Is taking advantage of someone drunk Rape?

[Notshauna]

See this exactly when people say there is a rape culture. Because apparently nearly half of the people polled think that "taking advantage" of someone who is drunk does not constitute rape. When you are drunk enough to lose your inhibitions you lose you're ability to consent because you've lost your awareness of the situation. Seriously it's fucking disgusting to believe anyone thinks otherwise, and I know history will paint these beliefs as the barbaric drivel they are.

[Deleted]

Seriously it's fucking disgusting

Really? So all those billions and billions of people who have had sex while drunk were raped?

I've had sex while drunk. Who the hell are you to claim that I was raped?

[Notshauna]

Yeah, unless you were drugged/spiked somehow without your consent and can prove as much you really have no grounds to call rape.

Again, personal accountability is always in play when you're making these choices to get drunk, high, etc. If what results of that wasn't what you wanted because you were too out of your mind to say 'no' or to think better of the situation, that is ultimately, still your fault. Sorry.

I've got no mercy nor sympathy for anyone on this matter. Get your shit together.

Not at all. It's not even the tiniest part the victims fault. It's entirely the sub-human slime's. It's something you had a role in allowing to happen, but that is NOT fault.

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Really? So all those billions and billions of people who have had sex while drunk were raped?

I've had sex while drunk. Who the hell are you to claim that I was raped?

You've had sex at the point where you have lost "all inhibitions and self-restraint"? If so, then yes you were raped.

[bewbew]

See this exactly when people say there is a rape culture. Because apparently nearly half of the people polled think that "taking advantage" of someone who is drunk does not constitute rape. When you are drunk enough to lose your inhibitions you lose you're ability to consent because you've lost your awareness of the situation. Seriously it's fucking disgusting to believe anyone thinks otherwise, and I know history will paint these beliefs as the barbaric drivel they are.

"There is a rape culture because people disagree with me and believe in personal responsibility. The barbarians! One day, no one will be responsible for anything."

We're not talking about passed out drunk.

Most decisions people ever take in life are not logical at all. They are emotional. Emotional decisions are not made in your best, most reasonable judgement.

Being drunk is just another scenario of having your judgement impaired.

When I got into debt for really, really desiring a pair of badasss boots, I was buying those against my BETTER judgement. Logically, I certaintly didnt' NEED them - I had plenty of other boots, and I wasn't attending to anything special in the near future. But I fell in love with them (emotions, clouded judgement).

I still have to pay for them.

[Notshauna]

"There is a rape culture because people disagree with me and believe in personal responsibility. The barbarians! One day, no one will be responsible for anything."

We're not talking about passed out drunk.

Most decisions people ever take in life are not logical at all. They are emotional. Emotional decisions are not made in your best, most reasonable judgement.

Being drunk is just another scenario of having your judgement impaired.

When I got into debt for really, really desiring a pair of badasss boots, I was buying those against my judgement. Logically, I certaintly didnt' NEED them - I had plenty of other boots, and I wasn't attending to anything special in the near future. But I fell in love with them (emotions, clouded judgement).

I still have to pay for them.

That's a ridiculous argument, because it's not the question asked in the poll. You're so busy arguing with an illusionary partisan opponent that you've ignored the very question. I'll repeat it.

"Is it rape to take advantage of someone's loss of all inhibitions and self restraint that they wouldn't have had sex if they was sober"

That's CLEARLY rape, there is no possible argument against it. It clearly points to a predatory nature and the victim being unable to consent, because they've lost all inhibitions, you could of asked to sacrifice them to the sun and they'd of responded the exact same way. And beyond that just because predatory practice exists, it doesn't make it any more virtuous, predatory practices are immoral by their nature.

[Todesbote]

If they are coherent and can still give consent and do give consent it's something that should be legal but is still a shitty thing to do. However: if you regret it the next morning that does not mean it retroactively becomes a rape all of a sudden.
You drink too much and lose your inhibitions and give consent and now you hate yourself the next day? Stop crying rape, start making smarter choices and quit drinking too much.

[bewbew]

That's a ridiculous argument, because it's not the question asked in the poll. You're so busy arguing with an illusionary partisan opponent that you've ignored the very question. I'll repeat it.

"Is it rape to take advantage of someone's loss of all inhibitions and self restraint that they wouldn't have had sex if they was sober"

That's CLEARLY rape, there is no possible argument against it. It clearly points to a predatory nature and the victim being unable to consent, because they've lost all inhibitions, you could of asked to sacrifice them to the sun and they'd of responded the exact same way. And beyond that just because predatory practice exists, it doesn't make it any more virtuous, predatory practices are immoral by their nature.

Ahem.

"Im not referring to passed out drunk or incoherent drunk. I'm referring to drunk enough to loose all inhibitions all self restraint drunk. the level of drunkenness you will do things you wouldn't do sober "

Bolded what makes it clear the person is drunk but not falling around and blabering and vomiting on your boots. The person in question just have "impaired judgement" and "will later regret the decisions he made".

That's the definition of bad judgement.

Just as with my analogy.

Let's take it a step further.

in·hi·bi·tion (ĭn′hə-bĭsh′ən, ĭn′ə-)
n.
1. The act of inhibiting or the state of being inhibited.
2. Something that restrains, blocks, or suppresses.
3. Psychology Conscious or unconscious restraint of a behavioral process, desire, or impulse.

So all the alcohol did was take off the barrier and made the person do what THE PERSON ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO.

And you're saying that a person doing what she actually desired to do is rape.

[Deleted]

You've had sex at the point where you have lost "all inhibitions and self-restraint"? If so, then yes you were raped.

Yes, I have, and no, I wasn't. See, that's like your opinion, man. You're not an authority on this issue, neither moral nor legal.

[Deleted]

"sexual acts they are unwilling to participate in."

?

How is one willing to participate and not giving consent? Your post is empty disagreement.

No, force or intimidation is not a requirement.

[bewbew]

No, force or intimidation is not a requirement.

If no force or intimidation is required, what is...forcing you to do something you are unwilling to do?

[Raelbo]

It could be, depending on the context. The way you phrased the question though, specifically with the use of the phrase "taking advantage" I would say yes.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Not at all. It's not even the tiniest part the victims fault. It's entirely the sub-human slime's. It's something you had a role in allowing to happen, but that is NOT fault.

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You've had sex at the point where you have lost "all inhibitions and self-restraint"? If so, then yes you were raped.

Actually, you had a role in completely avoiding and preventing the situation from arising in the first place.

The problem with these cases is the complexity of them and how difficult it is to determine their validity to begin with. It's too much of a "she said he said" type of scenario. It's much easier, at the end of the day, to safeguard yourself. Know your limits. Know your surroundings. Know your company. I'm a male and I RARELY go out alone much less let myself get so lost in my drink that I lose any sense of control/knowing of what's going on around me.

Take responsibility for yourself. There is a significant difference between what we're discussing here and getting raped out on the street.

[Flutterguy]

If that's rape, there are a lot of rape babies out there.

[Raelbo]

"Im not referring to passed out drunk or incoherent drunk. I'm referring to drunk enough to loose all inhibitions all self restraint drunk. the level of drunkenness you will do things you wouldn't do sober "

There are nuances here. It depends on why the person wouldn't do those things while sober. If it's because they lack courage/self confidence, it very different to having reservations about the act.

And you're saying that a person doing what she actually desired to do is rape.

That's a strawman argument.

[Notshauna]

Ahem.

"Im not referring to passed out drunk or incoherent drunk. I'm referring to drunk enough to loose all inhibitions all self restraint drunk. the level of drunkenness you will do things you wouldn't do sober "

Bolded what makes it clear the person is drunk but not falling around and blabering and vomiting on your boots. The person in question just have "impaired judgement" and "will later regret the decisions he made".

That's the definition of bad judgement.

Just as with my analogy.

Let's take it a step further.

in·hi·bi·tion (ĭn′hə-bĭsh′ən, ĭn′ə-)
n.
1. The act of inhibiting or the state of being inhibited.
2. Something that restrains, blocks, or suppresses.
3. Psychology Conscious or unconscious restraint of a behavioral process, desire, or impulse.

So all the alcohol did was take off the barrier and made the person do what THE PERSON ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO.

And you're saying that a person doing what she actually desired to do is rape.

The operative word is ALL. That means that no matter what you suggest to this person they'd respond the same, they've lost the ability to say no. Consent can't be given if you can't say no. Of course that is an extreme example, real world ones are more muddy, as the time with no inhibition but still conscious/coherent is fleeting indeed. But, there is a huge difference between impaired judgement and having lost all inhibitions, a person with no inhibitions isn't able to make choice, whereas a person with impaired judgement is able to but is more likely to make the wrong one.

Also inhibitions aren't things stopping you from doing what you want to do, rather the reason(s) why you don't want to do that. In this example it would be lack of attraction to the person taking advantage to you for example.

[bewbew]

There are nuances here. It depends on why the person wouldn't do those things while sober. If it's because they lack courage/self confidence, it very different to having reservations about the act.

If they have reservations but change their mind due to emotionally impaired judgement, you still changed your mind and made a new decision. That's just empty dialetic.

That's a strawman argument.

"It clearly points to a predatory nature and the victim being unable to consent, because they've lost all inhibitions, you could of asked to sacrifice them to the sun and they'd of responded the exact same way."

That was his point.

If losing inhibitions is, by definition, to do what one truly desires, and if one is a willing participant it's not rape, then...I'm right.

People toss "strawman" around and don't even know what it means. I didn't make up his argument, I directly pointed out the contradiction in saying "losing inhibitions" means "you are taking decisions that are completly out of the real you".

If anything, losing inhibition is about BEING the "true" you.

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they've lost the ability to say no.

Source needed.

People with impaired judgements don't lose the ability to say "no".

Also inhibitions aren't things stopping you from doing what you want to do, rather the reason(s) why you don't want to do that. In this example it would be lack of attraction to the person taking advantage to you for example.

Presenting your own definition contrary to dictionary sources.

[Notshauna]

Actually, you had a role in completely avoiding and preventing the situation from arising in the first place.

The problem with these cases is the complexity of them and how difficult it is to determine their validity to begin with. It's too much of a "she said he said" type of scenario. It's much easier, at the end of the day, to safeguard yourself. Know your limits. Know your surroundings. Know your company. I'm a male and I RARELY go out alone much less let myself get so lost in my drink that I lose any sense of control/knowing of what's going on around me.

Take responsibility for yourself. There is a significant difference between what we're discussing here and getting raped out on the street.

I agree but that's not really fault. Taking safety precautions is something we should be teaching people to do, but failing to do so and having another person prey on you for doing so isn't fault. Because ultimately you should be able to drink with impunity and not have to worry about someone raping you because you did.

[Thrif]

Nah. People get drunk for the very reason to lose inhibition. If you later end up regretting it, though call.

I'm kinda surprised the "yes" side is winning this to be honest. SJWs everywhere.

[Deleted]

Lets say you have someone underage who intentionally gets an adult intoxicated and stays sober while trying to seduce them. Which one is the rapist? If both parties are unable to consent, which wins?

[bewbew]

I agree but that's not really fault. Taking safety precautions is something we should be teaching people to do, but failing to do so and having another person prey on you for doing so isn't fault. Because ultimately you should be able to drink with impunity and not have to worry about someone raping you because you did.

Your definition of rape is ridiculous and allows for people to mutually rape one another.