[Megathread] DotA 2

[EqualWin]

Situational, with the terrible range and damage on fireblast I wouldn't recommend him for newbies or solo queue. It's pretty unlikely he gets kills by himself now, and he isn't a very good defensive support, so if your team sucks there won't be a lot you can do about it. I wish being tanky enough to go offlane was a selling point for him, but there are so many heroes that got overbuffed and can go AFK in the offlane now that he really is nothing special.

his W is his best skill before lvl 6, also get oov and run at anything while being immortal. hes fine, you just gotta abuse his immortal status i guess newbies wont.

well, we can say the same about lich offlane then, hes really nothing special apart from a mek (if u go for it) and deny a bit of carry farm but he'll get free jungle and kill ur t1 easily if they go for it.
I'd take doom offlane for ez mmr anyday, or clock/tusk/dank seer. core lich is underwhelming

edit: tho hes really good for dual lanes off, or any dual lane. as long he leaves the farm for a useful hero

[Kuntantee]

I claim you can't stop Lich from getting farm due to the reasons I stated above. You can call it whatever you want and you'll still be wrong.

"I provided arguments, so I am right" is laughable at best because this is called discussion and you were given counter arguments. You can carry on by proving my points wrong or we can stop discussing it.

[Lysah]

I'd take doom offlane for ez mmr anyday

Yeah, we'd all love to just play the overpowered hero of the patch every single game

[Hermanni]

"I provided arguments, so I am right" is laughable at best because this is called discussion and you were given counter arguments. You can carry on by proving my points wrong or we can stop discussing it.

Your only argument is that the 2v1 lane can kill Lich. You can't rely on that happening in high level play and if it doesn't Lich wins. Even if you kill Lich once he still probably wins. And I already said as much, so there's not much more to discuss.

If you don't believe me: XP range is 1300, and since you're assuming Slark + CM is the magical counter I might have to note that Slark is melee. So there's probably gonna be at least 1000 units between them which takes no boots Slark at least 3 seconds to cross to a safe Pounce range if Lich doesn't move at all. If CM starts moving towards Lich a good Lich player moves slightly further away from creep wave and then slams CM with Nova and right clicks. If Slark starts moving towards Lich he just runs for it and between CM's 1,5 second immobilize and 20% slow at level 2 Slark probably won't get anywhere near Lich until he reaches Tower range. Maybe if Lich pushed way past side shop and Slark lands a great 500 unit pounce. At higher levels it might happen if CM neglects skilling aura entirely, but by the time CM is 5 Lich has been level 6 for a while and can probably get a counter kill from CM. And all of this is, of course, assuming Lich actually wants to risk going more than 500 units outside his towers attack range. Which he doesn't really have to do.

[EqualWin]

Yeah, we'd all love to just play the overpowered hero of the patch every single game

true, but even there are tons offlaners better than lich. I think hes only good if for dual lanes where hes the support.

[Kuntantee]

It's a joy to watch Team Secret destroying EG.

[Charge me Doctor]

just witnessed naix ancient golem bullshit. What a pile of bullshit

[EqualWin]

classic ppd strat, let other teams win pointless tournaments, then win the most important ones just wait! Kappa

[Longview]

peter dager saving strats for ti I'm sure

[Lysah]

I find it funny how everyone was circlejerking over Monkey and they got smashed and now nobody cares about them again.

[Longview]

I don't think placing 3/4 and tieing with ti5 2nd place team after qualifying is bad by any stretch of the imagination. It's not #1 or bust.

[Kuntantee]

classic ppd strat, let other teams win pointless tournaments, then win the most important ones just wait! Kappa

More like they win only when enemy team perform poorly. CDEC game, Secret game, same shit, even in TI5. When they start making stupid mistakes EG punishes, otherwise, they are bound to lose.

And to be honest, if Team Secret can destroy EG with a PA which was nothing but a burden in the game, it's clear indication that TS is a superior team.

[Lysah]

I don't think placing 3/4 and tieing with ti5 2nd place team after qualifying is bad by any stretch of the imagination. It's not #1 or bust.

Teams have disbanded over second place before, so I don't know, it does kind of feel like it is #1 or bust most of the time. I don't have high hopes for them going into the major, anyway.

And EG was undoubtedly the best team in the world at TI. I think their roster is pretty terrible now, though. They took arguably the best hyper carry player in the world and turned him into a jungle stack bitch, they keep giving sumaiL weird ass heroes that he can't make plays with, and RTZ just is not as good as everyone seems to think he is, the RTZ curse is real. Where, before, you had sumaiL feeding in one lane and Fear calmly farming up in another so he can carry late game, now you have sumaiL feeding in one lane and RTZ feeding in the other.

I really wish teams could get past their drama infighting shit and learn to work through problems. Maybe they didn't get along with aui all that well but they had a working team and their job is not to have fun and make friends, their job is to win.

[Release]

More like they win only when enemy team perform poorly. CDEC game, Secret game, same shit, even in TI5. When they start making stupid mistakes EG punishes, otherwise, they are bound to lose.

And to be honest, if Team Secret can destroy EG with a PA which was nothing but a burden in the game, it's clear indication that TS is a superior team.

It's not a clear indication of anything. There is so much variance in Dota it's impossible to call who is the better team until they've played a ton of matches over a long period of time. If you looked at game 2 only where EG shit all over Secret you would say they were better? Right now I would say Secret have the edge in execution and strategy but in terms of raw talent and skill I still favour EG.

[Lysah]

Calling it now, Secret will get eliminated from Frankfurt faster than they got kicked out of Seattle.

[Kuntantee]

Calling it now, Secret will get eliminated from Frankfurt faster than they got kicked out of Seattle.

I hope not...Puppy's drafts are fun to watch.

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It's not a clear indication of anything. There is so much variance in Dota it's impossible to call who is the better team until they've played a ton of matches over a long period of time. If you looked at game 2 only where EG shit all over Secret you would say they were better? Right now I would say Secret have the edge in execution and strategy but in terms of raw talent and skill I still favour EG.

I actually think exact the opposite. In terms of raw skill, CDEC, Secret and VG are above EG, however, EG is disciplined and synchronized which other teams lack. They do not make mistakes that often.

@Hermanni
I actually do not find energy to carry on this discussion. I get your points and I actually didn't disagree on getting xp. I only disagreed on farming gold.

[EqualWin]

I hope not...Puppy's drafts are fun to watch.

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I actually think exact the opposite. In terms of raw skill, CDEC, Secret and VG are above EG, however, EG is disciplined and synchronized which other teams lack. They do not make mistakes that often.

lmao, do u forget that eg has sumail rtz and universe? pretty much the best at their position. best captain, and one of the best player that can play anything.
RTZ > EE
Sumail>w33
universe> misery
puppey > fear
ppd =Pie
ppd = puppey in term of being captain atm, with meepo and brood being a must ban vs secret its hard to draft, but overall ppd > puppey. I think this was the 1st time that puppey (as captain) beat ppd ?

cdec
rtz=agressive
sumail>shuki or w.e thier mid name is
universe> the offlaner
garden>fear
Q=>PPD (term of skill q is better imo, but ppd is better captain overall)

VG
rtz >burning
sumail > super
universe = icex3
fear < fy
ppd < fenrir

but ppd > fy captain

anyway this are my opinions which r kinda biased but still, they're at least equally if not better skilled.

[Lysah]

I hope not...Puppy's drafts are fun to watch.

Yeah they're actually looking pretty strong, solid play all around that I saw except for a few EE dives but those only happened when the game was already won.

I just wanted to get my prediction in so I can gloat about how right I was reddit style in the off chance it actually happens.


It'll be sad to see EG get stomped in Frankfurt. I do think their loss to Secret was more them not playing seriously than it was Secret being a better team, but there's no guarantee they can overcome that problem in a month. They have several of the best players in the world in my opinion, but that isn't enough to win (all) games.

[Jester Joe]

Teams have disbanded over second place before, so I don't know, it does kind of feel like it is #1 or bust most of the time. I don't have high hopes for them going into the major, anyway.

Honestly feels like an issue with games in general, unless you're number one, you might as well quit is the vibe that comes out from the pro scene.

[Kuntantee]

@EqualWin

I am not sure about RTZ, I've watched him with special care last night, couldn't catch any special contribution to the games.