Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Legion]

It's still an MMO.

So is Global Offensive.

[Kyanion]

I can replace that with Blizzard and make just as much sense as you did. If not more. Nost team did nothing to warrant this reaction, yet Blizzard did.

Nost team did nothing to warrant this reaction? Yeah hosting an illegal private server is totally okay. *eyeroll*

[AeneasBK]

Tbh when it comes to questing I think wrath got it just right. Quests that were easy and a few quests that required a group but even the solo ones punished you a bit for a mistake.

And that's just one example. I touched upon it earlier in the thread with Zorkuus and Rorcana but neither of them seemed interested in persuing it. Saying "You can still make your group in trade chat and walk to the dungeon if you want" is not a lie. But it's not really the truth either, certainly the majority of the responses you'll get is "Um, you know there's a LFG tool" or you'll get the reputation on your server for being "the kook that makes his group from trade" (seen that happen at least :P).

The trouble is, the single player market is much bigger than the MMO market so Blizzard steadily over time transformed their game into a fully single player accessable game. Absolutely their right, it's their toy. But it is absolutely no suprise that it's left a large crowd of people (and Nos was, after all, only *1* of the many servers out there, and apparently not even the largest) who still want that experience.

And personally I'm still not particularly swayed by the arguments that Blizzard couldn't make it profitable. There has to be a compromise somewhere between "making profit off Blizz's IP" and "Not cost efficient enough to do". Maybe they could consider not linking it with the rest of their battle.net architecture, I don't know; if thats worse for them than constantly chasing up the droves of P.servers that will spring up then fair enough. When they do eventually do legacy servers (however long in the future that turns out to be) we'll see how they decided to go about it.

[Propainn]

Tough shit, Blizzard said they don't want to have official Vanilla Servers. Keep yelling about it all you want, how many times does Blizzard have to say NO before you get it through your skull? And you say I am the slow one? And on top of that you try and heap extra insults at the community because you don't get your way. I don't want Blizzard wasting manpower/money/time on making Vanilla Servers I want them focused on Legion and the expansion after that. So like I said, get over it. Blizzard said NO.

Nah, gonna keep doing my thing. It's funny how rustled your jimmies get by that.

There's just no point in taking it seriously here.

[Viikkis]

So you don't really want my old car?

I will not accept it unless it's a lambo

[Kyanion]

Tbh when it comes to questing I think wrath got it just right. Quests that were easy and a few quests that required a group but even the solo ones punished you a bit for a mistake. It wasn't too easy but it wasn't too hard.

I had a great time with TBC's questing but WotLK was pretty good as well. As we know Cata was the real start of getting things too easy and not as fun in the grouping content out in the open world.

[Eleccybubb]

So you don't really want my old car?

If you want me to have it then sure. If I take it from you without your permission then it's stealing?

[zorkuus]

So you don't really want my old car?

If you want to give it to me then go ahead. If not, I won't steal it. How hard was that?

[Kyanion]

A day or two ago I would've said I've seen worse. I'm starting to question that. The botbanwave QQ's got nothing on this shit.

Though you have to admit, that discussion was FAR more entertaining.

[urasim]

The comparison you made renders your point invalid. It's like comparing a carburetor with dogshit.
You know what thieving is? When D3 had the auction house and Blizzard profited from transactions with stolen money, as I've mentioned earlier.

Comparison? Do you even know what my point was? Why would you even post this if you can't fucking understand a simple point I was making? I don't even know how else to put it... You simple don't have the intellect to understand what people are saying. How old are you? You sound like my five year old niece when she's told she can't have something...

[Propainn]

Calling a mod shitposting is constructive. You've been one of the more angry posters I've seen on this forum. Gratz

There was a mod posting baseless information about rumors that have been proven false. Someone in a position of authority making an unsubstantiated post, and claiming it as fact is the epitome of shit posting to me.

Also yeah, I guess all of those people calling people a cancer for liking something they don't, and telling people to kill themselves were pretty chill dudes.

[Kelz]

Well I do feel it was wrong. I feel that PS can take away from the community of retail WoW by having people leave the game to go and play on free servers. It also means Blizzard has to waste money/resources dealing with people hosting these servers. It is wonderful that they were passionate about it but it does not make it right, at all.

I understand that people want the Vanilla experience again (or for the first time) but Blizzard has said many times that they do not wish to pursue it at this time. That should be the end of it. Just because you disagree and are passionate about it does not make it right to create a PS.

Even though Nost was free, I can't see the entire population flocking there simply just because of that. People argue "Nost was only popular because it was free end of story". Not true. Was it an advantage? Yes it was. Have you tried looking at it instead of it being popular because it was free, being free because it was a private server? I still hold an active retail subscription, so I am not personally interested just because it is free. That isn't to say that everyone on that server held the same opinion, however, it's population was not just because it was free, as I have stated before you and many others before me, that they would be willing to pay for something like this.

I've never advocated for the public availability of private severs because I know they are illegal. I played on one and enjoyed it immensely, but I still know engaging in that is lawfully wrong. My discussion in this thread has only been for the idea to change Blizzard's point of view on why the implementation of a legacy server might be a good idea.

[Pwellzor]

I understand that you believe you are a lawyer, let me ask you a question.

Have you ever been sued in a copyright infringement case? Have you ever represented a client in a copyright infringement case? Have you ever launched a copyright infringement lawsuit?

Unfortunately it is not as simple as you state, there are many stages of copyright infringement, for one you appear to live in Sydney yet you cite the DMCA, do you realise that the DMCA is actually an american law and not an international one? Do you realise that the american DMCA and the european equivalant is 2 different things?

Are you aware that emulation is not always tied to copyright infringement, and is in many cases not at all copyright infringement? Are you aware that any software purchased in a european member state is locally owned by whoever purchased it, and can be used in any way, shape or form the buyer wants, so long it does not include redistribution of this local copy?.

It is important to note that private servers are emulators, if anyone here had any idea of how a private server works, or how reverse engineering in itself works they would know that theres not a shred of original code in any of the WoW emulators currently around. With that it is also important to note that there have been several previous cases where emulators have been ruled legal by the court, for example the Sony VS Bleem case here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit

When the redistribution of copyrighted content takes place, infringement can be an issue, an emulator is not this. The problem is the distribution of client software(such as WoW 12.1) to users that do not own the rights to this client(that never purchased it) not the fact that an emulated server allows a locally modified client to access it.

It is NOT as simple as you make it seem, and i would really hope that you take your time to read up on emulators and previous cases, theres several of these including cases where nintendo have attempted to sue emulators and severely failed to do so.

Discussing the legality of private servers, and nost in particular is a little silly because we have yet to actually have a verdict on this particular situation, i dont know for certain what the verdict would be, neither do you, but history says its uncertain, and as such you cannot label it like you are.

From australian copyright law regarding games

Copyright protection and games
Elements of games that may be protected by copyright
The categories or types of material protected by copyright include:
 literary works (such as written text, compilations of questions, words or symbols, and
computer programs);
 artistic works (such as photographs, drawings, diagrams and designs);

Cool, now that that is out of the way.

[Vector Sigma]

From my PoV (long known game bugs) yeah, only once.

I didn't included anything else, I meant fixing the client. I mean those 'shitty pirates' were doing it for free, it seems we forget every year Blizzard has more people and takes longer to put out content and they make LESS of it.

So now we're getting used to this situation where asking for something it's almost taboo or makes you feel guilty cause "muh raid tieers", how can they be producing LESS and SLOWER if they're ever growing? They need to do something, what the heck have they done so far?

<just pats your sad little head>

It's amazing how delusional freeloaders are.

[AeneasBK]

Speaking of removing nuance. Just because a turtle can't two shot me doesn't mean I play alone on live. It isn't a single player game no matter how many times you say it. CAN IT BE? Somewhat, but don't ever raid or pvp or do dungeons. I've never leveled a character alone in any expansion. I made that choice, not the game.

Yes, and this is now going into a more philosophical area. There are lots of other people playing WoW, thats obviously true. But if you aren't in any way encouraged to communicate with a person as a person; it becomes very much a single player game in terms of interaction. People say that bcause there is a human controlling the tank in your group, you are playing a mulitplayer game, and thats fine. But if you don't say a word to that tank in the entire run, and he says nothing back, in what way is that different from a single player experience?

I'm not saying people must see it this way; but it strikes me that as the game becomes more and more single-player focused; it will play much less and less as a multiplayer game. THe most communcation in the game happens in the "lobby" these days : i.e. trade chat.

[Pwellzor]

There was a mod posting baseless information about rumors that have been proven false. Someone in a position of authority making an unsubstantiated post, and claiming it as fact is the epitome of shit posting to me.

Also yeah, I guess all of those people calling people a cancer for liking something they don't, and telling people to kill themselves were pretty chill dudes.

Haha, need I link you the easily 4 times that shit was said to me by your benevolent vanilla worshippers?

Yes, they called themselves benevolent, even fucking ghandi.

[Namalia]

Tbh when it comes to questing I think wrath got it just right. Quests that were easy and a few quests that required a group but even the solo ones punished you a bit for a mistake. It wasn't too easy but it wasn't too hard.

I didn't mind the Wrath model. (I tended to skip group quests in Classic/TBC/Wrath unless I had guild mates or friends nearby anyway.) Questing solo is much more rewarding than questing in a group anyway. Especially with the way that WoW penalizes your XP gain in a group (and has since Classic).

[zorkuus]

telling people to kill themselves were pretty chill dudes.

I'm sorry, that's been from your ilk.

I know it's hard to imagine that there can be dicks on both sides of an argument when you think you're always in the right.

[klob]

The shift this game has made has warranted many to leave Live. Money hungry activision pushing blizzard to keeping sub fee and adding a shitty store to grab more money, promising faster expansion's while all we've gotten is less content, longer waits between expac's, more EXPENSIVE expac's with less content and the content is easier with it being focused on a younger age group. All of you may argue hundreds more page but you're now enjoying a kids game. May want to rethink what you're really supporting, their business ethics now and how the game has changed for the worst.

[Kyanion]

Nah, gonna keep doing my thing. It's funny how rustled your jimmies get by that.

There's just no point in taking it seriously here.

Does not bother me any, I'm not trying to get Vanilla servers. I'm quite happy with WoW and my day won't be ruined if I don't get Vanilla WoW.