds prepared me in a chain of education. By the time I was midway through high school, I was taking a couple college classes and getting ready for that. When I finished college, I had a solid foundation for graduate school. When I finished graduate school, I had a solid base of knowledge and skills to go enter the real world o' employment. That seems like it's basically working as intended.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Zantos;33073521]I was 17. I literally have no use for it. Tell me, in day to day life, what do you use geometry or chemistry for? Unless its your job, in which there are colleges for that.



So you are suggesting that in order to know how to buy the correct amount of carpet, wallpaper, paint etc should require a college education? The same goes for knowing to salt a frozen pathway or that detergent will cut through fat. I'm not suggesting that things like how to properly work out the interest payable on a mortgage or other loan or how to manage a household budget isn't useful, it really is, but to suggest that there is no "real world" use for geometry or chemistry is erroneous.

[Jester Joe]

How to think and how to socialize are probably the only two things that come out of school in the long run.

Well, besides the obvious day to day knowledge you need that you learn through elementary school, like reading and writing and what not.

[Very Tired]

As an accounting major, I can say that internships state that they don't expect you to know anything about how to perform the job, and they train you with everything you need to know after they hire you. Really suggests the 4 years of college you take is nothing more than a long test that only proves your competency. There's a reason no one cares about your GPA after you get your first job.

[Torgent]

I found my experience throughout school life to be utterly useless. Anything of note that I've learned beyond the basics has been passed onto me from friends, family and seeking out information on my own.

So what you're saying is....it worked. That's exactly how it's supposed to happen. School is a foundation on which you should build. School doesn't build the house for you, you still have to add the walls, doors, windows. But it gets you started.

[Zantos]

Schools of various kinds prepared me in a chain of education. By the time I was midway through high school, I was taking a couple college classes and getting ready for that. When I finished college, I had a solid foundation for graduate school. When I finished graduate school, I had a solid base of knowledge and skills to go enter the real world o' employment. That seems like it's basically working as intended.

Well, Im more talking about high school. Of course college helps. But the schooling that everyone attends is what I am discussing.

School isn't there to teach you how to live life. It's there to provide you with the most relevant bits of general education (literacy, math, geography etc.)

Grades k-8 did that. The crap in high school wasn't relevant in the least. I haven't used any of my high school teachings.

[Spectral]

I ask again, when was the last time you used geometry in real life? When was the last time you used chemistry?

Both are important foundations for other things that I like to learn about and that have practical application in my life. Mathematics requires having a somewhat broad base and teaches rigorous thinking more broadly. Being able to use formal logic or being able to use a bit of geometry when thinking about simple spacial problems is helpful.

Chemistry? Simple, when I explain how a Malliard reaction works when talking about cooking. Alternatively, in my work life even though I'm no longer in science, having enough chemistry to understand and explain how an IHC stain works to someone that doesn't have a science background is very helpful. Not everyone performs rote tasks for a living, so having a strong base of knowledge to build on can be helpful.

I'd generally agree that low IQ people don't really benefit from memorizing and forgetting these things though.

[Zantos]

So you are suggesting that in order to know how to buy the correct amount of carpet, wallpaper, paint etc should require a college education?

Name a store that sells those things that doesn't help you. I mean, I already know how to use a tape measure. Most stores where you buy carpet, wallpaper and those things have employees trained to help.

The same goes for knowing to salt a frozen pathway or that detergent will cut through fat.

School didn't teach me those. My mother did.

I'm not suggesting that things like how to properly work out the interest payable on a mortgage or other loan or how to manage a household budget isn't useful, it really is, but to suggest that there is no "real world" use for geometry or chemistry is erroneous.

They have Limited uses. Like I said, for the geometry bit, the employees are trained in that. For the salt and detergent bit, that is life. You just pick that up. School just tells you why it does that.

[timberx]

What is my point in what regard? All of school trains the mind. What possible reason is there to not teach them practical life skills while continuing to teach the useless stuff as well?


Except that knowledge is there. Does it matter if a few people don't want to learn about it? Is that really a viable reason for the schools to fail at teaching the majority the important things?


It is superior to learn these skills. Everyone owns a home or rents a home. There is no way around it. Everyone pays taxes. Do I expect them to know every fine detail about taxes? No. But the basics as to where to go, what they are, what they do, what happens if you don't pay them ect is kind of needed.

I am sorry you do not understand how these life skills are important and how school should actually prepare people for it. This isn't about what interests people. Go to college for that. This is about teaching our children how to do important things in life. Teach them skills that they actually need and will actually use.

I ask again, when was the last time you used geometry in real life? When was the last time you used chemistry? School has plenty of other subjects that could be cut out. I just used those two as an example. School has Plenty of other subjects that "teach the mind to think". Including grades K-8. Most of high school will do the same thing. There is no reason why they cannot add Important things into the mix. Teach practical skills as well as junk that no one will use because you think it will get them to want to think more.


They did teach me, when I asked. Specialized training is college. High school claims it prepares us for the real world, yet doesn't.

It's really not that hard to learn how to balance your own checkbook and knowing how to rent or buy a home isn't complex either. Your family should also be there to teach you just as much as the school is. Are you suggesting there should be a class called "How to talk to a Realtor 101?"

Geometry teaches you how to look at things from different perspectives, as well as, at least in my classes, to provide step-by-step proof of what you're trying to assert. Chemistry and Physics teache you about our world, what it's made of and how it works and so that you don't sound like an idiot when you(not you specifically) try to debate something like climate change.

[Vermicious]

I remember one class I had where we got a budget, and matched up with someone to figure out how to spend money for basic things.

As many others have commented, much of what you learn in school is pretty much useless in later life.

They really should have some classes on taxes, budgeting, etc. ya know, the stuff you really do after you get out of school.

[Deleted]

Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune.

[Zantos]

Both are important foundations for other things that I like to learn about and that have practical application in my life. Mathematics requires having a somewhat broad base and teaches rigorous thinking more broadly. Being able to use formal logic or being able to use a bit of geometry when thinking about simple spacial problems is helpful.

You enjoy those and went on further with them to incorporate them into your job. Someone like you obviously will use those skills. I am not saying to remove them all together. I just pointed to those two things as examples of something that Most people can really do without in favor of learning skills that everyone has to deal with. There are plenty of other things they could remove or work around to include those classes. In my school, we could have gotten one less study hall in favor of a finance class.

Chemistry? Simple, when I explain how a Malliard reaction works when talking about cooking. Alternatively, in my work life even though I'm no longer in science, having enough chemistry to understand and explain how an IHC stain works to someone that doesn't have a science background is very helpful. Not everyone performs rote tasks for a living, so having a strong base of knowledge to build on can be helpful.

That seems again, like its for your job though. So someone like you will obviously use those skills and in this instance, those two subjects were good for you. That being said, the kinds of things that I listed would have equally helped.

[timberx]

I remember one class I had where we got a budget, and matched up with someone to figure out how to spend money for basic things.

As many others have commented, much of what you learn in school is pretty much useless in later life.

They really should have some classes on taxes, budgeting, etc. ya know, the stuff you really do after you get out of school.

What is Budgeting? Adding up your income and subtracting your expenses.
What is Taxes? Percentages (to put very simply)

Are you saying your math class didn't teach you that? If you have a hard time carrying over a concept because in school the examples they used were watermelons, and in real life it's taxes, then you have much bigger issues to worry about it.

[Rassium]

The idea of school is to create an intelligent and learned population. You might not be directly applying your knowledge of Shakespeare or low level calculus to every day life, but learning those things is important. They give you context for the world we live in and help you understand it. Furthermore, by giving people strong general educations we allow them to explore different subjects and find one that they excel in and enjoy.

School may not teach you some practical aspects of life, but why should it? Things like job training you'll get on the job. Other things you learn by doing.

[Deleted]

Name a store that sells those things that doesn't help you. I mean, I already know how to use a tape measure. Most stores where you buy carpet, wallpaper and those things have employees trained to help.


School didn't teach me those. My mother did.



They have Limited uses. Like I said, for the geometry bit, the employees are trained in that. For the salt and detergent bit, that is life. You just pick that up. School just tells you why it does that.

To be fair I would be embarrassed to have to ask someone to work out the area of my lounge floor for me.

Maybe poor examples but at some point somebody discovered that these things occurred and TAUGHT them

So we have moved from none to limited and established that the hows and whys are essentially unimportant (to you at any rate)

[Spectral]

You enjoy those and went on further with them to incorporate them into your job. Someone like you obviously will use those skills. I am not saying to remove them all together. I just pointed to those two things as examples of something that Most people can really do without in favor of learning skills that everyone has to deal with. There are plenty of other things they could remove or work around to include those classes. In my school, we could have gotten one less study hall in favor of a finance class.

That seems again, like its for your job though. So someone like you will obviously use those skills and in this instance, those two subjects were good for you. That being said, the kinds of things that I listed would have equally helped.

How do you predict early enough who will use what though? It seems to me that providing a broad base of knowledge for everyone is a pretty good plan. I guess I'd personally be OK with doing some aptitude testing and shunting the dimmer kids off on a different path, but we already kind of do that, and it's culturally unpopular to really notice that stupid kids can't be made smart.

[Zantos]

It's really not that hard to learn how to balance your own checkbook and knowing how to rent or buy a home isn't complex either.

It is hard to learn to balance a checkbook. Why do you think people fall into debt? I learned in school and still use that. Renting is easy yes, but I have no knowledge on how to buy a home. I will be learning that shortly.

Your family should also be there to teach you just as much as the school is. Are you suggesting there should be a class called "How to talk to a Realtor 101?"

Yes, I am. I am indeed suggesting we have a generalized class that will go over what you need to know about buying a home and your finances.

Geometry teaches you how to look at things from different perspectives, as well as, at least in my classes, to provide step-by-step proof of what you're trying to assert.

You know what else teaches you to look at things from different perspectives? Games. Play a zelda game and you have to look at different perspectives all the time to solve a puzzle. My geometry class didn't teach me to provide step-by-step proof of anything. Just equations.

Chemistry and Physics teach you about our world, what it's made of and how it works and so that you don't sound like an idiot when you(not you specifically) try to debate something like climate change.

Honestly, it didn't in my case at all. In order for me to talk with any form of knowledge on that subject, research is needed.

Again, I just used these as examples that the general population doesn't need / wont miss in favor of something that they will be generally using every day.

How do you predict early enough who will use what though?

For geometry and chemistry, you really can't. For finances and home ownership, pretty much everyone will use it.

So we have moved from none to limited and established that the hows and whys are essentially unimportant (to you at any rate)

Its always been limited. I never said they would absolutely never ever be used. Merely that they could safely be removed for stuff that people Need to know.

[Rassium]

You know what else teaches you to look at things from different perspectives? Games. Play a zelda game and you have to look at different perspectives all the time to solve a puzzle. My geometry class didn't teach me to provide step-by-step proof of anything. Just equations.

And here it is.