[PROT] Fix my Tanking!

[tiptopmemer]

She dies quite often and it doesn't seem to be from messing up mechanics.
when I die, I can pinpoint what went wrong most of the time (missing a mechanic, underestimating a big hit etc...).
but she seems to be on low health more often than me.
dps is also low, but we want to focus on survivability first.

Every spell prot paladins cast either directly or indirectly contributes towards mitigation.
If their DPS is low, their mitigation is low.

Get them to drop the Royal Hilt trinket, wasting half a trinket that banks on you receiving a fatal hit is madness.

Trinkets for paladins should help smooth over damage during sotr downtime/recuperation.

Stamina trinkets with on use mitigation are ideal, a Paladin with a lot of health is near immortal.

[Akiresu]

Every spell prot paladins cast either directly or indirectly contributes towards mitigation.
If their DPS is low, their mitigation is low.

Get them to drop the Royal Hilt trinket, wasting half a trinket that banks on you receiving a fatal hit is madness.

Trinkets for paladins should help smooth over damage during sotr downtime/recuperation.

Stamina trinkets with on use mitigation are ideal, a Paladin with a lot of health is near immortal.

thx for the advice!

[Deleted]

Armory Link: Sunsset | Twisting Nether EU (can't post links)
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: 21331131 (FA/BoL, HoP, JoL, RP)
Worldoflogs Link: don't have them
Questions, concerns, expectations:
1) Have 4 legendaries: Prydaz, Sephuz, Uther's Guard, Chain of Trayn. Which ones should I use for progression raids? IMO: Prydaz & Chain of Trayn. Can someone explain me how to make better use of Chain of Trayn? Why is it ranked as a top legendaries for prot paladins? Just got it, hoped for helm / ring and got this instead...

2) Also, trinket wise: Have 875 chrono shard with socket, 885 royal dagger from Chronomatic Anomaly, Fang of Tichondrius 915 & Raven Eidolon 880 with socket. On progression I use Chrono Shard & Royal Dagger. Should I switch them? What trinkets do you guys recommend for prot?

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Is prot pala best tank in Legion?

[Ergar]

Is prot pala best tank in Legion?

No, druids are.

[Hamacus]

I am a healer and noticed that our Prot Pally seems to take a ton of spiky damage on most fights in heroic Nighthold. I end up spamming heals / cd's primarily to him and was wondering is this normal for Pally tanks. Our other uber Druid healer noticed the same when healing him in M+ content. On a side note when we have to use a backup BM tank damage / healing is much more manageable.

Are there specific talents / stats I should be looking for our tank to have / take that might improve his survivability?

[Drevic]

I am a healer and noticed that our Prot Pally seems to take a ton of spiky damage on most fights in heroic Nighthold. I end up spamming heals / cd's primarily to him and was wondering is this normal for Pally tanks. Our other uber Druid healer noticed the same when healing him in M+ content. On a side note when we have to use a backup BM tank damage / healing is much more manageable.

Are there specific talents / stats I should be looking for our tank to have / take that might improve his survivability?

Yes paladins can be very spiky if not played correctly, but played right they are one of the sturdiest tanks in the game. Here are the basics.

1- Gear for Haste, a good prot paladin has at least 30% (more mitigation uptime) And if death is a problem make sure he isn't using dps trinkets, DMC: Immortality, Grotesque Statue, Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor, or for pure survival a good stam trinket is decent for prot paladins, they have a low health pool for tanks, and that's because of their high mitigation, a large health pool makes them near immortal.

2- Talents. The two big ones in terms of survivabilty are tier 30, and tier 100. On tier 30 make sure he isn't using first avenger, either of the other two will do. Tier 100 in a raid setting should be righteous protector, he shouldn't be using seraphim if hes getting crushed. A lot of paladins get caught up in the "look how much dmg i can do" game play and forget that their first role is to tank. (1. Hold Threat - 2. Don't die - 3. DPS, in that order, if you cant cover the first two don't move on to the third.)

3- Aim for 100% uptime on shield of the righteous while he is ACTIVELY tanking. When he has the boss keep shield of the righteous up as long as he can, when he runs out of charges use eye of tyr and ardent defender to fill in the gap while waiting for SoTR to recharge. And when he's not tanking he should be letting the ability recharge, only using it when the charges cap at 3. Paladins have a lot of mitigation abilities, so use 1 at a time, and try not to overlap them unless its necessary. The only cd to really hold on to is Guardian of Ancient Kings, save that for the "oh shit" moment.

Hope this helps. Good luck to him.

[Evilmoo]

I am a healer and noticed that our Prot Pally seems to take a ton of spiky damage on most fights in heroic Nighthold. I end up spamming heals / cd's primarily to him and was wondering is this normal for Pally tanks. Our other uber Druid healer noticed the same when healing him in M+ content. On a side note when we have to use a backup BM tank damage / healing is much more manageable.

Are there specific talents / stats I should be looking for our tank to have / take that might improve his survivability?

He probably fails to manage SoTR uptime correctly, i've seen many prots using it as a dps tool (3 quick hits in succession) and ignoring obvious that after those 12 secs are off, you are on the mercy of healers, your grand cursader procs or CDs. Unless there is a guaranteed 12 sec damage (mini-enrage) or something similar, he should never spend more then one SotR, but expand them evenly during the fight.
Other then that, make him remove first avenger or seraphim and stack haste.

[palypowa]

haste caps for this patch where?

[Deleted]

100% (or where you are comfortable, for me i'd wager around the ~35-40% mark is a very comfortable level, and you will benefit more defensively from other stats) as you have abilities which are longer than the GCD in terms of CD.



Spellwarding does not drop your threat (unlike blessing of protection, and divine shield) and just prevents further applications of any magical debuff (as you are immune to it - e.g. Necrotic on M+) - Note: You can use Divine Shield and then taunt and retain threat on a single mob.

Not aware of any stack drops on Augur but personally I haven't tried if i'm being honest, but for negligible magic effects Divine Shield usually works to remove them with a /cancelaura thrown in the macro so you just press it twice, and same for Blessing of Protection for Physical effects that are negligible.

Tichondrius, personally i'd stick without Spellwarding here as the bloods fixate on you and if you are immune to their (physical) dmg you can keep them on the boss as they wont heal (increasing raid dps). So you can Divine Shield/BoP/Guardian+Active Mit to keep them on the boss for more DPS.

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1) Prydaz + Chain for raiding. Chain is up there as your self heal's become Lay on Hands during this time, and it's got alright stats on it too (and doesn't conflict with tier) and you get the added bonus of more DPS (which should line up with Seraphim/Potion etc).

2)Raven + Chrono if those are your only options ("DPS" trinkets are usually better this tier than "Tanking" ones, and also a solid stat stick would be better than your alternative options here). The Dagger is pretty shit (and from my experience, has very questionable internal calculations on if it will save you or not) as it's got a 6min CD and a questionable stat on it.

Raven is the best of a bad bunch that you have there tbh.

Thanks a lot! Could you suggest me some trinkets specially for progress raiding then?

[Hamacus]

TYVM! Makes perfect sense as I look at build /logs. He was a little less squishy today. Noticed his haste is up to 24% which is an improvement. Will find a way to politely suggest he try righteous protector as he is indeed using seraphim. As far as trinkets go he has a strength/haste one which I assume is ok. The other is Alchemist Stone. Not sure if that is good for tanks.

[Drevic]

TYVM! Makes perfect sense as I look at build /logs. He was a little less squishy today. Noticed his haste is up to 24% which is an improvement. Will find a way to politely suggest he try righteous protector as he is indeed using seraphim. As far as trinkets go he has a strength/haste one which I assume is ok. The other is Alchemist Stone. Not sure if that is good for tanks.

Stat sticks are fine, but yeah ditch the alchemist stone. A few of the easier ones to get - DMC: Immortality, Chrono Shard, Nightmare Eggshell, or simply another stat stick.
The issue with seraphim is that its an indirect hit to your mitigation, casting it vastly increases your burst dmg but at the cost of 2 SoTR charges, which are much too valuable to give up in a situation where dying is a possiblity.

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To answer my own questions:
While DS and BoSp does not remove gravitational pull, it will fully immune the damage from comet impact and prevent the absolute zero debuff from being applied. This makes healing the phase much easier.
DS removes void burst stacks. BoSp does not; when the tank who is holding aggro has BoSp on them, Etraeus will target people in the raid for voidburst. We found that in practice he alternates his cast among multiple people for those 10 seconds who only get a single stack. BoSp fully prevents the tank from getting stacks from the voidlings' melee so if the tank keeps aggro they are nullified as a mechanic for those 10 seconds.

Noticed this tonight as well, kinda crap that they give a very powerful cd to us specifically for situations like that, then make it unusable, at least while tanking. I ended up using it during the p2 comets, they hit pretty hard.

[Drevic]

Why do you say they "make it unusable"? It was eminently useful. And it's not just that it removes the comet damage (which is great since you can use it on the second comet, pool Shield charges for the third comet and have both charges and a CD up) but it also removes one absolute zero from the fight which should be very nice for smaller groups.
As for void phase, BoSp significantly reduces the damage by reducing overall voidburst stacks; him throwing random single stacks around the raid is beneficial because single stacks don't hurt at all; it allows you to keep stacks very low while one tank is on the add by resetting the other tank's stacks at a low count without a tank swap and removes a lot of stacks from the game since the voidlings would always get a few hits out anyway.

Maybe unusable was the wrong choice of words, yes its useful, like i said i used it during the comets. What i should've said is that its strange that they give us a talent that, when used doesn't cause us to drop threat, except when it does.

[Fitch42]

So my general understanding/focus of stat priority is Haste >Mastery> versatility > leech = Crit strike > Stam. for Protadins. Currently I am running at 32% > 32% > 7% > 13% = 5% > 65521 respectively. I gem/food buff for haste and enchant for versatility.

I have been unable to find a "soft cap" for any Protadins stats and was curious what mix everyone else runs at. I find that my initial burst always pulls aggro off any other tank I am running and then forced to take a step back or else I pull back (mastery a little high maybe? SOTR hits hard). I am happy with my survivability and can normally withstand anything thrown my way (-necrotic RIP). I do not run Seraphim as I tend to "off heal" and prefer the 3 sec up time on HOTP. Currently run about a M13/M14 per week plus H/N raids.

Quick recap, not too interested in any rotation/talent optimization just curious to know if anyone runs a similar build as I or if anyone has found a better stat mix.

Heathcliff's Immortality, Aggramar's StrideAggramar <- currently wearing
Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus <- sitting in the bank waiting for a set of boots to drop.

[Fitch42]

Not sure what you're actually asking for so i'll give it a go?

Stat priority: Haste > Vers=Crit (depending on defensive or offensive) > Mastery

Just looking to see if there is any rule of thumb other protadins use when min maxing their stats.

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Can't you just buy 865 haste/versatility crafted boots instead of waiting? The neck is amazing.

Not a fan of buying/crafting gear. If you ask me it ruins the whole point of doing raids/progressing.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Just looking to see if there is any rule of thumb other protadins use when min maxing their stats.

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Not a fan of buying/crafting gear. If you ask me it ruins the whole point of doing raids/progressing.

Starting with the best crafted you can get helps you down more bosses sooner which gets you more gear, etc.
It really comes down to how fast you wanna get the party started.

[Chaoslock]

Hey guys,

Ive noticed that my raids prot pally takes a crap ton of damage vs our druid which i can understand a little bit but it seems like a significant amount of damage taken when he doesnt have a CD up. I'll post the logs and it would be helpful if anyone can tell me if this is normal or if there's something he could be doing a little better to negate some of the damage he's taking. Thanks

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ymaster/simple

Log: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e=damage-taken

[Holovik]

Only three uses of Eye of Tyr in a 12 minute fight (1m CD on it). Only two uses of Ardent Defender (60-90 second CD depending on relics). Only 1 use of Guardian (5m CD, would expect at least two simply to help against empowered bonds).

Eye of Tyr and Ardent Defender are on relatively short CD. Eye of Tyr should be used on CD (and use that time to regen charges or even use it with ShotR if it is needed). AD can also be used rotationally (though you can also use it as a big defensive cooldown immediately following it with selfheal.

And consecration uptime is quite low for a fight that doesn't have THAT much tank movement outside phase 1.

The lack of Eye of Tyr and AD are the more glaring issues here. Get your 16 full seconds of SOTR mitigation. Once you are regening these charges you can use Eye of Tyr followed by AD to keep your mitigation going and by that time you should have full SOTR charges again. Or you can thread your CDs in between these charges, just make sure you don't cap. In periods of high dmg (think Tyrannical Hyrja in higher mythic +s or a Mythic Krosus smash) you can stack these CDs for tons of mitigation. SOTR, AD, and Eye of Tyr is something like 90% dmg reduction. If you can't stack all these, doing what Nymrohd said and using LOTP immediately following big dmg acts very similarly to mitigation.

Tanking in general, but more specifically paladin tanking relies heavily on using (and stacking) your mitigation where it really matters and using periods of lesser dmg to regen your charges/cds.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

I'm a filthy casual, currently 9/10 Normal NH. Will probably be 10/10 after next raid night as we got him to 30% last night and only had 3-4 pulls.

This is my first expansion raid tanking and I want to improve as much as possible in prep for heroic and 7.2

I run with another prot pally as the MT and generally find he puts out more dps, has better survivability and is generally a better tank than me, and I want to improve.

Any general tips would be appreciated.

Logs (i'm Stoane) - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CVnaA8HbWLq1Fk7z/

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Hi!

Thanks so much for your feedback. A couple of things:

Level 30 Row:

No idea why you've picked Bastion of Light, arguably the worst talent in the row now.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.al6smb6aelte

This guide, and Icy Veins, both suggest BoL is better for survivability, can I ask why you disagree?
Although, saying that, I don't find myself using it that much, so I'll check out the other options.

Trinkets

If you have any other trinkets they would be more valuable than your current selection. Ilvl isnt important in this area, it's what they do.

I think I need to keep the dagger as it regularly saves my ass from going down, which makes the brez available for someone else. But I do agree that other trinket can probably be replaced.
Would the darkmoon card be a good replacement? I have that at 865.


I shall take your advice on all other topics, thanks!