No sense of progression in Nighthold - Preach video

[KaPe]

Talked to a world top20 raider and they feel the effects of increasing gear. And in his words Preach doesn't get that because they can only progress with comparetively higher ilvls so there isn't much room of performance increase. In other words that argument of Preach was kinda nonsense. There is kill speed progression.

... You state that there isn't much room for performance increase - which was pretty much the point of Preach video - and they say his point was nonsense? Do you not see the contradiction here? Do you not see how you pretty much prove his point?

The vast majority of mythic guilds needed higher item level than World First crowd. This was always the case, not in the least because top guilds can stack whatever classes work best in certain encounters, thus negating part of gearing advantage. However, ilvl growth is slower this time, thanks to all the Titanforging and Mythic being - at least partially - balanced around it. Not much room to grow indeed.

[thottstation]

I never used to understand the resentment people have for Preach.

Then I realized it IS resentment, not simple hate. They resent how he is one of many people that have successfully monetized his hobby. Not only is his job just sitting and playing WoW, and talking about what he thinks is bad about it and what he thinks the game should do instead, but he has monetized it to such a degree that not only has he's quit his job and made THIS his job, but he's leasing offices and employing people. And hosting his own PreachCon.

Meanwhile, everyone else goes on forums and complain about the game, and their only reward is maybe someone replies (good or bad. Any reply is acceptable as long as someone acknowledges them). That's it. They bitterly, bitterly resent him.

That, and the whole "I hate people who clear mythic because I don't" thing. But that's just a default. It's mostly the "I get payed to play and complain about video games" thing. The fact that he makes enough to become not only self-employed but an employer is what sends most people over the vitriolic edge.

[stevenho]

I don't care what the guy does or doesn't do, but his video we're discussing is pretty far from being accurate. Its more of a opinion rant than anything else. Not really worth spending time on.

[Lillyth]

Lets ignore the fact that bosses like Chronomatic Anomaly can be killed on Heroic during the first phase and before the first slowed time phase given you have enough healing and DPS.

[Nightstalker]

... You state that there isn't much room for performance increase - which was pretty much the point of Preach video - and they say his point was nonsense? Do you not see the contradiction here? Do you not see how you pretty much prove his point?

The vast majority of mythic guilds needed higher item level than World First crowd. This was always the case, not in the least because top guilds can stack whatever classes work best in certain encounters, thus negating part of gearing advantage. However, ilvl growth is slower this time, thanks to all the Titanforging and Mythic being - at least partially - balanced around it. Not much room to grow indeed.

And he probably compared ToT killtimes from Top10 Guilds with absolute BIS with the first kills. So its on the same level of relevance.
I also urge all of you to take a look at his guilds progress. They haven't killed Tichondruis after almost a month, dropped from top250 to almost 600 and I highly doubt that the release of the video has nothing to do with this. Most of the earlier bosses die way quicker with higher ilvl. Even my ~rk1000 raid experiences this.

[Tiyr]

I also urge all of you to take a look at his guilds progress. They haven't killed Tichondruis after almost a month, dropped from top250 to almost 600 and I highly doubt that the release of the video has nothing to do with this.

Sure, let's do that:

https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu.../Not+Like+This

They killed Tichondrius three weeks ago and is world 300th. Basically you're full of shit.

Why do you do this? Why do you just make up random garbage? Do you wake up in the morning and spin the wheel to decide who you're going to spew hate on today, or do you have a predefined schedule that you follow?

[Raiju]

I never used to understand the resentment people have for Preach.

Then I realized it IS resentment, not simple hate. They resent how he is one of many people that have successfully monetized his hobby. Not only is his job just sitting and playing WoW, and talking about what he thinks is bad about it and what he thinks the game should do instead, but he has monetized it to such a degree that not only has he's quit his job and made THIS his job, but he's leasing offices and employing people. And hosting his own PreachCon.

Meanwhile, everyone else goes on forums and complain about the game, and their only reward is maybe someone replies (good or bad. Any reply is acceptable as long as someone acknowledges them). That's it. They bitterly, bitterly resent him.

That, and the whole "I hate people who clear mythic because I don't" thing. But that's just a default. It's mostly the "I get payed to play and complain about video games" thing. The fact that he makes enough to become not only self-employed but an employer is what sends most people over the vitriolic edge.

Pretty sure a majority of those on an internet forum - by virtue of the types of people who tend to go on them - would hate to have such a public involved job, even an internet one revolving around gaming.

Nty I much prefer my comfortable office job to posting shit on youtube and getting flamed for it.

[Deleted]

One of his better videos in my opinion.

Pretty much the single worst video he ever made (and he made a lot of absolutely terrible ones).

TL;DR - because of various reasons, farm bosses on mythic are taking the same time to kill as the 1st kill of those bosses, comapred to Throne of thunder, where kill times went down by more than 2/3, and that contributes to fatigue and burnout. I agree, though I can barely be considered as a mythic raider.

TL;DR - wrong data that is proven wrong by using your brain (farm kill times longer than first kill times - sounds legit xD).
Fastest kill by Exploding Labrats vs. their first kill. Oh no only down by 43% - muh sense of progression

[Deleted]

Pretty much the single worst video he ever made (and he made a lot of absolutely terrible ones).



TL;DR - wrong data that is proven wrong by using your brain (farm kill times longer than first kill times - sounds legit xD).
Fastest kill by Exploding Labrats vs. their first kill. Oh no only down by 43% - muh sense of progression

Boiz. The numbers are out there. If you dont know to work with WCL correctly, please let it be.

Here the average differences of all 99% and 95% parses for the first two IDs (week 1 and 2) and the latest two IDs (week 7 and 8) lockouts:

skorpy 99%: 259sec vs 211sec = -18.5%
skopry 95%: 283sec vs 233sec = -18.5%

ca 99%: 256sec vs 203sec = -21%
ca 95%: 274sec vs 223sec = -18.5%

trilliax 99%: 283sec vs 247sec = -13%
trilliax 95%: 300sec vs 262sec = -13%

spellblade 99%: 409sec vs 352sec = -14%
spellblade 95%: 427sec vs 387sec = -9%

krosus 99%: 342sec vs 324sec = -5%
krosus 95%: 348sec vs 335sec = -4%

Tichondrius 99%: 439sec vs 414sec = -6%
Tichondrius 95%: 440sec vs 429sec = -2.5%

Botanist 99%: 479sec vs 443sec = -7.5%
Botanist 95%: 492sec vs 460sec = -6.5%

The kill duration for augur changed by ~20sec since the very first and the latest kills. Remember this boss was hit by major changes (480 vs 460 = -4%)
The kill duration for elisande changed by ~60sec since the very first and the latest kills. Remember this boss was hit by major changes (480 vs 420 = -12.5 %)
The kill duration for guldan changed by ~50sec since the very first and the latest kills (930 vs 880 = -5%)


for 99%-ranked guilds the average kill time duration is decreased by ~11% (~12% for 7/10 bosses)

for 95%-ranked guilds the average kill time duration is decreased by ~9.5% (~7.2% for 7/10 bosses)

after nearly 2 months of raiding (and nearly 10 ilvls more gear).

[Deleted]

Preach's guild can't even kill Star Augur. Since when would his opinion about Nighthold matter. His kill times aren't getting shorter because his raid team is garbage.

[Spacewalrus2010]

My preferred commentary format starts with "Sup y'all, it's me, it's ya boi Asmongold"

Don't know why, but that line every time I hear it is just cringe as all hell.

[Rogalicus]

Preach's guild can't even kill Tichondrius. Since when would his opinion about Nighthold matter. His kill times aren't getting shorter because his raid team is garbage.

Then what's this?

[Deleted]

Then what's this?

Ah by bad I thought he was still in Stark Industries. I did think they killed Tich but when I checked I saw that the hadn't and thought that was even worse than not killing Augur.

I'll amend my post.

[monkfish]

A little off-topic, but has he ever mentioned the reason why he left his previous guild (Stark Industries)?

he didnt 'leave' stark, their 'raid team #1' which he was part of, all left to recreate a seperate guild - Not Like This

[Deja Thoris]

Ah by bad I thought he was still in Stark Industries. I did think they killed Tich but when I checked I saw that the hadn't and thought that was even worse than not killing Augur.

I'll amend my post.

Does someone have to be 10/10M to offer an opinion? I mean coaches that "improve" the worlds best players at golf / soccer / gymnastics aren't as good as the people they coach but nobody questions that they may have valuable insights.

But come to these forums and its full of internet fuckwads (like you) that don't bother to consider the merit of whats being said but instead look to how many internet monsters the person has killed to determine the worth of his opinion. So when its set out like this, does that sound logical and smart or fucking idiotic to you?

Infracted

[Deleted]

Here the average differences of all 99% and 95% parses for the first two IDs (week 1 and 2) and the latest two IDs (week 7 and 8) lockouts:

That's even less relevant than what I posted because whoever was 95% on skorpyron week 1 and 2 isn't gonna be that anymore week 7 and 8.
Compare the specific guild to get that "sense of progression". And there IS a significant reduction in kill time across pretty much all bosses.

And ofc the comparison to 5 month+ lasting ToT is as ridiculous as it gets (also meta gem). Additionally exactly no one is going for speed kills at this point in time.

[KaPe]

And ofc the comparison to 5 month+ lasting ToT is as ridiculous as it gets (also meta gem). Additionally exactly no one is going for speed kills at this point in time.

Meta gem vs the possibility of going 15 item levels higher than Mythic drops thanks to Titanforging and two Legendaries. You'd think it would even out, but it really doesn't. If ToT was released today, it would probably be balanced around the gem, cloak, (was it Warforged or Thunderforged?) and only after item upgrades it would get some actual, indirect nerfs. I'm not exactly sure if this would make it a superior instance.

And why exactly would no one try to go for speed kills? What's stopping them?

[Deleted]

And ofc the comparison to 5 month+ lasting ToT is as ridiculous as it gets (also meta gem). Additionally exactly no one is going for speed kills at this point in time.

he took the data until 2.5 months after release, not 5+.

[Nightstalker]

Sure, let's do that:

https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu.../Not+Like+This

They killed Tichondrius three weeks ago and is world 300th. Basically you're full of shit.

Why do you do this? Why do you just make up random garbage? Do you wake up in the morning and spin the wheel to decide who you're going to spew hate on today, or do you have a predefined schedule that you follow?

So the situation is basically the same, just with Star Augur and still the most obvious reason why he came up with this. They are stuck on boss X and I should have better posted it like this.
Also quite interesting what people interpret as hate these days. Is hate speech the new buzz word to slander other people?

[Brewhan]

Thrill of the kill - he dosen't feel that
Loot- he dosen't feel satisfaction in getting it
Achievments - dosen't care for them

...

Why is he playing this game again?

that youtube money. Just like heelsvbabyface when that british wow player decided to quit making youtube videos about WOW his viewers dropped HARD like 90% or more. At least preach isn't dumb to realize his core audience is wow gamers and if he stops all wow videos his revenue will decrease.