1. #19821
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    So he won't even need sentries to beat you out of the lane, nice. And, when you try to tango his sentries, he can tango yours as well, funny how that works.

    And are you implying gyro and riki are weak heroes? Not sure what I can say to that. Gyro and Ember are infinitely easier to kill than riki or BS. Given a team with no stuns or supports, looks like Gyro did pretty well to me. You keep seeing what you want to see, whether or not it reflects reality isn't important I guess. Whole conversation is pretty much meaningless as is, below the professional level dota is just a game of luck with who you get in matchmaking. Maybe after a few hundred games you can reduce the impact of matchmaking luck, but most of us don't play that much, and it won't make the losses any more bearable.

    Let's not forget that even within a small MMR range there is a huge skill difference in players. A 4k player who always randoms is better than a 5k player who only plays Storm TA QOP SF (see what I did there lmao). Lots and lots of people abused troll to go up in MMR so they could wave their 5k MMR dick around in the air while it lasted, most of them dropped back down to 4k and the cry posts on reddit when 6.84 came out about losing MMR were delicious.

    You clearly haven't played mid and it shows. You lack understanding of how it's played. He can eat my sentry, sure. But I will get his sentry 100% also. I don't need my sentry up, he does, and he will be the one that places it first.

    How the hell is Gyro easy to kill compared to BS? A BS just dies if he farms in a bad place with Q. It's one of his weakensses. I don't see what I want to see. I was in that game on the opposing team, mate. I felt the impact of the BS and Riki for the entire game. I didn't feel the impact from the rest of the team. I guessed their MMR before the game ended and then it was confirmed. How do I see what I want to see? I create a theory and it's confirmed at the end of the game. Not the opposite.


    ftfy m8
    Go make an alt account and play nothing but offlane and see if you can get half the MMR you have as mid, I'll be quite impressed. Hell, don't even make an alt, play your main and play nothing but offlane and see if you can even keep up the same MMR you currently have, I'll be quite impressed.
    To be honest, you sound like every other low MMR player who makes excuses for why they aren't higher. This comment has been seen hundered of times and it always come from the same people. "Play support and see if you can reach same MMR". You're asking a mid player to play offlane to see if he is as good on offlane as he is on mid. It's like asking Messi to play defender and see if he has same impact as he has as a forward. It's ridiculous. And even if I managed to do that you would still find some excuse for why it isn't valid. The same way I tried your little US East experiement and the players were equally bad and I still noticed the difference. You still won't admit you were wrong about that because that's you.

    You can blame it on luck all day when it comes to matchmaking but those who are high MMR don't think like that. They think about how they can win even with bad teammates. That's how they get better and that's the difference.

  2. #19822
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    You clearly haven't played mid and it shows.
    I played mid exclusively for 8 years, I just got bored of never losing my lane.
    How the hell is Gyro easy to kill compared to BS?
    BS has beyond-maximum movement speed, Gyro does not.



    To be honest, you sound like every other low MMR player who makes excuses for why they aren't higher.
    I am 5k, nice try though.

    You can blame it on luck all day when it comes to matchmaking but those who are high MMR don't think like that. They think about how they can win even with bad teammates. That's how they get better and that's the difference.
    Those who are "high mmr" are mid players, there's nothing more to this conversation than that. You see 10% of dota and think you know it all, but really you are just an average player who plays 3 heroes in one position and would drop 1500 MMR if and when bans are added to AP and you don't get to pick the broken shit anymore. We have played a lot of games together. You are not remarkable. Sorry. You're a solid player, but no more or less solid than any other 5k in the world. The reason you can't get to 6k as offlane isn't because you are a mid player, it's because getting 6k as an offlaner isn't really possible. It's just a fundamental setup of the game - those who have the most gold have the most impact, and those who play mid have the most gold. It's also why mid players are all arrogant twats, too. They get to beat up on heroes way weaker than them and it makes them think they're actually better players than those people, when it's really their massive advantage from having a safe solo lane that is carrying them. Let's go count how many top 200 players are not mid spammers, I would love to see the percentage of that. Even the pros that don't play mid for their teams usually play mid when they play pubs.

    I won't admit I'm wrong because you haven't really offered any proof. Playing 3 games on US east and then saying "I knew who the bad players were before the game ended" is a load of bullshit, anyone can do that, even if you were wrong you could say you were right and nobody has a way to prove otherwise.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #19823
    Is this the same Ariadne as before? With the WoW female undead avatar previously if I recall? I don't recall you two being at each others' throat like this before.

    I'm personally inclined to agree with Lysah on this one, in that overall I think Storm Spirit is stronger than TA is. That's coming from me, who generally still thinks the Storm Spirit hype/hate is often too hyperbolic to be very useful. The logic is that Storm Spirit may lose the midlane, but unless the TA is literally 14/0/5 or something by 20 minutes I don't think TA is going to be so out of crazy whack.

    On the other hand, Storm is pretty much always useful. Even if he's feeding, at least ball lightning into vortex is a fair chunk of damage and a stun, add in an item and he's pretty good to go, even if behind. Way I played around TA as Storm was being the counterinitiation when she went for ganks. Unless TA literally kills the gank target before I arrive I think you can be a fair bit useful in that.

  4. #19824
    Well we aren't really talking about storm anymore
    On that matchup I mostly agree with Manni, storm can't kill TA and TA can't kill storm, so they will both just avoid each other and feed off the other 8 heroes in the game. Though, the existence of storm is a much bigger hinderence to TA than the reverse, storm can easily gank near a tower and just zipzap away if TA shows up to help, the same cannot be said for TA's ganks.

    And we weren't at each other's throats before because he didn't used to think he was the best player in the world, he thought RTZ was. I guess after seeing RTZ get shitcanned several tournaments in a row and drop down to not even top 3 carry status in the world (despite what the fanboys think) he's decided he's better. Really, I'm going to take issue to anybody who argues with me with no substance to their argument. I stated an opinion (4ks and 5ks are basically the same) and he came in to try to "prove me wrong" with an argument that I can pretty much summarize as "I'm the best mid in the world and you are shit so I am right." It would be one thing if he really was the best mid in the world, but it's especially problematic since I've played plenty of games with him before and have seen first hand what his mid looks like. That just gives me much less patience for this attitude. Anyone who wants to jack off in this thread about how good they are is going to have a problem with me. None of us are very good at this game.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 04:51 PM.

  5. #19825
    Deleted
    Everyone always forgets the real power of a late game storm.

    You have to kill the fucker 3 times in a fight if you are on their side of the map.

  6. #19826
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    You have to kill the fucker 3 times in a fight if you are on their side of the map.
    When he has BoTs nowhere on the map is safe from buyback storm. Classic teleport to the creep wave mid and zipzap to the team fight bot in 2 seconds.

  7. #19827
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    When he has BoTs nowhere on the map is safe from buyback storm. Classic teleport to the creep wave mid and zipzap to the team fight bot in 2 seconds.
    And his 50 mana regen so it doesn't even matter if he uses all of it to get there.

    Fun hero to play against.

  8. #19828
    Deleted
    You judge my mid skills based on party AR unranked on US East with 200 ms? LOL. You think I took any of our games seriously or even played the way I normally play? What can you even see from my mid by watching me in party unranked with 200 ms? Do you see my mid mechanics? Nope. Do you see my farming patterns? Nope (I barely try to farm when playing unranked). Do you see me on my normal mid heores? Nope. It's like judging Arteezy's skills when he plays Pudge.

    You say I'd drop 1500 MMR if I didn't play OP heroes. I think what you mean is that I'd drop 1500 MMR if I didn't get to play any mid heroes. I don't even play the generally accepted broken heroes each patch and the heroes that people used to climb MMR. I play mid and if that somehow according to you makes me play OP heroes, sure. Tell me how I'm a FotM picker? Because I am the opposite of that.

    I still remember the days when you thought you were near top MMR and that was the reason for your long queue times before ranked was implemented. Unlike you, I don't make wild exaggerations and lie about games to prove my point. Whether or not you believe in that or not is another story. I say I shit on Storms (i.e I win 100% of my games against them). I link you proof. Done. You say Storms just go jungle and make miraculous comebacks in your games and don't link a single game where this happens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    I'm personally inclined to agree with Lysah on this one, in that overall I think Storm Spirit is stronger than TA is. That's coming from me, who generally still thinks the Storm Spirit hype/hate is often too hyperbolic to be very useful. The logic is that Storm Spirit may lose the midlane, but unless the TA is literally 14/0/5 or something by 20 minutes I don't think TA is going to be so out of crazy whack.

    On the other hand, Storm is pretty much always useful. Even if he's feeding, at least ball lightning into vortex is a fair chunk of damage and a stun, add in an item and he's pretty good to go, even if behind. Way I played around TA as Storm was being the counterinitiation when she went for ganks. Unless TA literally kills the gank target before I arrive I think you can be a fair bit useful in that.
    Agree with her all you want. But explain to me how I have a 100% win rate against Storm as TA the last 2 months or so. Luck as Lysah attribute it to?
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-14 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #19829
    I don't think it was ever about storms win rate but rather that hes guaranteed to have a ok game no matter how shit hes doing, like hes still going to be useful.

  10. #19830
    Deleted
    This whole discussion about Storm started because I linked a game where I said TA was a counter to Storm and that I said people don't know how to deal with Storm and that's why they lose to the hero.

  11. #19831
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    This whole discussion about Storm started because I linked a game where I said TA was a counter to Storm and that I said people don't know how to deal with Storm and that's why they lose to the hero.
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.

  12. #19832
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.
    Alone? You can't. The same way you can't stop a TA as a support alone. You need a team. I don't play support either so I don't think I'm the right person to ask. But generally how good supports play against my Storm is: They are aware of the map and where I am. If I'm off the map they don't stand on a lane farming (like many 4k supports do) and die and then blame "lolz OP Storm solo kills me from full HP". They TP fast when I jump on their cores and counter gank me. They sit behind cores they think will be ganked. They throw an occasional gank before level 6. They play heroes with stuns. Storm tries to solo kill your mid? Be a Lion and come out of fog and hex him and counter kill him. Counter-killing is one of the most important concepts against Storm. Lysah will say Storms just jump out after they go for the kill but I, as a seasoned Storm player, will tell you that isn't realistic. Lysah will then say I'm just bad at Storm but somehow Storms at 4k MMR play better than me and do that stuff.

    Positioning is key against Storm. I've played Storm through all brackets and as you go up in MMR you notice that you find less and less free support kills and you get punished more often when you try to go for solo kills.

    Playing support is all about how well you enable your cores I think. But don't take my word for it.
    Last edited by mmoc9f3c8526e6; 2015-09-14 at 06:00 PM.

  13. #19833
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    As a support how do you deal with storm is what i would ask.

    Okay you can beat him mid, how does a support who gets killed in 2 seconds stop him is the more important question.
    glimmer cape + ww/sky or anyone with instant lockdown

    dont go alone and always try to go behind the retard that go alone, if storm is good that's what hes going try to kill. glimmer cape pretty much fuck him up make any kill 300% harder than the classic jump orchid 2-3 hit + remnant and he'll die to the orchid.

    also gank him mid, annoy him and kill his courier
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-14 at 06:10 PM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  14. #19834
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    glimmer cape + ww/sky or anyone with instant lockdown

    dont go alone and always try to go behind the retard that go alone, if storm is good that's what hes going try to kill. glimmer cape pretty much fuck him up make any kill 300% harder than the classic jump orchid 2-3 hit + remnant and he'll die to the orchid.

    also gank him mid, annoy him and kill his courier

    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.

  15. #19835
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.
    Last time I got glimmer/shadow blade, the Storm Spirit bought Dust...I cried.

  16. #19836
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffler View Post
    Glimmer cape doesn't counter storm at all + its unlikely a pos 5 supp will have glimmer at 15 mins.
    doesn't it reduce the magic dmg by like 50%? it does help way too much vs him, solar crest help a lot too. yeah it wont stop him from killing you 1v1 if he has dust.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  17. #19837
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    I don't think it was ever about storms win rate but rather that hes guaranteed to have a ok game no matter how shit hes doing, like hes still going to be useful.
    Thank you for actually reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    You judge my mid skills based on party AR unranked on US East with 200 ms? LOL. You think I took any of our games seriously or even played the way I normally play? What can you even see from my mid by watching me in party unranked with 200 ms? Do you see my mid mechanics? Nope. Do you see my farming patterns? Nope (I barely try to farm when playing unranked). Do you see me on my normal mid heores? Nope. It's like judging Arteezy's skills when he plays Pudge.
    Yeah, yeah, the classic "I don't even try" bullshit excuse. I use that one all the time, too. I play with 200 ping on EU servers just fine, you can check my dotabuff record and see that EU west is my highest winrate area. Also, if you were good at more than 3 heroes in the game you would excel in all random, as I do, because you wouldn't be handicapped by getting a hero you aren't good with like most people are. Having Sven instead of TA in mid shouldn't affect your mechanics, if you were actually a good player. Last hitting and lane control work the exact same for everybody.

    Tell me how I'm a FotM picker? Because I am the opposite of that.
    You're right, storm TA and qop aren't fotm heroes at all lmao

    I still remember the days when you thought you were near top MMR and that was the reason for your long queue times before ranked was implemented.
    Because I was? I was in page 1 games every single game I played which was the metric back then. I have dozens of games played with pros, and not only pros, but pro stacks (playing against LGD pubstomp stack best memories). I remember the one hour + queues well, I don't miss them. I calibrated the maximum possible MMR allowed even after losing 9 of my 10 games. The only reason I'm not 7k is because I haven't played enough to be, it's a grind and nothing else, that's why people always call it "the MMR grind." Though, having said that, I'll admit I'm probably a 5-6k shitcan by now, I simply don't care enough about the game anymore and I'm sure my mechanics have slipped to some degree, I do find myself making all sorts of mistakes when I know better, I just can't be enough of a tryhard to win sometimes. At some point you simply need to have high APM and focus and it's hard for me to even stay awake in some games.

    I won't pretend I'm the best player in the world anymore. That might have been true a year or two ago when I was unemployed and could devote my entire consciousness into being perfect at dota, but I'm a casualfag now and I'm sure it's affected my skill level. If only other people were objective enough about their own shortcomings to admit the same thing.

    Agree with her all you want. But explain to me how I have a 100% win rate against Storm as TA the last 2 months or so. Luck as Lysah attribute it to?
    Because it's a team game and you and Storm are both only 1 person out of 10. You pick one of the few heroes in the game that he can't feed off of, that already goes a long way to beating him. I still don't consider a hero balanced just because it has 1 or 2 heroes that do okay against it, just like Leshrac isn't balanced simply because Antimage exists. Not that I even believe such an outrageous claim in the first place, one of the few times I wish I had dotabuff+ for these "discussions."

    And Glimmer helps a lot against Storm, but it won't save people, no, he still does a ton of right click damage.
    @Equalwin
    You realize your argument is essentially "bring 2-3 heroes to the fight"
    That does not make for a balanced hero. This is what I'm talking about. By simply being in the game at all, Storm forces your support to follow your hard carry around the map 100% of the time and never leave his side. And even that isn't enough, depending on the lineup, sometimes it takes both supports. Storm can just go AFK jungle while you all hump each other's legs out of fear and he's already doing more than pretty much any other hero in the game.

    The combination of mobility and damage is what makes heroes broken. Take a look at all the most popular picks right now and what do they all have in common? QoP, Lesh, Lina, Ember, Storm, Cyka, AM, PL all very mobile heroes with a ton of damage.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2015-09-14 at 06:59 PM.

  18. #19838
    well what do you want? being able to go alone roaming for the map and storm nerfed so he can't kill you 1v1 anymore?

    sorry but that wont happen, hes a ganker after all and you need the supports to be near a carry if there aren't any tower left, or just have a tp.
    qop lesh lina am pl all can do the same as storm, run/blink at you and u'll probably die if theres no help.

    I dont see storm having more than 50% wr hes just meta now because sumail (pubs) in pro games hes average and do lose games.

    I remember few weeks ago u also were complaning about sf needing a nerf iirc, where is he at now?

    how to beat storm? its not that hard, dont be dumb enough to go alone letting him farm bloodstone charges, push as 5 (aka sf mek, ez lane ez game)

    I think you only play vs storm that snowball and have 30 bloodstone charges aka infinite mana and ur team has no lockdown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also just saw ur dotabuff, you've 4k unranked games and 150 ranked? wot

    also those games where u said u lost 8 times in a row to storm, you've literally no lockdown in those games, what you expect
    Last edited by EqualWin; 2015-09-14 at 08:15 PM.
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  19. #19839
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Yeah, yeah, the classic "I don't even try" bullshit excuse. I use that one all the time, too. I play with 200 ping on EU servers just fine, you can check my dotabuff record and see that EU west is my highest winrate area. Also, if you were good at more than 3 heroes in the game you would excel in all random, as I do, because you wouldn't be handicapped by getting a hero you aren't good with like most people are. Having Sven instead of TA in mid shouldn't affect your mechanics, if you were actually a good player. Last hitting and lane control work the exact same for everybody.
    Excuse? I used the same reasoning 2 years ago when I said AR didn't mean anything. I also used the same reasoning 4 pages ago when I said I didn't judge Hermanni's skills based on what he did when he played with me. I'm not good at heroes I don't play? Sure. I agree with that. Do I play more than 3 heroes? Yes. Mid Sven same as TA when it comes to mechanics? LOL. Yeah, you clearly don't understand mid. It's just a coincidence that about any high MMR player have lower party MMR than solo MMR. They try equally as hard, I bet.


    You're right, storm TA and qop aren't fotm heroes at all lmao
    ?
    I play mid, therefore I play mid herores. Again, sorry if that makes me play OP heroes. I don't play Leshrac or Lina (which are abused the most by high MMR players). I didn't play Sniper last patch. I didn't play TB/Ember when they were new and OP. I stopped playing Tinker whe he became FotM. I didn't play TA when she was just released and every one was playing her. I've been playing Storm since Dota 2 release and wrote a guide for Storm for playdota.com which was top 3 rated at its release and granted me a super early Dota 2 beta key but I didn't know about the beta key because I wasn't playing Dota at that time. I have played QoP since Dota 2 release too. It's like saying all Warlock players in WoW were FotM players.

    Because I was? I was in page 1 games every single game I played which was the metric back then. I have dozens of games played with pros, and not only pros, but pro stacks (playing against LGD pubstomp stack best memories). I remember the one hour + queues well, I don't miss them. I calibrated the maximum possible MMR allowed even after losing 9 of my 10 games. The only reason I'm not 7k is because I haven't played enough to be, it's a grind and nothing else, that's why people always call it "the MMR grind." Though, having said that, I'll admit I'm probably a 5-6k shitcan by now, I simply don't care enough about the game anymore and I'm sure my mechanics have slipped to some degree, I do find myself making all sorts of mistakes when I know better, I just can't be enough of a tryhard to win sometimes. At some point you simply need to have high APM and focus and it's hard for me to even stay awake in some games.
    What MMR did you calibrate at to say it was the highest possible? Keep lying or be delusional.

    Because it's a team game and you and Storm are both only 1 person out of 10. You pick one of the few heroes in the game that he can't feed off of, that already goes a long way to beating him. I still don't consider a hero balanced just because it has 1 or 2 heroes that do okay against it, just like Leshrac isn't balanced simply because Antimage exists. Not that I even believe such an outrageous claim in the first place, one of the few times I wish I had dotabuff+ for these "discussions."
    Yes, Storm can't do anyting against me and I can't do anything against Storm yet 100% win rate for me. Must be luck.

  20. #19840
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Agree with her all you want. But explain to me how I have a 100% win rate against Storm as TA the last 2 months or so. Luck as Lysah attribute it to?
    Quite honestly, if you're ever at 100% winrate the answer is "yes, you're lucky". I think that goes for literally every matchup.

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