Francis Fukuyama: the Left abandoned its economic agenda in favor of identity poltics

[Wells]

They didn't want him? There is no turning around and suddenly proclaiming "Oh really they all wanted him."

What we have now is a media that cannot command the narrative, and at least one cadre of elites that believed now was their time, being informed it wasn't actually their time.

The man lives in a literal golden tower on 5th Avenue, is staffing his administration with plutocrats, is promising massive deregulation and tax cuts, and the finance industry's stock is soaring.

Oh yeah, big loss for "elites".

[Strangebrew]

Anyone who thinks the Right doesn't play identity politics just has much (if not more so) than the Left is kidding themselves. The Right just has a better way of disguising it, such as Religious Freedom.

It's not like we've had a year of the left having complete outrage at things christianity have done while completely excusing the shit islam have brought because of religious freedom or anything, yep nope, not at all.

[PC2]

He specifically may steer clear of that, but you'd have to admit the Republicans as a whole are just as guilty as the Democrats.

Identity politics exists on both sides but that's not an excuse to allow arguments based on demographics. If an idea is good it will be universal, there is no reason why either side should put any value on minorities, majority, whites, blacks, women, etc. None of those categories bring any value to politics.

[Wells]

Identity politics exists on both sides but that's not an excuse to allow arguments based on demographics. If an idea is good it will be universal, there is no reason why either side should put any value on minorities, majority, whites, blacks, women, etc. None of those categories bring any value to politics.

How is this different than saying "ignore problems and they'll go away"?

[PC2]

How is this different than saying "ignore problems and they'll go away"?

Ignoring things that don't matter frees us up so we can focus on universal ideas such as the individual, liberty, the economy. Identity is just a way for people to try to feel special without regard for their own merit.

[Wells]

Ignoring things that don't matter frees us up so we can focus on universal ideas such as the individual, liberty, the economy. Identity is just a way for people to try to feel special without regard for their own merit.

"Things that matter" isn't up to you to solely decide. This amounts to little more than "the things I care about are the real issues".

[PC2]

"Things that matter" isn't up to you to solely decide. This amounts to little more than "the things I care about are the real issues".

Identity doesn't matter.

You disagree with that?

[nextormento]

Identity politics exists on both sides but that's not an excuse to allow arguments based on demographics. If an idea is good it will be universal, there is no reason why either side should put any value on minorities, majority, whites, blacks, women, etc. None of those categories bring any value to politics.

What some calls a minority, some other calls a special interest group.
What is to you the point of governance if not a way to protect unpopular people, or ideas, from the mob rule?. How do you prevent politics from using market tools like segmentation?.

[Wells]

Identity doesn't matter.

You disagree with that?

Its a factually incorrect statement.

[PC2]

Its a factually incorrect statement.

Wells your identity doesn't matter. What matters is your quantitative output. What do you offer to civilization? No serious person cares about your ethnicity, genitals, or other identity issues.

[Wells]

Wells your identity doesn't matter. What matters is your quantitative output. What do you offer to civilization? No serious person cares about your ethnicity, genitals, or other identity issues.

Claiming identity doesn't matter requires, for a start, claiming that no one is treated differently based on their identity. Its a ludicrous proposition.

[Cybran]

Claiming identity doesn't matter requires, for a start, claiming that no one is treated differently based on their identity. Its a ludicrous proposition.

Yes. Affirmative action sucks, especially for Asians. The world isn't fair.

[Deleted]

The left is a giant contradiction because of its very nature and should just go away or cease to be. Either youre for freedom, self determination and all the good things or youre a fascist authoritarian. Lefties are just hypocrites who pretend to support equality and freedom but only as long as it goes with their own agenda or suits their needs. Even if you happen to be part of those "protected special minorities" and have a different opinion, they still go after you or attack you.

[Wells]

Either youre for freedom, self determination and all the good things or youre a fascist authoritarian.

The bought of seriousness this thread needed.

[Strangebrew]

Lefties are just hypocrites who pretend to support equality and freedom but only as long as it goes with their own agenda or suits their needs. Even if you happen to be part of those "protected special minorities" and have a different opinion, they still go after you or attack you.

Uncle Tom's is what we call black people who refuse to buy into the bullshit and outrage by white middle-class millennials.

[xChurch]

Identity politics exists on both sides but that's not an excuse to allow arguments based on demographics. If an idea is good it will be universal, there is no reason why either side should put any value on minorities, majority, whites, blacks, women, etc. None of those categories bring any value to politics.

I agree with you, which is why both sides should feel the pain for this. If it ideas are really going to be able to be judged purely on merit then neither side can be allowed to engage in identity politics or it will never stop since if one side does, the other side has to.

[Kokolums]

There is no "the Left". Even in the US alone, that label covers a huge range of independent groups, whose ideological views are pretty wildly different on most topics, with only some very vague shared principles. The idea that "the Left" is some homogenous hive mind is ridiculous as hell.

Of course there is a left and a right. There are two VERY different and VERY incompatible methods of dealing with some issues that simply cannot be integrated permanently. For example, education. Should a private entity be in charge of education? Or should government do this? It is a VERY clear choice and you cannot permanently mix them. If you try to mix them, over time the government will take over all aspects of education because the government has infinite resources, will spend lots of money on it, which causes inflation in the industry, and will eventually make it financially impossible for a private entity to do it. So you don't have a mix, you actually have a transition to total government control that takes decades.

The left very clearly believes in public education. The right believes in private education. And you cannot mix them. They are incompatible.

- - - Updated - - -

If an idea is good it will be universal.

There are plenty of good ideas. Great ideas even. We don't need to invent new ones. We can solve most of our problems now with the slate of ideas we have. The reason they keep failing is because of corruption. When it comes time to apply those ideas, corrupt people take advantage of the system to get ahead. Corrupt politicians corrupt the system to benefit themselves. Citizens bend the rules to benefit themselves.

That's what keeps leading humans back to a strong moral code. Some people say "Well a strong moral code is a bad thing because people should be allowed to do whatever they want it doesn't hurt anyone." But that attitude DOES hurt everyone. People are jerks and without a strong moral code they are even bigger jerks and eventually it breaks down the system.

[Torto]

The progressive left have become what they most despise, and it has been fascinating to watch them grapple with their contradictions and hypocrisies.

Most if not all the moral progressives view themselves as societies elite. They sermon about societies ills that only they can judge. You will find them dominating the media and universities. They hold deep contempt for anyone not agreeing with their ideals. They label them with 'isms' or 'ists' to shame and silence. "racist", "climate denialist", "sexist".

A few centuries ago you needed to be wealthy or royalty to be considered upper class. Now you just need to be a progressive leftie.

[THE Bigzoman]

The other thing along these lines that I saw much hand-wringing and anger about was the reality that Trump won white women by 10 points. This margin was even larger among married white women. It turns out that white women don't tend to lump themselves into the category of oppressed people and aren't generally all that impressed with the message that not voting for Clinton made them gender traitors.

Married women have higher incomes, so they're probably disinterested in a lot of the pro woman policies coming from democrats.

[PosPosPos]

There was a pre election Twitter beak down and statistics. Hillary overwhelmingly focuses on race while trump barely mentioned it.

But you should keep doing what you are doing. I will enjoy watching the democrats fragment and become as irrelevant as the green party.

Yeah right, see his twitter and every time he appeared on fox news.

This is why the alt right is known for completely ignoring swathes of evidence if it means they can maintain party loyalty.