Thinking to main survival....

[willtron]

Never played it, never will.

Your loss. It's super fun and engaging.

[Ilir]

lol @FpicEail

Why is survival not played as much ? because like I said, the majority of people that played survival and hunters were those that can't process a somewhat complicated rotation. + the stigma of being melee + people like you being like "survival sucks it does less damage than a healer"

You can still play ranged with beast mastery and marksmanship.

also it makes sense because it fits the class and its lore/fantasy. I dunno why you're trying to bring real world logic into this

[DeicideUH]

also it makes sense because it fits the class and its lore/fantasy. I dunno why you're trying to bring real world logic into this

He's just butthurt that he lost his favorite spec.

I lost my favorite spec as well. I used to play MM.

The current MM is nothing like the one I used to like. So I moved to Survival and I'm having fun with it.

[Trapstarz]

I'm sorry but I couldn't take anymore of this guy.



Every Survival thread is just FpicEail against the world. The popularity of the spec is rising, its fun as hell to play and its here to stay. Already prepping for 7.2 Survival now that I'm capped out for BM on traits/leggos.

Yeah I muted him since 2 months already and it's a blast not having to read him anymore

[InfernalDark]

I'm sorry but I couldn't take anymore of this guy.

Kids gotta cry somewhere

[Bepples]

people like you being like "survival sucks it does less damage than a healer"

I literally never said anything like this. Try harder.

also it makes sense because it fits the class and its lore/fantasy

Nice class fantasy meme.

[Yhcti]

I do miss spamming explosive shots and aoeing serpent stings from multishot however I find the current Survival such a breeze to play... For general PvE I'm never short of buttons and Flanking Strike crits tend to "almost" kill mobs, AoEing tons of adds is a breeze with Butchery etc... DPS wise I feel fine, ST is great, AoE is great (ok it's not top tier, but it's capable of #1 in your group) I consistently top meters in my guilds raids on multiple fights.... Only place I guess I struggle is boss DPS in M+

[DeicideUH]

I do miss spamming explosive shots and aoeing serpent stings from multishot

I think Blizzard failed way more by not moving Survival's toolkit to MM than remaking Survival.

Past MM/Survival shared 100% of their talents. Blizzard just needed to move talents baseline, then allow MM to talent past Survival/MM toolkits. Like, you choose between Aimed Shot or Explosive Shot, a talent adds Serpent Sting to Arcane Shot/Multishot and so on.

however I find the current Survival such a breeze to play... For general PvE I'm never short of buttons and Flanking Strike crits tend to "almost" kill mobs, AoEing tons of adds is a breeze with Butchery etc... DPS wise I feel fine, ST is great, AoE is great (ok it's not top tier, but it's capable of #1 in your group) I consistently top meters in my guilds raids on multiple fights.... Only place I guess I struggle is boss DPS in M+

Weird, I feel no trouble in boss DPS in M+.

[Yhcti]

I think Blizzard failed way more by not moving Survival's toolkit to MM than remaking Survival.

Past MM/Survival shared 100% of their talents. Blizzard just needed to move talents baseline, then allow MM to talent past Survival/MM toolkits. Like, you choose between Aimed Shot or Explosive Shot, a talent adds Serpent Sting to Arcane Shot/Multishot and so on.



Weird, I feel no trouble in boss DPS in M+.

To be honest I'm probably not doing it right. I find myself just playing what I enjoy at the moment so I've taken snake hunter to get those guaranteed openers. I find I'm not consistently getting 6 mongoose stacks on the opener so I delay Fote for so long before I use it. I struggle a little with the fote aspect of it but the rest I've got nailed. Do we still only pop aote when we get to 6 stacks/right before mongoose ends?

[DeicideUH]

To be honest I'm probably not doing it right. I find myself just playing what I enjoy at the moment so I've taken snake hunter to get those guaranteed openers. I find I'm not consistently getting 6 mongoose stacks on the opener so I delay Fote for so long before I use it. I struggle a little with the fote aspect of it but the rest I've got nailed. Do we still only pop aote when we get to 6 stacks/right before mongoose ends?

Without Snake Hunter, you pop AotE after spending all stacks of MB available (usually 3, but more if lucky), then use Flanking Strike to try to speed up MB recharge. AotE increases chance of getting MB charges by 25%, and usually I get enough charges to reach 6 stacks and use FotE before AotE ends.

[Khrux]

I use snake hunter also, I like the on demand charges especially with the 4pc tier and it allows you to burst harder for openers or setup easier for specific add phases.

I typically open with;

-> Pre-pull two traps (explosive + caltrops/steel)
-> Harpoon into Lacerate + raptor(serpents sting)
-> Dump 3 mongos
-> Snake hunter
-> Dump 2 mongos
-> AotE
-> Mongo as much as I can, weaving flanking strike whenever I can't mongo
-> Clip FotE into the last 4 secs of AotE + 4pc buff

With this setup you get both the 4pc bonus and AotE running @ 6 stacks of mongoose fury and through the entire FotE cast. Once FotE ends I reapply any dots/traps I need to and prep for the next 6 stack mongoose fury.

You basically delete bosses on lower mythic keys on the first FotE so you don't even need to reapply any dots, in heroic dungeons you can abandon the dots and just setup your mongos and FotE immediately @6.
For raids/high keys, after the opener you just prioritise reaching 6 stacks as often as possible for the 4pc bonus and use downtimes to reapply/upkeep dots. Line up AotE with FotE and 4pc bonus as often as you can without delaying anything too long.

[Geran]

I don't like FpicEail (his opinion), but hell if i dont agree in this matter.

[Yhcti]

nice ^ thanks for the input both above, i'll practise this.

So for general situations, I Mongoose if there is ATLEAST 2 stacks, If there's only 1 I save it and do other things. is flanking strike still a higher priority than raptor strike? ive noticed raptor hits reaaaally hard now. is raptor only > flanking if you take way of the mo? just trying to get my head around this

at the moment if I only have 0 or 1 MB then ill flanking, lacerate, explosive, caltrops, then raptor spam, but obviously by then I get MB back.

if Butchery is it Flanking > Raptor
if Serpent Sting I guess it's Raptor > Flanking

no idea. LOL.

[DeicideUH]

nice ^ thanks for the input both above, i'll practise this.

So for general situations, I Mongoose if there is ATLEAST 2 stacks, If there's only 1 I save it and do other things. is flanking strike still a higher priority than raptor strike? ive noticed raptor hits reaaaally hard now. is raptor only > flanking if you take way of the mo? just trying to get my head around this

at the moment if I only have 0 or 1 MB then ill flanking, lacerate, explosive, caltrops, then raptor spam, but obviously by then I get MB back.

if Butchery is it Flanking > Raptor
if Serpent Sting I guess it's Raptor > Flanking

no idea. LOL.

AFAIK, Flanking > Raptor unless you are refreshing Serpent Sting DoT.

Notice that refreshing SS early is a DPS loss, since the DoT damage does not stack. So, you'll be using Raptor Strike once every 15 seconds (or every 10 seconds, if spec'ed WotMN)

[Deleted]

@FpicEail which logs settings did you use? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/ tell me that SV is currently the second best DPS spec for nighthold

[Bepples]

@FpicEail which logs settings did you use? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/ tell me that SV is currently the second best DPS spec for nighthold

Performance is not the issue. Contrary to desperate SV hunter belief, bad performance is easily fixed so the success and failure of a spec can't be judged by how well it performs (e.g. can Blizzard just blanket buff a spec by 30-50% on all abilities then call it "successful"?).

Parse count is the issue. That indicates how many people are playing the spec. Survival is making other unpopular specs (e.g. Subtlety Rogue, Feral Druid) look positively thriving. The picture I posted was the default from the page you posted, just sorted by parse count.

Now, some SV hunters love playing a niche, "not-for-everyone" spec and I've seen the whole "there's nothing wrong with a spec being unpopular" angle. That may be true. However when you are talking about a spec that was once upon a time extremely popular (routinely one of the most popular DPS specs in the game, in fact) that now is stuck in a position of massive unpopularity (SV has been fluctuating between 20-30% of the parse count of the 2nd-least-played spec for the whole expansion despite numerous buffs), it's hard to look at that and not conclude that something went terribly, terribly wrong.

[Eapoe]

Performance is not the issue. Contrary to desperate SV hunter belief, bad performance is easily fixed so the success and failure of a spec can't be judged by how well it performs (e.g. can Blizzard just blanket buff a spec by 30-50% on all abilities then call it "successful"?).

Parse count is the issue. That indicates how many people are playing the spec. Survival is making other unpopular specs (e.g. Subtlety Rogue, Feral Druid) look positively thriving. The picture I posted was the default from the page you posted, just sorted by parse count.

Now, some SV hunters love playing a niche, "not-for-everyone" spec and I've seen the whole "there's nothing wrong with a spec being unpopular" angle. That may be true. However when you are talking about a spec that was once upon a time extremely popular (routinely one of the most popular DPS specs in the game, in fact) that now is stuck in a position of massive unpopularity (SV has been fluctuating between 20-30% of the parse count of the 2nd-least-played spec for the whole expansion despite numerous buffs), it's hard to look at that and not conclude that something went terribly, terribly wrong.

But it's performance is the issue. The thread is a person asking about maining SV, and you're talking about popularity. You also showed Mythic only, where heroic and normal have many more people playing it. Granted, the numbers are low, but it's been discussed to death why this is, and the spec being good or bad as damage numbers and playstyle have never been mentioned. Not once. You haven't been able to retort that they do good damage and are viable and are focusing on popularity.
Now granted, I know that some of your replies are to people discussing popularity, but again, it's not what this thread is about. Much like the other thread talking about success and failure.

[Deleted]

Looking at all the posts since mine, I'd like to add one thing: I do believe SV is currently a 'proto' spec as some have remarked, next expac or whatnot it'll be tweaked to the point of being possibly good to play for the majority, as it stands I do still like playing it, but it could use some more synergy between some of its abilities. That said, I kinda enjoy it, & my numbers are solid.