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  1. #261
    I honestly feel like Demo will play similar to how it is on live, minus the "awkward mechanics" (Hand of Gul'dan double stacks, Molten Core, etc.) and with a summon demons core mechanic instead of Meta stance dancing. I can see Demonic Fury being replaced with Fel Energy (same as our pets have, except for us it's built up manually), which will then be used to fuel summoning situational Guardian uber demons which burn through your Fel Energy much like Meta used to Fury. Basically, what we do in Meta on live will now be done by greater demon proxy. (Soul Fire/Demonbolt single target damage? Summon X. Chaos Wave aoe/cleave burst? Summon Y. Nether Plating or other Meta utility? Summon Z. Pet twist to your heart's desire, as long as you have the Fel Energy to sustain the summon.)

    Along a more radical line of thought, I could see the concept of greater Guardian demons made Demonology exclusive as part of its new core mechanic, with Affliction and Destruction single target/aoe damage being adjusted for the loss of the Infernal and Doomguard.

    However what I don't believe is that Demo's new army of demons will be that vast, as to not have the spec suffer from having too many damage sources. For that reason I could see Demonic Calling and Imp Swarm being removed, and Doom becoming a caster form spell with its crits being the only source of Wild Imps summons along with maybe Hand of Gul'dan.
    "Warlocks are the class that gives

    we give all our spells and abilities to other classes"

    - Bamboozer, from the Official WoW Warlock Forum

  2. #262
    Was that really a signature worthy quote?
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  3. #263
    I think of 2 other games that had a class that focus very heavily on multi pets and did it well. I be perfectly fine if demo went this way. City of Villains mmo that had the mastermind class. You end up with 7 pets. 1 was top pet and with 2 more that where a little bit weaker and then 4 remaining one weaker then them. Most of your abilities where built around debuffing your enemies so your minions could wreck them. You did have a few direct damage abilities.

    The other class I recall have a good pet system with good abilities was Bone Dancer from the mmo Dark age of Camelot. You had 3 pets active at a time. 1 pet your level with the other 2 slightly behind. You could choose from Tank,Melee dps, Physical range dps, Caster dps and healer for each pet spot. You had plenty of spells to support the pets or you could be the one wrecking stuff with the pets supporting you. This is style I could hope blizzard goes with or similar to it.

  4. #264
    Blizzard has yet to show that they can build an effective AI for 1 pet and 1 guardian, much less 3 or 7 active pets. It's always fun to see your first target die, and then watch your Doomguard run off and target something irrelevant, or even better just stand still doing nothing for 30 seconds.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Was that really a signature worthy quote?
    To me it was. Gotta capture the moment.
    "Warlocks are the class that gives

    we give all our spells and abilities to other classes"

    - Bamboozer, from the Official WoW Warlock Forum

  6. #266
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zevoa View Post
    Funny because I loved MoP demo and hated/continue to hate Destruction.
    That is because MoP Demo is basically a cooler version of old Destro.

    DoT up target, nuke the shit out of it. Now with stance-dance on top and no more instant Soulfire.


    New Destro is fucking disgustingly bad in it's design. It's Wrath Arcane Mage levels of idiotic. Only we gotta spam spells for half a minute to be able to at all make use of our CDs for 4 casts. I played Destro since Classic US Beta. MoP I played Demo (mostly Tank) and WoD I'm playing Affli. Cause I cba to raid with the current system (fuck doing raids 3 times over to hit mythic and 'beat' the raid) and such I PvP with the only viable spec. Which, btw, is also boring as fuck.

    The MoP rework kinda fucked up stuff harder than it fixed. It took a whole lot of what made the class have it's flavor away. Cata was in the right direction, I really don't know why they scrapped that. They just had to take some of their MoP ideas as well as some of the Wrath ideas and they'd have done a good job.
    Last edited by mmoc72f1823250; 2015-08-31 at 05:09 AM.

  7. #267
    Seems like you are talking about "regular" Destro so have you tried CR Xaragoth? It's much faster paced so you may like it better. There is no reason to run each difficulty of raid either but indeed some guilds make that choice. I think that you are kind of stuck with 2 though if you want the best aka fastest results.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaragoth View Post
    That is because MoP Demo is basically a cooler version of old Destro.

    DoT up target, nuke the shit out of it. Now with stance-dance on top and no more instant Soulfire.
    MoP Demo is a very slow spec compared to old Destro tbh, with a lot of focus on resource planning, not at all the target-switching nuking powerhouse that you're describing. On the other hand, Cata Demo was a pet-twisting cooldown-stacking unintuitive mess of a spec.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaragoth View Post
    New Destro is fucking disgustingly bad in it's design...

    Cata was in the right direction,.
    Uhh....

    Seems like you're a bit off in your views of what good and bad design are cause you have things as bass ackwards as they can get.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  10. #270
    Deleted
    Destro in SoO was perfect in my opinion. Plentiful ember generation and very fluid mechanics.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by striderZA View Post
    On the other hand, Cata Demo was a pet-twisting cooldown-stacking unintuitive mess of a spec.
    Was MoP really any better? I took one look at the amount of stance dancing and DoT optimizing the guides recommended and NOPED the hell out. It struck me as one of those John Madden specs that does great if you can handle the high complexity and does crap if you can't. In Siege we twisted the arm of the other Warlock in my raid team to switch to Destro, after he'd been Demo since Vanilla, and his raid DPS went up by 50%.

    Now I understand why someone who could master that level of complexity would miss it, but personally I'm quite happy that I can spec Demo again and not suffer for it.

  12. #272
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Uhh....

    Seems like you're a bit off in your views of what good and bad design are cause you have things as bass ackwards as they can get.
    I played PvP for all of Cata. That shit was fucking amazing. Soulburn & Harvest made PvP a blast as a Destro Lock, especially with how solid our CC was. MoP & WoD were pretty fucking awful by comparison outside of casting & moving. And new Destro is boring as fuck in PvE and unplayable in PvP. So no, I really don't.

    PvE Destro sucked balls in Cata, but then again, our entire class sucked balls in Cata PvE. I'd still take the clunky shit of Cata with some better numbers over current Destro though. At least we still had some interesting class mechanics instead of what we got now (outside of current Demo).

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Seems like you are talking about "regular" Destro so have you tried CR Xaragoth? It's much faster paced so you may like it better. There is no reason to run each difficulty of raid either but indeed some guilds make that choice. I think that you are kind of stuck with 2 though if you want the best aka fastest results.
    The reason to raid Mythic is to get an actual not clown-suit Tier set. Also that extra fight stuff at the final bosses. I hate how they lock that behind having to waste my time with 3 difficulty tiers to get some cosmetics for a transmog and some extra lore bits. Especially in a 20 man raid where most ppl don't want Locks over Huntards right now.

    CR Destro isn't really any better/more interesting than non-CR Destro. You still have a boring as fuck rotation, but your Chaosbolts line up better with your Dark Soul charges. The Spec is lacking in more interesting rotation twists and DoT interactions. Also going from Cata's Soulburn mechanics in PvP to Embers was fucking awful - especially after KJC was cut.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaragoth View Post
    I played PvP for all of Cata.
    Can't speak for pvp, so fair enough there.

    For PvE warlocks were a fucking mess in cata unlike anything I've ever seen, I was actually not going to play the class. The direction they went in for mop was head and shoulders above what warlocks were before, excluding demo which carried on being a mess.

    You can find something utterly boring and still be objective about how well its designed, and you can find something extremely fun and still recognize how poorly its designed.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  14. #274
    any chance to see felflame back in 7.0?

  15. #275
    Personally, for Destro this is what I'd like to see back / changed. I'm a PvE'r so these are all PvE perspective and not PvP

    -Charred Remains as a button-cooldown that increases ember generation for x amount of time and DOESN'T negatively impact the damage of Incin/Conflag/Immo
    -Felflame back, has 2 charges, just like DS with glyph they take time to regenerate
    -Molten Core back with Destro in it's current form; Let every cast-chaos bolt add a stack of Molten Core and once we're at X stacks give us a huge-massive SoulFire to cast
    -Ember generation back on RoF to help our AoE from feeling so clunky
    -Chaos Bolt first incarnation - pierces absorbs again
    -Empowered Imp back as a thing, I miss that little guy and dislike the sac-spec we have to play


    Few little things, I know some might seem like a huge wish list, but a boy can hope

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Destro in SoO was perfect in my opinion. Plentiful ember generation and very fluid mechanics.
    This...while dmg was too much, the spec felt great, now it just doesnt...

  17. #277
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by VredesbyrdGC View Post
    Personally, for Destro this is what I'd like to see back / changed. I'm a PvE'r so these are all PvE perspective and not PvP

    -Charred Remains as a button-cooldown that increases ember generation for x amount of time and DOESN'T negatively impact the damage of Incin/Conflag/Immo
    -Felflame back, has 2 charges, just like DS with glyph they take time to regenerate
    -Molten Core back with Destro in it's current form; Let every cast-chaos bolt add a stack of Molten Core and once we're at X stacks give us a huge-massive SoulFire to cast
    -Ember generation back on RoF to help our AoE from feeling so clunky
    -Chaos Bolt first incarnation - pierces absorbs again
    -Empowered Imp back as a thing, I miss that little guy and dislike the sac-spec we have to play


    Few little things, I know some might seem like a huge wish list, but a boy can hope
    Generally Destro suffers from a lack of interesting uses for Embers and a lack of gameplay variation in the rotation.

    I'd actually like to see Mana go away on Destruction entirely. Give us more HP instead of Mana, make all our spells 'burn' ourselves (aka all spells cost HP), then turn Embers into a mechanic where we burn more %hp per filled ember, but each filled ember also increases ember generation by 50%. The debuff could be 'Fel Corruption' or something and then give us a spell to purge it all for a HP return & damage. Basically bake Chaotic Ressources into the baseline spec.

    As for Felflame. I'd like it to return as a spell that costs Embers. It could synergize with Immolate again. Like you ignite the Immolate, dealing it's full damage + Felflame dmg instantly to the target and your next few Incinerates to that target give increased Embers. Could be that instant nuke we need for PvP, but without it being absurdly OP like Ice Lance.

    Also I'd like to see Backlash make a return as a PvP talent in the new system that instantly fills an ember when it procs and allows you to fire an instant Chaos Bolt. Destruction PvP needs mobility back after MoP&WoD ripped so much out.

    I honestly kinda want RoF to just go away entirely. Make Fire & Brimstone the core AoE playstyle and make it reliable. RoF can be given to Demo, because Hellfire is a stupid ability to have for a caster at this point (outside of PvP vs Feral/Rogue). Name it Rain of Chaos and make it leave behind patches of burning flames where it lands or something.


    Affli on the other hand needs reliable soulshard generation. Also Shadowbolt for Affli pls. Which could then apply Corruption baseline, reducing hotkeys by 1.
    And Soulburn Effects for all of the DoTs and Shadowbolt then. Give it some nice flavor, complexity and decision making again.

  18. #278
    Deleted
    Sounds a bit like Wizard from Warhammer Online.

  19. #279
    i'd like to see fel flame back: 3 charge, 15 sec recharge.

  20. #280
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Sounds a bit like Wizard from Warhammer Online.
    A little, I guess. Mana in Destruction right now fulfills one role only: going empty in time for a fully charged 4 embers & dark soul combo. It's well designed to teach newbies how the rotation works. The entire resource is pretty fucking pointless outside of that, especially with CR and everyone using google for specs anyways. So why the hell not go full chaotic corrupting fel energy that eats at your very essence to give you moar powah.

    So giving Embers a bigger mechanical impact and making Destruction more of a interesting spec at the same time would be nice.

    Generally the theme of Legion for Warlocks should be "bring back/improve X, because it was good flavor/needs to be gameplay relevant (again)" like Backlash & Shadowbolt for Affli.


    One thing I'd like to see either changed or killed off is the Gateway. It was a nice idea, but the orginal version broke encounters and the new version feels pretty damn useless outside of Arena. It's a crutch at this point.


    And a really fucking big change I want is that our pet only needs to see a target to use their skills on it when we tell it to. I hate that we have to have LoS of the target so our pet - which should be seperate from us - can silence/eat a buff off someone.



    Also gief Gul'dan spike mode for Demo :P

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