1. #17721
    Scarab Lord Crackleslap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Whatever happened to Xin? He seems like he's really well suited for late game pushing. SoF lets you hit people around the t3/rax without putting yourself too close to the line of fire, and even with just bfury+buriza he can hit supports for like half their health, maybe more if he drops bolas during the SoF. Is it because he's basically worthless in the mid game?
    Not really sure why, but I think it's mainly because the current meta is heavily physical. Ember does nothing to avoid physical damage. (Besides being in sleight of fist). Previously, the meta wasn't so physical to an extent. And with Ember's magic absorb, what could go wrong?

    At least that's why I think he has fallen off. + the nerfs he has received over time.

  2. #17722
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    You don't need to play him to do it. Same thing with Sniper or any other hero that's overpowered to the point that it practically plays itself. Storm Spirit is not a complex hero that requires the ability to do multiple things at once. He's not Meepo or Invoker. He's not even Visage, Chen, or Syllabear.

    Can you press R and click the ground near your target? y/n? Can you press W and click your target? y/n? Can you press Q? y/n? Congratulations, you can play Storm Spirit!
    Storm Spirit is strong. I do not disagree there. But don't pretend to know much about the hero when you literally haven't played him for over a year.

  3. #17723
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    Storm Spirit is strong. I do not disagree there. But don't pretend to know much about the hero when you literally haven't played him for over a year.
    I don't think I've ever played Meepo but I've watched enough pros play him to have a solid understanding of how the hero works and what skillset is necessary for them to be successful with him. Same with Invoker (I think I've played Invoker a couple times.) I suck with Chen but I've watched Puppey do crazy things with the hero and recognize the things I do wrong, that he does correctly. And so on.

    Storm Spirit is not a complex hero. The closest thing he has to complexity is deciding on skill build, and for the most part, maxing Overload first is the most popular and most versatile choice.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  4. #17724
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Is that really though? Like, that's what they were doing, but they weren't succeeding really at it it seemed like.

    Or are you saying that like, that's how she used to be built?
    That's how she used to be. Before her ult depended on beam levels there was no reason to put points into it.

  5. #17725
    Anyone pointing that X player doesnt play X hero well = awful observer and commentator.
    This is like the worst possible excuse or explenation of your opinion you could come up with.

    Imo the game is in really bad state. You are currently so limited in the hero pool if you play against that top tier picks. It hasnt been so bad before. Can't even have more leeway in the game picking a non top tier hero becouse you are almost useless, even at 4k MMR.

    One will not agree, but it is matter of taste, uber tryhard or just try-a-bit-hard. Game is plain boring...

  6. #17726
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    That's how she used to be. Before her ult depended on beam levels there was no reason to put points into it.
    Ah, I see. I'm guessing it was in the transition from Dota to Dota 2 that happened? Couldn't find anything in the change logs of Dota 2 wiki about it.

    Maybe they were just trying to see how viable it was I guess. I don't care personally unless they start flaming others.

  7. #17727
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Storm Spirit is not a complex hero. The closest thing he has to complexity is deciding on skill build, and for the most part, maxing Overload first is the most popular and most versatile choice.
    When you break them down, most Heroes are actually quite simple to play - At least at their most basic level. The vast majority of skills are extremely easy to use competently after a couple of uses. Hard to land skill shot abilities tend to be an exception rather than the norm, so being able to mess up because you missed is quite rare. There is a huge difference in how well you can use your Heroes skills compared to how easy those skills are to use.

    Take Wraith King for example. He's widely considered to be one of the easiest heroes in the game due to only having one activated ability along with naturally being extremely tanky. He is, for all intents and purposes, as easy as a Hero gets in Dota. There's also a huge difference in how well he does based on player skill and experience. A newer player might immediately stun the first target they see and start hitting them, where a more experienced player might not bother stunning Bristleback and instead save their stun for when CM uses her ult. There are also lots of other problems Wraith King has to contend with, such as being quite a slow moving melee Hero which requires him to position well to connect with his targets, or having to maintain enough mana to be able to reincarnate. Then there are a whole host of potential item choices for you to consider, which will vary depending on your role the other teams Hero choices etc. Wraith King is not a complex Hero, but he does have a lot of depth to his play. The same is true of most other Heroes too, they're easy to learn how to play, but extremely hard to master. It's disingenuous to claim that a lack of complexity automatically makes a Hero easy mode like you're trying to do with Storm Spirit.

  8. #17728
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    There's also a huge difference in how well he does based on player skill and experience. A newer player might immediately stun the first target they see and start hitting them, where a more experienced player might not bother stunning Bristleback and instead save their stun for when CM uses her ult.
    Completely irrelevant. We're assuming everyone involved has played a computer game before.

    There are also lots of other problems Wraith King has to contend with, such as being quite a slow moving melee Hero which requires him to position well to connect with his targets,
    blink dagger

    or having to maintain enough mana to be able to reincarnate.
    soul ring

    Then there are a whole host of potential item choices for you to consider, which will vary depending on your role the other teams Hero choices etc.
    armlet assault cuirass abyssal blade

    Wraith King is not a complex Hero, but he does have a lot of depth to his play. The same is true of most other Heroes too, they're easy to learn how to play, but extremely hard to master. It's disingenuous to claim that a lack of complexity automatically makes a Hero easy mode like you're trying to do with Storm Spirit.
    Except that's exactly how it works. The simpler a hero is, the less depth that hero has. To claim otherwise is demonstrably false because everything that applies to simple heroes also applies to complex heroes, except those complex heroes also have a lot more that goes into them.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #17729
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Except that's exactly how it works. The simpler a hero is, the less depth that hero has. To claim otherwise is demonstrably false because everything that applies to simple heroes also applies to complex heroes, except those complex heroes also have a lot more that goes into them.
    i think its important to distinguish between "hero depth" and skill ceiling

  10. #17730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    i think its important to distinguish between "hero depth" and skill ceiling
    Yes, but Leoric's skill ceiling isn't much higher than the general "how to play DotA" skill ceiling is, if it is at all. Him and Viper are unquestionably the most basic, simplest heroes in the game and require very, very little hero-specific knowledge to do well with.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #17731
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    Anyone pointing that X player doesnt play X hero well = awful observer and commentator.
    This is like the worst possible excuse or explenation of your opinion you could come up with.

    Imo the game is in really bad state. You are currently so limited in the hero pool if you play against that top tier picks. It hasnt been so bad before. Can't even have more leeway in the game picking a non top tier hero becouse you are almost useless, even at 4k MMR.

    One will not agree, but it is matter of taste, uber tryhard or just try-a-bit-hard. Game is plain boring...
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1410739427
    heh
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Ah, I see. I'm guessing it was in the transition from Dota to Dota 2 that happened? Couldn't find anything in the change logs of Dota 2 wiki about it.

    Maybe they were just trying to see how viable it was I guess. I don't care personally unless they start flaming others.
    I've played so long I can't even remember what happened when, but yes, this was back in DotA days. If I remember correctly, it didn't last long, either.



    Also, as a side treat
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1410865019
    Storm Spirit balensd

  12. #17732
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    Anyone pointing that X player doesnt play X hero well = awful observer and commentator.
    This is like the worst possible excuse or explenation of your opinion you could come up with.
    It is worth mentioning when someone is making claims about how difficult it is to play a hero or not when he has literally never won a single game with said hero.

  13. #17733
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    It is worth mentioning when someone is making claims about how difficult it is to play a hero or not when he has literally never won a single game with said hero.
    I can't remember when anyone made any claims about how difficult it is to play SS. I do remember people complaining that SS is broken character and OPed tho
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  14. #17734
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I can't remember when anyone made any claims about how difficult it is to play SS. I do remember people complaining that SS is broken character and OPed tho
    I'm going to guess you've got PizzaShark on ignore then. I don't disagree with the notion that Storm Spirit is too strong, but PizzaShark's claims about his ease of play is patently ridiculous. Is it really so much to ask that he tries the things he tells people is all you need to win?

  15. #17735
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    I'm going to guess you've got PizzaShark on ignore then. I don't disagree with the notion that Storm Spirit is too strong, but PizzaShark's claims about his ease of play is patently ridiculous. Is it really so much to ask that he tries the things he tells people is all you need to win?
    Well, he is right about SS not being complex hero, his only "complexity" is mana limitation, which is easily solvable by cheap items like soul ring and bottle. I remember seeing youtube montage of some pro player juking all attacks from enemy mid hero with ult, taking 0 damage from him, things like these shouldn't exist, because it's basically auto-loss if your enemy plays better than you do and you can do nothing about it.

    Even when you manage to win lane vs SS, he still gets farm from woods and it's enough to get back into game. Dedicating someone to gank him 24/7 worked, but it doesn't work in current meta, and it doesn't reward you much because he can always get away from you. Doom works, but i don't see Doom much novadays. I do not like when item removes complexity (especially when this complexity balances hero out) of a hero, things like Lina+Eul (guaranteed stun), Magnus+Blink (self-explanatory, in this case blink should put his ult on 1-2 seconds CD).
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2015-04-20 at 07:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #17736
    SS is one of the easiest to play heroes in the game. Go mid, spam Q on creeps, E on enemy hero, instantly beat 90% of the heroes in the game, tie at worst with the rest. In the event they 3 man you to shut you down, just go jungle a bit. Click R slightly behind enemy heroes, W them while you're in the air, Q and right click they're dead. If it's a strength hero, ult in circles around them a few times. Buy items, keep killing people before your stun wears off, carry game 1v5.

    I just went 28-3 in a game where 3 of my allies had negative KDRs and pretty much won the game by myself, so my opinion matters. It wasn't even fun. I can't believe people pick this hero on purpose, there is no challenge to it, people literally cannot fight back.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-04-20 at 07:37 AM.

  17. #17737
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    I personally liked pre 6.58 SS much more than current one, it had much more fitting theme, and his ult was, just wow, so cool. I don't even remember when i played "new" SS after rework, i definitely checked him out, but if i was like "wow Dirge is now so much better" (tho, i missed zombie-skillshot-block), then with SS i was like "wow they completely destroyed very fun and teamfight oriented hero into pile of crap"
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2015-04-20 at 07:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  18. #17738
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    It is worth mentioning when someone is making claims about how difficult it is to play a hero or not when he has literally never won a single game with said hero.
    Best coaches and often commentators (example Football ones) were often terrible/mediocre players, yet made great coach/commentator.

    It is not about playing, it is about how you look into (things).

  19. #17739
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcereria View Post
    Best coaches and often commentators (example Football ones) were often terrible/mediocre players, yet made great coach/commentator.

    It is not about playing, it is about how you look into (things).
    That is an extremely apples to oranges rhetoric.

    I'm not even demanding PizzaShark play him well, I'm just asking him to have played it at all. A sports commentator or coach will still have played the sport, but PizzaShark literally hasn't played the hero since last year, and over his dotabuff career has only played him four times in its entirety.

  20. #17740
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    That is an extremely apples to oranges rhetoric.

    I'm not even demanding PizzaShark play him well, I'm just asking him to have played it at all. A sports commentator or coach will still have played the sport, but PizzaShark literally hasn't played the hero since last year, and over his dotabuff career has only played him four times in its entirety.
    So you're saying you'd need to play a bunch of Viper or Leoric to be able to make the assertion that they're brainless, simple heroes to play? Because Storm Spirit isn't exactly complex.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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