1. #36861
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Okay, so now that pandora's box is open and we have this, where is my BC server? Where is the wrath server many people would want? An RP realm? EU? You see how this gets out of hand fast and suddenly this little project starts to sucks resources out current wow.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What is swamped?
    It isn't any pandora box, for me it isnt at least, i thought you were refering to vanilla only, because for me it's a given, looking at the several thousands playin on LK servers for example that if blizzard opens vanilla, they "have" to do it for other expansions where the
    demand also exists.

    swamped is opening up with only 2 servers and having 3k+ queues at times.

  2. #36862
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosoulsu View Post
    So we don't have very long, then? :P
    Perhaps. Legion looks to have been fairly successful so it doesn't seem as if Blizzard is willing to give up on the WoW gravy train just yet.

    Further, while I'm often accused of being an anti-Legacy retail loving Blizzdrone, the truth is that I'm not even actively playing WoW currently. I don't think Legion was a step in the right direction (for the way I want to play the game) but I don't care enough about the old versions of WoW to support them either. I do, however, find irritation in poor argumentation in favor of Legacy so that's part of the reason I've remained active in this thread.

  3. #36863
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Looking at the demand on some pservers i don't think that would be enough. Something along the lines of 2xPVE and 4xPVP to start with and increase on demand. That's my opinion at least.
    exponentially higher. they might need to start also with a clear disclaimer that they WILL merger servers if needed, unlike their policy on retail all these years.

    the only real downside to such a policy is it would decrease xfer revenue - the most likely suggested reason they never merged retail servers.
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  4. #36864
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post


    You don't understand. There's no point in "finding wonder" in something you've "explored" a thousand times over. Nothing can re-capture whatever feelings you felt when you made your first character in WoW and set your first step in Elwynn Forest/Durotar/Dun Morogh/Mulgore or even in Eversong Woods/Azuremyst Isle/Gilneas/Kezan. Re-releasing those places as they were back then won't do it, either. "Exploration" implies uncovering an unfamiliar area, and, honestly, what's "unfamiliar" about any of WoW's zones to the veteran player?


    Reading comprehension: you really lack it. First off: I'm not trying to convince anybody that liking vanilla is wrong. Second: your analogy would make more sense if said someone argues that the reason movies from the 60's are better is because of the "magic" of seeing them for the first time, when he has watched those movies already.


    The "battle system" had no changes at all at 3.0. All Wrath did was add the Death Knights into the mix. New talent trees came with MoP (which was 5.0) and the stat squish came in WoD (which was 6.0)
    1- How do you know that ? Are you in other people's head ? If some people can relive what they felt in wow vanilla when they first played it, I d like to say it is good for them. But it is not for you (or blizzard) to state it is impossible.
    2- The battle system did change in 3.0. It was the beginning of the "bring the player not the class" nonsense, class homogeneization and modification of the system to make the game more AOE reliant (be it in tanking, DPS and healing).

    Now let's pretend those people who don't want to "win an argument" instead want to make the game that the former group is perfectly comfortable playing a miserable, completely conflicted and ultimately fragmented mess of a community, and we'll be close to understanding the full scope of the discussion.
    Sometimes it is very important to know when to stop. Because what you re saying doesn't make any sense at all. Especially when people here advocate for an official wow classic server with a subscription fee.
    Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2016-12-23 at 01:46 PM.

  5. #36865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    1- How do you know that ? Are you in other people's head ? If some people can relive what they felt in wow vanilla when they first played it, I d like to say it is good for them. But it is not for you (or blizzard) to state it is impossible.
    It is impossible, because you already know what's in there. You already know what's coming. You already know what to expect. It is impossible to recreate such a feeling of "first time" unless it is a 'first time' again, so unless those players are somehow either lobotomizing themselves to forget everything they know about WoW, or actually have some mental condition that causes them to forget huge chunks of their lives... that feeling isn't returning. Ever.

    2- The battle system did change in 3.0. It was the beginning of the "bring the player not the class" nonsense, class homogeneization and modification of the system to make the game more AOE reliant (be it in tanking, DPS and healing).
    The changes were minimal. Barely noticeable. Otherwise you can say that the 'battle system' did change with BC already, when paladins were allowed in the Horde and Shamans in the Alliance. That was a much more noticeable change than what Wrath did.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  6. #36866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It is impossible, because you already know what's in there. You already know what's coming. You already know what to expect. It is impossible to recreate such a feeling of "first time" unless it is a 'first time' again, so unless those players are somehow either lobotomizing themselves to forget everything they know about WoW, or actually have some mental condition that causes them to forget huge chunks of their lives... that feeling isn't returning. Ever.


    The changes were minimal. Barely noticeable. Otherwise you can say that the 'battle system' did change with BC already, when paladins were allowed in the Horde and Shamans in the Alliance. That was a much more noticeable change than what Wrath did.
    I can assure you they aren't minimal and every design issue blizzard had since WOTLK comes from the 3.0 change (including the class balance and design issues from legion). WOTLK was the beginning of the mass pull - mass AOE phenomena in dungeons and the loss of the core macro gameplay elements from the other expansions. What you weren't doing without coordination in TBC, vanilla, you were starting to do it very easily from WOTLK. That's also why naxx 25 was such an easy raid (it was designed with the older battle system in mind).

    People often say that wow vanilla and TBC are more 'tank n spanky' than modern wow. But what they are overlooking is that setting up a good tank n spank used to be much more difficult and required more coordination back in the day.

    It is impossible, because you already know what's in there. You already know what's coming. You already know what to expect. It is impossible to recreate such a feeling of "first time" unless it is a 'first time' again, so unless those players are somehow either lobotomizing themselves to forget everything they know about WoW, or actually have some mental condition that causes them to forget huge chunks of their lives... that feeling isn't returning. Ever.
    You think it is impossible, do not try to push your opinion as fact because you have no proofs whatsoever. You re not in other player's mind and if some people have a nostalgia trip playing vanilla, it's their right.

    Also, nostalgia isn't the only factor bringing players to ask for previous expansion of wow. It is a fact that current wow is very different from the older iteration of wow on a core design standpoint.
    Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2016-12-23 at 02:04 PM.

  7. #36867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    That's also why naxx 25 was such an easy raid (it was designed with the older battle system in mind).
    No, you're wrong. Naxxramas in Wrath was specifically designed to be easy for two reasons: one, it was an entry level raid; and two, because so very few people actually got to see it back in the day. As for your claim that it was designed with the older battle system in mind, you're, again, wrong, because several abilities were removed from the bosses and some reworked to be less severe.

    People often say that wow vanilla and TBC are more 'tank n spanky' than modern wow. But what they are overlooking is that setting up a good tank n spank used to be much more difficult and required more coordination back in the day.
    You're confusing mob damage and health to boss mob's abilities. Bosses in vanilla had very few abilities. Close to none when compared to bosses nowadays, which is why people say vanilla bosses were quite tank-n-spank, in comparison.

    You think it is impossible, do not try to push your opinion as fact because you have no proofs whatsoever. You re not in other player's mind and if some people have a nostalgia trip playing vanilla, it's their right.
    One: it is a fact. Why do you think the expression "ruining the surprise" exists? And two: having a 'nostalgia trip' is not the same thing as the "seeing the game for the first time" thing. At best, it's a "poor man's substitute". A very poor man's. Say what you want, but you'll never feel like the time you started the game for the very first time.

    Also, nostalgia isn't the only factor bringing players to ask for previous expansion of wow. It is a fact that current wow is very different from the older iteration of wow on a core design standpoint.
    I don't recall claiming it ever was, so I don't know why did you decide to bring up such a moot point. Then again, reading comprehension isn't your forte, is it?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  8. #36868
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    I can assure you they aren't minimal and every design issue blizzard had since WOTLK comes from the 3.0 change (including the class balance and design issues from legion). WOTLK was the beginning of the mass pull - mass AOE phenomena in dungeons and the loss of the core macro gameplay elements from the other expansions. What you weren't doing without coordination in TBC, vanilla, you were starting to do it very easily from WOTLK
    I would blame this on Heirlooms more than class design.

  9. #36869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    I would blame this on Heirlooms more than class design.
    I m not only talking about leveling content here. Dungeons and raid at 80 were nothing like dungeons and raids before 3.0. I m not saying they are easy but in term of battle flow and what you were actually doing during the encounter or the trashs, it feels like 2 different games.

    You're confusing mob damage and health to boss mob's abilities. Bosses in vanilla had very few abilities. Close to none when compared to bosses nowadays, which is why people say vanilla bosses were quite tank-n-spank, in comparison.
    You don't understand what I m saying, which isn't surprising as, if your armory is correct, you didn't play during TBC and vanilla. What does matter isn't only the boss abilities, but also what the players do and are able to do. Thing is in TBC and vanilla bosses didn't need to have that many abilities to be challenging, because part of the difficulty was also built in the battle system.

    One: it is a fact. Why do you think the expression "ruining the surprise" exists? And two: having a 'nostalgia trip' is not the same thing as the "seeing the game for the first time" thing. At best, it's a "poor man's substitute". A very poor man's. Say what you want, but you'll never feel like the time you started the game for the very first time.
    What are we even talking about here ? By stating that people would feel (or won't) like the time they started the game, you assume player had special feelings when they first played it (eg that players didn't have any objective reasons to like the game). But that's not even especially the case. To be honest I didn't feel anything in particular when I first played wow. On the contrary, they might feel nostalgia by playing the game they used to play a few years ago even though they didn't feel anything in particular when they first played it.

    But that's totally beside the point of the topic and quite irrelevant, as it is something highly subjective.

    No, you're wrong. Naxxramas in Wrath was specifically designed to be easy for two reasons: one, it was an entry level raid; and two, because so very few people actually got to see it back in the day. As for your claim that it was designed with the older battle system in mind, you're, again, wrong, because several abilities were removed from the bosses and some reworked to be less severe.
    You re repeating what blizzard said during the naxx 25 debacle but I find these explanations to be highly unconvincing. You re free to believe whatever you want though.
    Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2016-12-23 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #36870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    You don't understand what I m saying, which isn't surprising as, if tour armory is correct, you didn't play during TBC and vanilla.
    ... Is anyone else surprised that a player character of the Demon Hunter class wasn't around during TBC or Vanilla? No? Thought so.

    Honestly, your entire point against my argument is irrelevant, because even if I wasn't around during vanilla or TBC, you can still check the abilities boss NPCs had, and it's beyond obvious the vast majority of bosses, back then, were way more "tank-n-spank" than today. Let's compare the last boss of an entry raid from vanilla (Ragnaros) to the last boss of an entry-level raid today (Xavius): Ragnaros has a total of six straight-forward abilities, including his add summon ability, whereas Xavius has a total of nine, not counting the abilities of the adds themselves, and the nightmare corruption mechanic you gotta pay attention to. Not to mention that, unlike in Ragnaros, AE damage is much more prevalent in the Xavius' fight than in Ragnaros, so the healers have to focus on everyone, all the time, not just at select times.

    Lastly, do make the courtesy of properly quoting people you respond to? Not only I wouldn't have seen your reply (because you didn't properly quote me), but because you properly quoted @Dergiab, you make it look like you're responding to him, when the argument is mine.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #36871
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    ... Is anyone else surprised that a player character of the Demon Hunter class wasn't around during TBC or Vanilla? No? Thought so.
    You don't have any legacy and feat of strength achievements. Aren't those supposed to be account wide ?

    Honestly, your entire point against my argument is irrelevant, because even if I wasn't around during vanilla or TBC, you can still check the abilities boss NPCs had, and it's beyond obvious the vast majority of bosses, back then, were way more "tank-n-spank" than today. Let's compare the last boss of an entry raid from vanilla (Ragnaros) to the last boss of an entry-level raid today (Xavius): Ragnaros has a total of six straight-forward abilities, including his add summon ability, whereas Xavius has a total of nine, not counting the abilities of the adds themselves, and the nightmare corruption mechanic you gotta pay attention to. Not to mention that, unlike in Ragnaros, AE damage is much more prevalent in the Xavius' fight than in Ragnaros, so the healers have to focus on everyone, all the time, not just at select times.
    You don't understand what I m saying. Back in TBC and vanilla, even if the bosses had less abilities overall, the battle system was balanced so things you take for granted today (such as aggro management or AOE abilities) required coordination on the group scale (hence the large number of utility abilities, which has since then been pruned from the game). Nowadays, the game is mostly a micromanagement game as most of the thing you had to coordinate for are performed automatically.

    Nowadays a tank, tank, a DPS DPS and a healer heal. The only difference between classes being their rotation, details (such as if the spec is bursty or has a steady DPS) and their output. No longer is the game based on an interplay between players and their classes. In the modern game you need the bosses to have a decent number of abilities in order for it to be interesting. However, in vanilla and TBC, that wasn't necessarily the case, as the battle system was partly self sufficient. I won't delve into that debate because that's a whole different topic, but if you only have 3 roles on a macro gameplay standpoint (eg, what these role actually do, be it DPS, healing and tanking), you re going to have a lot of troubles balancing a larger number of specs for each roles (because some are bound to do things better than other in any given role if they aren't the same). By providing utility to the specs and macro gameplay "niches" blizzard managed to alleviate that issue during vanilla and TBC.

    But that 's a very complex matter and you d be able to write books about it. What matter is there is a clear break down between 2 different world of warcraft on the core design of their battle system, and they could have been 2 different games for 2 different public. This statement is supported by the evolution of the trends in the player's interest in WoW and I can guarantee you that if this breakdown didn't occur nobody would be asking for legacy servers.

    Lastly, do make the courtesy of properly quoting people you respond to? Not only I wouldn't have seen your reply (because you didn't properly quote me), but because you properly quoted @Dergiab, you make it look like you're responding to him, when the argument is mine.
    I wouldn't call that an argument because it seems you only read what you want to read.
    Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2016-12-23 at 06:18 PM.

  12. #36872
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    I wouldn't call that an argument because it seems you only read what you want to read.
    The irony...it is killing me.

  13. #36873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    You don't have any legacy and feat of strength achievements. Aren't those supposed to be account wide ?


    You don't understand what I m saying. Back in TBC and vanilla, even if the bosses had less abilities overall, the battle system was balanced so things you take for granted today (such as aggro management or AOE abilities) required coordination on the group scale (hence the large number of utility abilities, which has since then been pruned from the game). Nowadays, the game is mostly a micromanagement game as most of the thing you had to coordinate for are performed automatically.
    Aggro management wasn't a fun mechanic because it forced DPS to throttle their own damage so they wouldn't get ahead of the tank in threat, and the tanks had to focus more on keeping aggro than surviving the boss' attacks. The huge boost to the tanks' aggro generation was so they could focus on what really mattered for a tank: survival, and that DPS could do what they were supposed to do: DPS.

    Nowadays a tank, tank, a DPS DPS and a healer heal.
    Really!? Are you saying that, back in vanilla, a tank dps'ed, a DPS healed and a healer tanked? Or was it that a healer dps'ed, a tank healed and the dps tanked?

    Sarcasm aside, your paragraph amounts to a big whole lot of nothing. The "battle system" wasn't "self-sufficient". It was very crippled, and due to a number of factors, class (im)balance being one of them. A more complex boss' battle script wasn't possible without making the fight nigh-impossible. A vanilla tank would not be able to tank a raid boss today, having to focus on both survival AND threat. Bosses would hit enrage timer easily, today, if the DPS had to hold back their own damage meters.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #36874
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post



    Aggro management wasn't a fun mechanic because it forced DPS to throttle their own damage so they wouldn't get ahead of the tank in threat, and the tanks had to focus more on keeping aggro than surviving the boss' attacks. The huge boost to the tanks' aggro generation was so they could focus on what really mattered for a tank: survival, and that DPS could do what they were supposed to do: DPS.
    Glad to see that you are here to tell us what fun is for everyone.

  15. #36875
    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    I would blame this on Heirlooms more than class design.
    Heirlooms had no place in max level play in Wrath (didn't they cap at 70 originally, but even if they didn't they were as good as barest minimum lvl 80 gear). The mass-pull mass AoE phenomena being talked about started post 4.1, when the accessability to much larger increases in player power from Ulduar-and-beyond gear made every 5 man (even the ones that were released later on) a complete snore fest.

    So not sure how heirloom even factor into that; unless you meant from lvling dungeons; in which case I'd say the "complete re-working and fragmenting of all the old dungeons to make them take less than 10 minutes tops" was a much bigger factor than heirlooms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
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  16. #36876
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Heirlooms had no place in max level play in Wrath (didn't they cap at 70 originally, but even if they didn't they were as good as barest minimum lvl 80 gear). The mass-pull mass AoE phenomena being talked about started post 4.1, when the accessability to much larger increases in player power from Ulduar-and-beyond gear made every 5 man (even the ones that were released later on) a complete snore fest.

    So not sure how heirloom even factor into that; unless you meant from lvling dungeons; in which case I'd say the "complete re-working and fragmenting of all the old dungeons to make them take less than 10 minutes tops" was a much bigger factor than heirlooms.
    Honestly had they continued with dungeons in 4.2 I think Firelands related dungeons would have been amazing. Look at how well received the Zul revamps were.

  17. #36877
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Heirlooms had no place in max level play in Wrath (didn't they cap at 70 originally, but even if they didn't they were as good as barest minimum lvl 80 gear). The mass-pull mass AoE phenomena being talked about started post 4.1, when the accessability to much larger increases in player power from Ulduar-and-beyond gear made every 5 man (even the ones that were released later on) a complete snore fest.

    So not sure how heirloom even factor into that; unless you meant from lvling dungeons; in which case I'd say the "complete re-working and fragmenting of all the old dungeons to make them take less than 10 minutes tops" was a much bigger factor than heirlooms.

    wotlk heroics were aoe zones before 3.1. i even posted a complaint about it. no cc, no pull marking, just pull and hit the biggest numbers you can, every pull. most bosses could be killed without understanding their mechanics (exception - loken).
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  18. #36878
    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    Glad to see that you are here to tell us what fun is for everyone.
    Hey, its a different system; so either you are pro-legacy in which case "it's a different system" or you're anti-legacy which means its an "objectively better" system

    I enjoyed tanking more under the old system if I'm honest; the changes that mostly came in MoP into more proactive tanking were, I'm sure, awesome for the people who wanted that change; but I actually enjoyed aggro management as a tank, as opposed to "taunt management".

    Taunts missing or being resisted was/is kinda aids; sure But it also kinda meant that the action was at least a little more chaotic

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    wotlk heroics were aoe zones before 3.1. i even posted a complaint about it. no cc, no pull marking, just pull and hit the biggest numbers you can, every pull. most bosses could be killed without understanding their mechanics (exception - loken).
    They were not AoE fests from the start*. People would wipe trying to manage the timed event in CoT-Stratholme. Sure this period of the expansion was only the first, what, 10-15% of it so the majority of memories would be the snoozefest. And sure raiders would be AoE-festing them basically from when they got raid geared onwards. But they weren't the majority at the start. By Call of the Crusade everyone and their auntie had good enough gear to smash them to pieces. Or more accurately the chances of enough of your group having the gear to utterly smash it was a lot lot higher.

    *although fair cop on the 4.1/3.1 thing :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Honestly had they continued with dungeons in 4.2 I think Firelands related dungeons would have been amazing. Look at how well received the Zul revamps were.
    Yes. I'd still argue that ABYSSAL FUCKING MAW would have been a nicer addition

    But hey lets go to Argus, because everyone was asking to do that ^_^

    Also genuinely can't tell if you're being sarcastic, my understanding at the time was that the ZG/ZA remakes were very POORLY received...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Honestly, your entire point against my argument is irrelevant, because even if I wasn't around during vanilla or TBC, you can still check the abilities boss NPCs had, and it's beyond obvious the vast majority of bosses, back then, were way more "tank-n-spank" than today. Let's compare the last boss of an entry raid from vanilla (Ragnaros) to the last boss of an entry-level raid today (Xavius): Ragnaros has a total of six straight-forward abilities, including his add summon ability, whereas Xavius has a total of nine, not counting the abilities of the adds themselves, and the nightmare corruption mechanic you gotta pay attention to. Not to mention that, unlike in Ragnaros, AE damage is much more prevalent in the Xavius' fight than in Ragnaros, so the healers have to focus on everyone, all the time, not just at select times.
    Gonna go out on a limb here and say the "Entry" level Xavius has 0 abilities you have to pay attention to, and you still pick up your loot :P
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  19. #36879
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    They were not AoE fests from the start*. People would wipe trying to manage the timed event in CoT-Stratholme. Sure this period of the expansion was only the first, what, 10-15% of it so the majority of memories would be the snoozefest. And sure raiders would be AoE-festing them basically from when they got raid geared onwards. But they weren't the majority at the start. By Call of the Crusade everyone and their auntie had good enough gear to smash them to pieces. Or more accurately the chances of enough of your group having the gear to utterly smash it was a lot lot higher.

    *although fair cop on the 4.1/3.1 thing :P
    I disagree, they were and I said so here. I never raided in wotlk, never had a single item over ilvl 200, and typically topped meters, and only learned a few boss fights well (loken particularly). I pugged most of them. The only class to consistently out-dps me was dw-titangrip warriors (the one where they wielded 2 2h weapons or wahtever it was). I think I posted that thread in 3.0.8.

    health pools at that point in wotlk were nearly triple tbc iirc, yet heroic 80 instances' trash damage was only marginally higher than bc heroic trash damage. You could pull aggro and take a few whacks and be fine.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  20. #36880
    Any new news yet? Saw nost relaunched something since Blizzard has had a lack of communication. Sadly IDC to play on a private server and haven't been keeping up much since we were basically told to wait for a Blizzard announcement.

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