Sylvanas, did she at any point actually backstabbed someone?

[Surfd]

Garithos.
So one person

Nah. I honestly dont think he counts either. I mean, while yes, she technically did "betray" their agreement, she also did so knowing full well what kind of person Garithos was. She betrayed him with the full knowledge that if she hadn't, he would have tried to murder her and all of her followers the instant she turned around after their deal was done. The enemy of her enemy was NOT her friend, in this particular instance.

When your options are kill the other guy first, or let him try to kill you first, possibly suffering many unneeded casualties and THEN kill him, any smart commander would go with the first option, and damn the slightly shaky morality it might offer.

[Highdark]

Slyvanas is a monster. We keep looking at her as a person when she is a undead creature. Everything she has done since being brought back is kill the living and raise them as undead. In war crimes this point is accentuated when she wants to kill her sister and her children because them being alive is inconvenient. At least while Arthas was alive she was a tool against him, but now she is the single greatest undead threat facing Azeroth. Voljin in his death state delirium appointed Arthas as warchief because the "spirits" told him too. Why Slyvanas is even allowed to exist mystifies me. She is dead, an abberation, a tormented soul trapped in her own rotting body.

Further the point, the Forsaken commit regular atrocities in the quests that they give. For example, In Western plague lands the player is tasked with going to the recently cleansed felstone field spreading the plague of undeath then slaughtering the farmers(not soldiers) raising them as undead to serve the Dark Lady. In the undead starting area players are lead to believe that they had a choice in serving the forsaken, but in felstone field it is clear that you will serve regardless.

Slyvanas's loyalty is only to herself. She betrayed Arthas, Garithos, Garrosh, her people(blood elves), sisters, the living, and lastly Varian and the alliance. Of course she had reason's but it doesn't make it any less of a betrayal.

Wherever Slyvanas and the forsaken go, the land dies and so do the living. She can be compared to Gul'dan and his fel magic in that sense. She needs to be treated like the monster that she is and have her soul put to rest like the entirety of the Forsaken.

All that being said I like her as a character : ).

[TheRagebear]

No, this is the MMO-Champion forums. Sylvanas is flawless and should be canonized as a saint.

[Dellis0991]

Garithos....

- - - Updated - - -

I miss garrosh, he handled sylvans very well

Just like that lightening bolt handled him.

[Dellis0991]

lightening

kek

Oye thanks for pointing that out to me. Lightning

[Deleted]

Slyvanas is a monster. We keep looking at her as a person when she is a undead creature. Everything she has done since being brought back is kill the living and raise them as undead. In war crimes this point is accentuated when she wants to kill her sister and her children because them being alive is inconvenient. At least while Arthas was alive she was a tool against him, but now she is the single greatest undead threat facing Azeroth. Voljin in his death state delirium appointed Arthas as warchief because the "spirits" told him too. Why Slyvanas is even allowed to exist mystifies me. She is dead, an abberation, a tormented soul trapped in her own rotting body.

Further the point, the Forsaken commit regular atrocities in the quests that they give. For example, In Western plague lands the player is tasked with going to the recently cleansed felstone field spreading the plague of undeath then slaughtering the farmers(not soldiers) raising them as undead to serve the Dark Lady. In the undead starting area players are lead to believe that they had a choice in serving the forsaken, but in felstone field it is clear that you will serve regardless.

Slyvanas's loyalty is only to herself. She betrayed Arthas, Garithos, Garrosh, her people(blood elves), sisters, the living, and lastly Varian and the alliance. Of course she had reason's but it doesn't make it any less of a betrayal.

Wherever Slyvanas and the forsaken go, the land dies and so do the living. She can be compared to Gul'dan and his fel magic in that sense. She needs to be treated like the monster that she is and have her soul put to rest like the entirety of the Forsaken.

All that being said I like her as a character : ).

But she isn't a monster, she has emotions, just because she is a different person or being than when she was alive doesn't make her worse than any other living beings. In war crimes it's a perfect example how she isn't a monster, she just sees things in a different way than others. She wants to be with her sister because she's lonely, the only catch is that unless her sister is forsaken, her sister will just be ripped apart when she comes to the undercity.

And yes, she did raise farmers, farmers that are armed and are in enemy territory. When anyone gets raised they go in a state of bloodlust, after this wears off you get the choice, we never know if they got this choice or if they were still in that state of rage or if they want to serve the forsaken.


She betrayed arthas and garithos.
She threatened, not betrayed, the blood elves for a very good reason, to stop the person responsible for destroying the blood elves their home and lives.
I would more say she wanted to protect her sister by raising her as undead so they can be together, in the only way she knows. You can judge her for that, but her intentions were good.
How do you betray the entirety of the living?
And I'm not even gonna respond to the alliance thing.


In the end everyone is loyal to themselves and to have their genes survive, it's the basics of survival for anyone and anything. We all just use other people that aren't our children or close relatives for our own personal gain, just because we justify it as something else doesn't change that we are all actually selfish. Seeing Sylvanas in a different way because she actually comes out and says it, doesn't make her more or less selfish.


I empathize too much, so that's why i made the thread to get some insight on non-biased thoughts. If you aren't even willing to see it through a characters/persons eyes, you shouldn't judge them. Just my 2cents about real life as well.

[AvCloudy]

And who is Sylvanas - high judge and executor? Yes Garithos was jerk but it doesn't make him being betrayed and killed.

Garithos isn't a jerk. He sent the best and brightest, including the last extant heir, of a shattered nation on suicide missions, and then when they succeeded he ordered them imprisoned. Garithos is a fucking monster, he did his level best to destroy the blood elves for no adequate reason. He should count himself lucky Sylvanas didn't take her time, or force him into undeath.

[steelballfc]

Just like that lightening bolt handled him.

was it a bolt ?
I thought it's a chain of lightening

[Kaleredar]

Well she did invade Gilneas and slaughter thousands of their citizens. Granted she was "ordered" to do that, but any sane person would say "to hell with those orders I am not killing innocents" -- see Uther. Oh and she also murdered Greymane's son in cold blood, quite vindictively at that.

Edit: While that wasn't backstabbing anyone, she did commit genocide against innocent people. That's why it amazes me that people say she is innocent or that she needs a redemption story. How do you redeem yourself when you killed so many with such malice.

Well she got her ass handed to her by a bunch of peasants, so...

[Alanar]

She lulzpwnt Garithos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kR5UBXFHzo

1:11, ''Kill him to''

Hearing Sylvanas old voice makes me cry.. it sounds so much better then wht we have now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmCicezNMQ