[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Reghame]

i was testing it the other day and i actually could not get it to proc again unless i went back over the trinket's specified threshold of HP. for example, when i was at the training dummy, i tryed to keep myself at 40% and see if it would proc off damage after 12 seconds, waited a minute but nothing but insight and SS was keeping me up. so you actually have to get back up to have it do a heal or damage.


BTW the damage also seems to scale with resolve but im not too sure on that one.

[Sepelio]

Damage doesn't scale with resolve.

[Rewyn]

meanwhile no 1 plays prot pala

Been gone for over a year. Curious what the problems are right now with prot, since I heard this reflected elsewhere as well.

[Reghame]

Damage doesn't scale with resolve.

coulda fooled me, but considering i can unequip my other trinket and force a no proc scenario but it goes up to 300k crits when the baseline is 90k for normal, im gona keep assuming it IS scaling with resolve.

- - - Updated - - -

Been gone for over a year. Curious what the problems are right now with prot, since I heard this reflected elsewhere as well.

low EHP, active mitigation cannot be used all the time thus that low EHP means getting a direct hit will nearly kill you on mythic. our survivability is based on being able to keep SotR up as much as possible ( rng aka unreliable) blocking ( pure rng here and unreliable) and be healing for a bunch of small amounts over time ( which wont work if you die in the next swing)

basically, we can only sort of control our own survival which is bad for progression and on top of this for a side kick, we do the lowest dps as well.

[celinamuna]

Efficiently from what perspective, pure proc uptime? for the raid as a whole it would be entirely inefficient to do that, you'd require more healing than another class doing the same job, and in a riskier scenario.

Can you please explain to me, how taking same amount of damage, and doing more healing, results in requiring more healing ?
I'm genuinely interested.

coulda fooled me, but considering i can unequip my other trinket and force a no proc scenario but it goes up to 300k crits when the baseline is 90k for normal, im gona keep assuming it IS scaling with resolve.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...01&view=events
+ http://puu.sh/iKluN/8f23fcf782.png

Looks like it scales with AP but not resolve.

[Fusoya]

All you haters complaining about Prot Paladins and Treckie hardly notices.

Some selfless, righteous individuals have been plaintively pointing out since the PTR that the 2p/Trink actually specifically target Prot Paladins' apparent deficiencies (Low EHP, low damage output). But most of the feedback in this thread has been petulant whining about the 4p and pointing to obvious bugs (eg the trink not appearing in logs).

When GMs and raid leaders of mid-tier guilds have only the prevailing sentiment to go by (i.e. you haters), we get told to reroll. So congrats on poisoning the well. I sure would like to try out Savior's Boon on live, I guess I'll have to wait for alt clears in a few months.

[Sepelio]

Why quote me then ignore half of the quote celina? The only way to maximise the trinket is to remain below the threshold every time the proc becomes available, meaning on most encounters you'd have to make your offtank a taunt bot for debuffs, meaning you'd be tanking the vast majority, where we as prot paladins are far from the best class to do as such. I specified more healing than another class, not more healing. Compare yourself tanking 85% of the time to a guardian or a DK, especially when you're now required to sit below 69% hp constantly to ensure it procs. How viable is it on progression to be like "Let me constantly sit at 70% hp so my trinket can proc"

The point of it is, Prot paladins aren't great main tanks currently, we serve pretty amazingly as offtanks, but we definitely do not shine on prolonged tanking scenarios compared to the stronger classes, and to maximise this trinket you require your healers effectively letting you sit at 70% hp constantly, which with bosses hitting for 300-350k on mythic, seems like a rather dangerous place to remain for the entirety of an encounter. As i said, the trinket has its place, its just not first, rarely second.

[Rewyn]

Ah...well then I think I'll stick to the game I'm in. It's a shame that after so long, Blizzard can't balance things. In fact reading this reminded me of how bad they are about certain specs being godly and others being trash patch to patch..

[Kortiah]

All you haters complaining about Prot Paladins and Treckie hardly notices.

Some selfless, righteous individuals have been plaintively pointing out since the PTR that the 2p/Trink actually specifically target Prot Paladins' apparent deficiencies (Low EHP, low damage output). But most of the feedback in this thread has been petulant whining about the 4p and pointing to obvious bugs (eg the trink not appearing in logs).

When GMs and raid leaders of mid-tier guilds have only the prevailing sentiment to go by (i.e. you haters), we get told to reroll. So congrats on poisoning the well. I sure would like to try out Savior's Boon on live, I guess I'll have to wait for alt clears in a few months.

It's funny that you think good Heroic logs mean Prot Paladins aren't underpowered.

Looking forwards to your feedback when you'll get instagibbed in Mythic as we did during BRF because none of the issues of Prot Paladins are fixed. The 4pc IS shit, and adding 10% HPS to our self-healing won't fix anything (2pc).

[Ausr]

I feel a little dirty for saying this but I kinda enjoy not being insta gibbed while playing my new bear tank...

[Kortiah]

I played my warrior yesterday and got the WUE. I felt invicible when I dropped to 30% and stay there for 10sec without dieing on Enraged Fel lord Zakuun.

[Deleted]

I feel a little dirty for saying this but I kinda enjoy not being insta gibbed while playing my new bear tank...

Playing a Bear on Council/Kilrogg feels like cheating.
In a really positive way.

( Also Paragon running 2x Guardian tanks for the lulz. )

[Deleted]

Early days, but Bares are being more popular than paladins in heroic HFC according to warcraftlogs. Mayhaps the buffs from bears and complaints from paladins (which don't really apply to heroic to be fair) are taking hold?

[Deleted]

WUE seems good now but surely when tanks get their rings they won't need it that much longer? It kinda serves the purpose of being a nice thing that saves your life personally, and the tank ring will also do that. Surely kormok or veltari trinket is better alongside maybe class trinket or anzu?

[Deleted]

It's funny that you think good Heroic logs mean Prot Paladins aren't underpowered.

Looking forwards to your feedback when you'll get instagibbed in Mythic as we did during BRF because none of the issues of Prot Paladins are fixed. The 4pc IS shit, and adding 10% HPS to our self-healing won't fix anything (2pc).

I'd just ignore him, honestly. The post is nothing but self-righteous flamebait.

We get it, Fusoya. You're a genius and prot paladin is fine just like you've been saying all along. There's definitely no issue with HC Archimonde swinging for more than 2/3rds of our max HP when we take an unmitigated hit (320k melee hits, yup) and that's definitely not going to be a recurring problem in Mythic at all.

Maybe if you had listened instead of whinging self-righteously you'd have seen what we've actually been saying ever since PTR testing of bosses - we're still not in a great place, our tier bonuses are meh, but Holy Shield makes us significantly stronger than we were in BRF where we were an outright liability, and because there are more fights than in BRF where Holy Shield shines, we have more fights in HFC where we don't suck. The fact that we're now playable without the entire raid having to compensate for our deficiencies doesn't change the fact that we're still bottomfeeding together with the other plate tanks.

[Kortiah]

Can safely say WUE is a pretty solid trinket choice.

Was sceptical at first, but thought i'd try it out. Was my top source of healing/absorb for every fight basically.

I got it on my warrior yesterday and got very surprised too. I wasn't sure about it since Haste is very subpar for warriors, but I felt so much stronger with WUE+TTT than BFD+TTT, I'm not sure why.

Looking at the logs, it did about 1M absorb every fight (Gorefiend, Iskar, Zakuun, NM Archimonde), for about 4-5K HPS, but I FELT a lot stronger... Does anyone know if the trinket is reported correctly in the logs? It might have something to do with the reduction getting stronger the lower you get, hence giving a different feeling, but although the numbers definitely don't seem impressive, the results clearly surprised me.

[Reghame]

bottomfeeding off of the entire tank tree honestly, warriors are actually pretty OP with their class trinket, our warrior co tank was actually easier to keep alive on our progression thus far than our blood dk. the extra 10% physical dr from physical during barrier or being able to gain holy shield during shield block is crazy good.

monks are also super imba again btw and do like 50k hps with guard being like 70% of it because it has like no CD, they sort of work like dks where they take a couple big swings then heal it with expel and then guard for a long time.

whenever i had to tank though ( have not with class trinket yet, only had 4 set and no new trinkets ) i would be fine for a while then get smacked so hard by a random unmitigated hit and nearly die. if i didnt have 2 core holy paladins and a disc i would possibly not be able to tank most of this for progression. maybe it would be better when i try out the class trinket i dont know and i know for damn sure that anzu's or warlords is gona be imba as well but i dont think it will purely stop the near insta gib attacks.

( honestly though for trinkets for us, ATM i might stick with class and anzu for magic fights and warlords for physical since the mastery gain from anzu' is pretty consistent to work around for mitigation for magic damage but warlords is just too good on fights where you will dip low which is basically only physical heavy fights honestly.)

[Kazie]

okay so i spend the last couple of days reading here and i totally agree with holy shield actually becoming a thing this tier. However.. i'm an asshat with sims and i don't really have time to get into it.

It worked very well for me in HC last night with HS and HA tho i might go DS on some fights. About our stat priority.. are we still aiming for the haste cap or are we just going all mastery now?
I have to admit i feel a little passive now that i have dropped ES and no longer hits the 50% haste cap. I actually see myself hitting about 1k haste rating if i go change enchants to mastery as well tho.. But how do you guys see our stat priority atm.?

[Deleted]

After testing it on Archimonde, LoV is roughly a 10-15k TMI decrease on that particular fight. There are obviously fights where it is significantly worse for survivability (NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER USE IT ON TYRANT. NEVER. WUE. ALWAYS.), but on a lot of fights it's just fucking amazing.

[Ausr]

Playing a Bear on Council/Kilrogg feels like cheating.
In a really positive way.

( Also Paragon running 2x Guardian tanks for the lulz. )

Yeah, I'm enjoying cheating by dodging everything on those two fights. Muahahaha.