I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Propainn]

you can be lazy if you don't go out and find a job, when talking about an hobby like game there is nothing like "being lazy" you use that word just to offend peoples.

This argument has always bugged me. If you build models as a hobby, but put no effort into them, they'll look like garbage. If you're happy with your work at the end of the day, awesome! Good for you man, that's all that matters.

But would you get upset when you see the final product of a fellow hobbyist that actually put real effort into his model (decals, panel lines, sanding, and such)? What does it matter if you have to wait a tier or 2 to steamroll the content? Why do you have to get it early along with those that are actually willing to put in the effort? In this case, laziness is directly related to entitlement, 100%. You'd be hard pressed to find a convincing argument otherwise, as:

-You can wait some time and complete the task with ease. Have patience, and think to yourself: Why do I feel entitled to get this early without actually trying?
-The 'time constraint' argument goes out the window, as organization time is incredibly similar to the average LFR que times (outside of their immediate launch), combined with the fact that unorganized LFR runs generally take longer than organized runs of higher difficulties.

[hyperhyve]

So I get titles, Mythic tier sets, mounts, and ilvl 900 gear from LFR? It's not everything and you know it.
Unleashed Monstrosities is easier than a normal 5 man, yet it awards an Artifact tint. So why couldn't I get the base skin from LFR, and all you elite über raiders can use the 15+ Mythic tint.

No, you're not getting titles, tier sets or mounts and that's good in my opinion. Also artifact tints are something different than skins. I just like to think that its nice for people to be able to show off their skin, if they accomplished something that others didn't. I don't mind if LFR rewarded different colors for skins that are obtainable by non-raiding means.

[Deja Thoris]

I know but the majority of player are because the skin has been paced behind an obstacle they cannot surpass.

Yes, <20% of players usually clear a normal raid.

"cannot"? I disagree. Perhaps they can't the first month or two but with the way gear always scales they'll have enough gear to ignore mechanics soon enough and get their reward.

I don't see the problem with gating a cosmetic reward behind something slightly harder. People can decide if the reward is worth the perceived effort to get it.

[Propainn]

Nice strawman, until this debacle unfolded there had been no indication that the majority of players would be blocked from obtaining any of the artefact skins.

That's not a strawman at all. You claimed that Blizzard 'advertised' it. It's now your job to prove your claim, or we can just disregard it.

You made an assumption, and you were wrong.

[Deleted]

No, you're not getting titles, tier sets or mounts and that's good in my opinion. Also artifact tints are something different than skins. I just like to think that its nice for people to be able to show off their skin, if they accomplished something that others didn't. I don't mind if LFR rewarded different colors for skins that are obtainable by non-raiding means.

So I don't actually get everything from LFR then? All we want to get is a base Artifact appereance. And if you want to pull out your epeen everywhere you can use the mythic 15 or the glory recolor.

[Flurryfang]

So I get titles, Mythic tier sets, mounts, and ilvl 900 gear from LFR? It's not everything and you know it.
Unleashed Monstrosities is easier than a normal 5 man, yet it awards an Artifact tint. So why couldn't I get the base skin from LFR, and all you elite über raiders can use the 15+ Mythic tint.

You are putting LFR up gainst mythic raiding, which is very wrong. We are talking about normal/heroic, which very often does not have titels, mounts and unique gear transmogs. Normal/heroic raiders have very rarely gotten anything other then higher item lvls then from other content, so it is nice that raiding on a normal lvl actually rewards you with something which might brand you as a raider

Also, the jump from LFR to normal is not that insane. If you do LFR without feeling like you are getting carried, then people can easily go into normal aswell. There is nothing elite uber raider in that statement, only reason.

[caervek]

That's not a strawman at all.

Yes it is, instead of attacking my point you attacked a different one instead to give the impression of refuting mine, that's basically textbook straw.

[Goshko]

On one hand - no reason to do LFR ever which is nice. On the other hand - it'll take slightly longer to do Essence of Power which is not so nice. In the end it's just a skin and not one I particularly like so I'm fine with it.

[Propainn]

So I don't actually get everything from LFR then? All we want to get is a base Artifact appereance. And if you want to pull out your epeen everywhere you can use the mythic 15 or the glory recolor.

You get plenty from doing LFR, are you serious? Character progression is available in the form of possible legendary drops, decent chunks of artifact power, full tier gear/trinkets, and the possibility of rolling up to the current ilvl cap at the time...

...you just don't get an extra artifact skin.

Yes it is, instead of attacking my point you attacked a different one instead to give the impression of refuting mine, that's basically textbook straw.

Your point was that Blizzard advertised all artifact appearances would be available to everyone, regardless of difficulty settings.

They didn't. Point refuted. Next.

[Deleted]

So how long does a pug of EN normal mode take?
I got 3 hours a night, 3 nights a week to have some quality Azerothian time.
Will i be able to complete a pug in 3 hours time?

Now if a pug cannot be completed in 3 hours (That includes either setting one up or joining one). I can sure do 1 wing of LFR in those 3 hours.
And for that reason things like this should drop in LFR as well.

[Deleted]

Also, the jump from LFR to normal is not that insane. If you do LFR without feeling like you are getting carried, then people can easily go into normal aswell. There is nothing elite uber raider in that statement, only reason.

As stated many times that is not the issue. I can do normal just fine. What I can't do is sit in front of my computer for hours not doing anthing because pugs are fukin ridiculus.

[caervek]

Your point was that Blizzard advertised all artifact appearances would be available to everyone, regardless of difficulty settings.

No it wasn't, my point was that Blizzard advertised all artefact appearances to everyone with no indication that they were planning on putting in roadblocks to prevent the majority of players from obtaining some of them.

[xtramuscle]

Like the title says,I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

The two quests I am talking about is In Nightmares and Essence of Power. These quests from what I been reading can not be completed in LFR.

I tweeted blizzard to confirm and will post the reply when and if I get it.

If that is the case then that is total bullshit. They are making NM+ raiding a requirement for people to progress there Artifact Quest Chain.

Edit: Also no where does it state on the quests you need to do NM+ to finish them.

It is for a COSMETIC REWARD. It in no way makes you character stronger, if you want to be pretty make a normal group, if you don't care how it looks quit whining.

I personally don't think the best loot should be available on the easiest mode. If you don't like that mentality don't play this genre of game.

[bufferunderrun]

No, you're not getting titles, tier sets or mounts and that's good in my opinion. Also artifact tints are something different than skins. I just like to think that its nice for people to be able to show off their skin, if they accomplished something that others didn't. I don't mind if LFR rewarded different colors for skins that are obtainable by non-raiding means.

so you are greedy asking more and more, gear, mounts, titles, skin until we arrive at thing like karazan who isn't queueable at all basically an entire patch dedicated to non queuable thing.

[Deja Thoris]

Now if a pug cannot be completed in 3 hours (That includes either setting one up or joining one). I can sure do 1 wing of LFR in those 3 hours.
And for that reason things like this should drop in LFR as well.

Sorry to break it to you but they don't base all their design decisions around whats most convenient for you.

[Deleted]

It is for a COSMETIC REWARD. It in no way makes you character stronger, if you want to be pretty make a normal group, if you don't care how it looks quit whining.

I personally don't think the best loot should be available on the easiest mode. If you don't like that mentality don't play this genre of game.

It's not the best loot. You just said so yourself. It's only cosmetic. Why are the "real" raiders so upset that other people can get an artifact apperance?

[lazorexplosion]

Saying 'just do normal' is asinine. The majority of the MMO market doesn't want to do normal raiding. They have never wanted to do normal raiding. They actively dislike normal raiding and prefer to avoid it. People subscribe to an MMORPG to enjoy themselves. When you say 'now you have to go do the thing you actively dislike doing' they go 'fuck that why would I pay to be made to do something I don't even like doing, maybe I'll go play a different game'. And nowadays there is enough competition in the online games market that it's easy to go play a different game. Which is why designing your game to be like that is dumb.

[Propainn]

No it wasn't, my point was that Blizzard advertised all artefact appearances to everyone with no indication that they were planning on putting in roadblocks to prevent the majority of players from obtaining some of them.

For real? How did you expect to get most of the artifact skins/recolors? Complete the nut-craking WQ 10 times and gg? Have you played WoW before?

[Flurryfang]

As stated many times that is not the issue. I can do normal just fine. What I can't do is sit in front of my computer for hours not doing anthing because pugs are fukin ridiculus.

Just because your pugs are bad, does not mean all pugs are bad. I have around a 35% succes rate with pugs, which means that i killed atleast 1 boss with each group. That is also within 1 hour time limit pr boss

If you don't like raiding for hours, then raiding is not for you Raiding is designed to take hours out of your day, which is why some people love it, since they can use their evening after work and dinner to just play

As said before, many groups are asking for players while they are just infront of a boss Join them and you will be on your first attempt in a couple of minutes. While you are waiting to be accepted to come into a pug, you can do other content

[Deleted]

nope

and doing so 7-8 weeks in a row is very hard


^^

It is, and especially a couple of weeks in a row when you start to gear you will be able to do full clears in 2-3 hours

PvP'ers have their artifact skins, PvE'ers has this one
Casuals, stick with what you got or put down time in the game.