Nighthold+ affixes

[Deleted]

since accessibility and diversification r the major design principles of Legion, y not adapt the Mythic+ concept 4 raids?
it served well as comfort-challenging content 4 5m, y not 4 raid. (pugged nhc 90 min @900)

from nhc 2 mythic 2 reduce the transitional gaps (hc-m?) and expand content/loot table while reducing the still problematic stratification (ever listed +15 @890?) = + gearing, + training and easier transition into final difficulties (which would be xpanded 2).

there may be some minor issues duration/loot etc.

me imagines skittish+necro blockbuster...

[Deleted]

No. Just... No.

Finding 4 competent players to run your keystone is one thing, but finding 19 other individuals - really?

The difficulty of the current raiding concept for Nighthold especially is more than fine. There is a reason that not even 50 guilds so far have killed Gul'dan on Mythic or are stuck at earlier bosses myself included.

Why make it even harder?

Also - mythic raiding is as designed to be a GUILD activity, not something you pug. Pugging is what you do for content that people has cleared - to pick up those extra gear pieces your missing.

Making mythic raiding puggable (cross-realm would be a necessity etcetc) would pretty much destroy the whole purpose of forming a guild in the first place seeing as there is no reason for it anymore as you can just join any group through the LFG tool

Those are my 10 cents on it

[Deleted]

since accessibility and diversification r the major design principles of Legion, y not adapt the Mythic+ concept 4 raids?
it served well as comfort-challenging content 4 5m, y not 4 raid. (pugged nhc 90 min @900)

from nhc 2 mythic 2 reduce the transitional gaps (hc-m?) and expand content/loot table while reducing the still problematic stratification (ever listed +15 @890?) = + gearing, + training and easier transition into final difficulties (which would be xpanded 2).

there may be some minor issues duration/loot etc.

me imagines skittish+necro blockbuster...

I don't see why everything has to boil down to one system. Can't we have different things that have their own unique feeling and purpose?

[Deleted]

We already have that system somewhat.

From LFR to Normal bosses gain abilities.
From Normal to HC bosses gain abilities.
From HC to Mythic bosses gain abilities.

The current M+ Affixes are simply unusable for raids.

In single-target encounters, Necrotic would just be your garden-variety tank-swap debuff. But in fights like Skopyron or Aluriel, or P3 Augur it would wreack complete havoc on the tanks. Simply not possible. Its works in M+ because you rarely have adds in boss encounters and because you get outfight between trash packs so that it resets. This concept does not translate well to 8+ minute raid encounters.

Other affixes have similar problems. Volcanic is just your garden-variety "run out of this shit" void zone, but we already got those on raid encounters. There is no need or reason to add them with an affix (it would make certain fights ridiculous). And if you remove them from lower diffculties, the bosses really become just loot pinatas.

Raging would be a catastrophe. In M+ you can stun trash packs that start to rage and can burn down bosses with HT and cycling of def CDs during the last 30%. This obviuosly does not work for longer raid encounters where sub-30% often still is 2+ minutes.

And the list goes on and on. Due to the non-timed nature of raids, Fortified would be absolutely irrelevant on Trash, and make add-heavy encounters just impossible or tremedously easy when the affix is not present.


Raid bosses are tuned around their abilities, which kind of already are the affixes. They just don't change over time, the change based on the boss, and the boss is tuned around that. In order to allow for raid affixes, every boss would need to be just a Patchwerk boss, and then get the abilities via the affixes (kinda like M+ bosses). Which is dull and boring. The only reason it keeps M+ entertaining is because the fights are short and its timed.

[Deleted]

Would love affixes in raids and have thought of it quite a lot myself. They could probably not use the ones for dungeons though, as dungeons is primarily trash + bosses, whereas raids is primarily bosses + trash. But the idea of the raid being a little bit different every week is definitely an interesting thought, and scaling it upward would allow all the guilds unable to enter mythic for roster size problems to still have challenging encounters to do until the next raid tier drops.

- - - Updated - - -

We already have that system somewhat.

From LFR to Normal bosses gain abilities.
From Normal to HC bosses gain abilities.
From HC to Mythic bosses gain abilities.

The current M+ Affixes are simply unusable for raids.

In single-target encounters, Necrotic would just be your garden-variety tank-swap debuff. But in fights like Skopyron or Aluriel, or P3 Augur it would wreack complete havoc on the tanks. Simply not possible. Its works in M+ because you rarely have adds in boss encounters and because you get outfight between trash packs so that it resets. This concept does not translate well to 8+ minute raid encounters.

Other affixes have similar problems. Volcanic is just your garden-variety "run out of this shit" void zone, but we already got those on raid encounters. There is no need or reason to add them with an affix (it would make certain fights ridiculous). And if you remove them from lower diffculties, the bosses really become just loot pinatas.

Raging would be a catastrophe. In M+ you can stun trash packs that start to rage and can burn down bosses with HT and cycling of def CDs during the last 30%. This obviuosly does not work for longer raid encounters where sub-30% often still is 2+ minutes.

And the list goes on and on. Due to the non-timed nature of raids, Fortified would be absolutely irrelevant on Trash, and make add-heavy encounters just impossible or tremedously easy when the affix is not present.


Raid bosses are tuned around their abilities, which kind of already are the affixes. They just don't change over time, the change based on the boss, and the boss is tuned around that. In order to allow for raid affixes, every boss would need to be just a Patchwerk boss, and then get the abilities via the affixes (kinda like M+ bosses). Which is dull and boring. The only reason it keeps M+ entertaining is because the fights are short and its timed.

They wouldn't need to be patchwork bosses if the system is an optional continued progress you can engage after clearing it on its difficulty the first time. You would progress through the raid same as usual, once you kill the final boss you could get the option to run it again next week with everything slightly scaled up and say, a modified version of the volcanic affix, or perhaps overflow affix is active. Something like that could definitely work.

I run probably more than ten mythic plus dungeons 13-18 level per week and I reached 54 traits several weeks ago, I already have the legendaries I want, I thought I would have grown tired of them by now but still find them to be really fun and engaging content. Meanwhile Nighthold has already grown stale and boring. As a tank most of the Nighthold fights have barely challenged me at all, although they are better than that thing known as Emerald Nightmare. Mythic plus is far more engaging and fun than raiding at this point and a lot of it has to do with it being different every week.

[Deleted]

They wouldn't need to be patchwork bosses if the system is an optional continued progress you can engage after clearing it on its difficulty the first time. You would progress through the raid same as usual, once you kill the final boss you could get the option to run it again next week with everything slightly scaled up and say, a modified version of the volcanic affix, or perhaps overflow affix is active. Something like that could definitely work.

I don't see how it would make for an enjoyable experience.

Lets say you cleared HC and go HC+1. You get a modified volcanic affix. You get to Aluriel. So.... where exactly is the fun? You already have to deal with well-tuned positional requirements. Adding one more just makes the boss incredibly difficult, possibly more so then Mythic.

So lets remove the positional requirements from normal HC. Then the boss is freeloot on HC and the first real challenge starts at HC+1. But we already have that system, its the progression from LFR to Normal to HC to Mythic.


Some things work well for one kind of content, but nor for another. M+ is very well and I have much fun in it, but it simply wouldn't work out in Raids. M+ has certain encounter that are incredible difficult with certain affixes, and you usually simply avoid them that week. That doesn't work for the limited bosses in Raids. raids are very well-tuned with an overarching difficulty curve. M+ often is a rapid rollercoaster of difficulties between bosses. Thats fine for M+, but not for raids.

Don't shoehorn a system into content where it doesn't fit.

;+ is the best thing Blizzard did for a long time, but please we certainly don't need it for raids.