What it takes if you want to get ready for Mythic Krosus as a returning player

[Deleted]

PSA: I know 7.2 will be released soon. I just want to write down what insanity it would take for a returning player to start raiding mythic and not be a liability for the group right now. Tl/tr at bottom

So let's say you are a retuning player. You are quite skilled and used to raid mythic BRF. For some reason you couldn't/didn't want to start at legion launch but want back in the game now. You want to rejoin your old guild and kick it off with them like old times. But halt! you are not yet Mythic ready!

How long would it take you to be mythic ready? And i mean ready for Krosus and beyond.

You are pretty hardcore and managed to level from 100 to 110 in 2 days. Sweet! Let's run through farm raids for 2 resets and i'm good 2 go! Nope!

First you need to farm 7.5k order hall resources to get lvl 15AK. In addition to that you'll need an additional 1k to get the research running.
Then you need another 2550 for the first few Order hall researches.

You definitely are a liability for a guild progressing on Krosus if you don't have at least 2 legendary items. So over the next 2-3 week you will need to farm another 37500 order hall resources. Oh and don't forget the remaining 4k to keep your Artifact research going.

So we are now at a total of 52550 order hall research you need to farm in about a month. Why a month? because it'll take you a month to get to AK 25.

In order to get that many you'll need to do 3-4 world quests every day for 30 days. Oh, let's forget all the questboards and champion equip. we just wanna get ready to raid.

Let's say in those 30 days you did 10 mythic+ a week. So by the time you reach AK25 you've done 40 runs and have gotten about 3.4 mill AP from that. Let's say you get that same amount again from quests. So now you have a total of 6.8 mill AP. That's enough for 36 traits.

Now I can Raid and not be a burden to my raid, right? Well, not quite. You are still missing 9.5% dmg from your artifact traits. Let's say you need 50 traits to not be a burden. Because let's be real. For a first kill on Krosus every dps needs to pull their weight and because you only got 1 average throughput legendary and 1 utility legendary you are kind of dependent on the traits.

So how much longer will it take to get 50 traits in my weapon? Over 200 maw runs if you get 200k AP per run on average.

Fuck it, let's say you get half of the AP from quests and you nerd it up a bit and do 20 maw runs a week. So after another 5 weeks you are AK 50 and finally ready to go. Fuck yeah!

Let's moon lit this bitch up.. wait a second, you are a Moonkin? Uhm, sorry bro. Even if you preform above average and are in the 75th percentile your DPS is still below the average we need to kill him even if we 3 heal. Sorry but pls sit on the bench for this one.


TL/TR in order for a retuning player to get ready for Mythic raiding you need 9 weeks of hardcore farming. That's an insane hurdle for new/returning players to go through to get ready for raiding and one reason why it is so difficult for guilds to recruit new people.

Sorry for the rant guys I just find that insane of you consider you could get raid ready by running through 2 weeks of farm content after you get to max level in earlier expansions.

[Deja Thoris]

So it'll take you about 5 weeks to be properly ready starting from fresh? I guess that seems like a lot in the "now now NOW!" age ^_^

[Deleted]

Then maybe you're not a hardcore mythic raider?

[Nevcairiel]

Expecting to immediately join the absolute top-end players in hardcode activities after mere days is entirely unrealistic.

There should be catch-up mechanics, and there are, but catch-up should not mean you get to the same level as someone that played for months already, in a week.
Not to say that the AP/AK system is perfect, but the expectation to achieve the same starting from "zero" (or level 100 as it may be) then someone that played actively all this time is what is wrong with the community.

Whats the point of progression if anyone can just get boosted to the highest level of progression instantly?
Sure, gear can still be boosted like it always could, but your weapon requires personal investment, and not just ~20 friends to clear a raid for you.

Luckily for "your friend", 7.2 is here within a week or two, which allows anyone to catch up much more easily, plus the changes in 7.2 should make future catch up easier as well, but still require some personal investment into your character.

[Niwes]

yep, if you wanna myth raid with some other toon or start lately the game is just shit. it was never that bad in wow and it just sucks. and there isnt any profit, in exchange, for anybody. its just plain stupid. and horrible game design.

[Deleted]

Holy shit. The autism is strong with the comments on this thread. OP is 100% right. Legion is the FIRST time in 10 years where youre actual Skill doesn't matter. It was always possible to help players returning from a break to jump back into the action after 2-3 weeks of raiding. Now it's a mindless grindfest of repetitve shit. Its by far the worst system there ever was.

<<< Raidleader of a 2 day 5/10 Mythic guild.

Infracted

[Deja Thoris]

Holy shit. The autism is strong with the comments on this thread.

Is that a mean comment about your own post?

[clevin]

What's the problem? Should someone who sat around for MONTHS just be able to come back and instantly be ready for a mid-level mythic boss in the current tier? Or should they have to put in some real effort to get back to where the rest of us are given that we put in months worth of work?

- - - Updated - - -

Holy shit. The autism is strong with the comments on this thread. OP is 100% right. Legion is the FIRST time in 10 years where youre actual Skill doesn't matter. It was always possible to help players returning from a break to jump back into the action after 2-3 weeks of raiding. Now it's a mindless grindfest of repetitve shit. Its by far the worst system there ever was.

<<< Raidleader of a 2 day 5/10 Mythic guild.

Oh cry more. It's ridiculous that you wrath babies seem to think you should be able to sit out for months and then come back and be raid ready in a couple of weeks. Sure, skill should matter. But so does gearing and if I could come back and be ready in a couple of weeks... why should I play until I want to raid?

[DrStiglit]

That's the unsubbing tax. They don't want you to quit and be able to come back easily. They want you to need a reason to stay.

[WhatIsLegion]

What's the problem? Should someone who sat around for MONTHS just be able to come back and instantly be ready for a mid-level mythic boss in the current tier? Or should they have to put in some real effort to get back to where the rest of us are given that we put in months worth of work?

- - - Updated - - -



Oh cry more. It's ridiculous that you wrath babies seem to think you should be able to sit out for months and then come back and be raid ready in a couple of weeks.

If someone is skilled enough there is no reason they should be held back by anything other than gear. If they're boosted to get that gear that is completely fine. Locking players out of content for weeks upon weeks because of artificial time barriers is pointless and lazy game design. Blizzard should focus on actual content instead of being lazy and pretending that things like AK is quality content. It's time gated because they failed to come up with any meaningful content once again.

[Nnyco]

why should you be on par with people who played alot more when you just came back

[clevin]

If someone is skilled enough there is no reason they should be held back by anything other than gear. If they're boosted to get that gear that is completely fine. Locking players out of content for weeks upon weeks because of artificial time barriers is pointless and lazy game design. Blizzard should focus on actual content instead of being lazy and pretending that things like AK is quality content. It's time gated because they failed to come up with any meaningful content once again.

"Boost me all of you people who've put in the work to gear over the last few months! It's all about MEEEEE!!!!"

Everything OP bitches about was known at launch. They could have subbed and at the least kept up on AK and stuff. But no, they couldn't or wouldn't do that. Now they want not just to raid but to raid at the highest level of the current tier and instantly be competitive with people who've put in far more effort. No.

And guess what? Instead of doing all that so they're at least ready for ToS, we'll see them bitching that they can't just come back then and instantly get boosted.

[Deleted]

"Boost me all of you people who've put in the work to gear over the last few months! It's all about MEEEEE!!!!"

Everything OP bitches about was known at launch. They could have subbed and at the least kept up on AK and stuff. But no, they couldn't or wouldn't do that. Now they want not just to raid but to raid at the highest level of the current tier and instantly be competitive with people who've put in far more effort. No.

And guess what? Instead of doing all that so they're at least ready for ToS, we'll see them bitching that they can't just come back then and instantly get boosted.

You dont get it. It's not about ME ME ME. Like I said: I am leading my own mythic guild. I have a friend who was an unbelievable good warrior in the last past AddOns and he just came back a couple of weeks ago. WE want HIM DESPERATLY for our raid, because WE KNOW that he will help us in this retarded content. But we simply can't because he´s still missing 10% dmg from Artifact Weapon.

Another case: Our Feral Drood wants to reroll on his monk. We would like to make this change as soon as we can but yet again: fuckin artifact power blocks us from doing this. I had to told him, that hes stuck on his druid till the next raidtier comes out.

[Socialhealer]

and you know what?

if blizz let you skip all the stuff you mention, people bitch they did all content in 2 weeks.

go play a phone game where you can drop 250$ and buy all the best gear instantly, say look now i can compete with the best, get bored and stop playing 2 weeks later because there's nothing to do.

7.2 comes out soon he can catch up then, blizzard has your answer, but expecting ppl to be able to just ding 110 and be mythic raid ready in 2 weeks sounds like a shit game to me.

[clevin]

You dont get it. It's not about ME ME ME. Like I said: I am leading my own mythic guild. I have a friend who was an unbelievable good warrior in the last past AddOns and he just came back a couple of weeks ago. WE want HIM DESPERATLY for our raid, because WE KNOW that he will help us in this retarded content. But we simply can't because he´s still missing 10% dmg from Artifact Weapon.

Another case: Our Feral Drood wants to reroll on his monk. We would like to make this change as soon as we can but yet again: fuckin artifact power blocks us from doing this. I had to told him, that hes stuck on his druid till the next raidtier comes out.

And once again, the warrior took time off. Decisions have consequences. Now, do I LOVE the AP system? No, but everyone knew the system from launch on. And here's the thing... if you gear the warrior so he would do, say, 700K at 54 traits then with only 35 traits he'll do.... 630k. That's STILL very credible for most content. YOU are making the decision to say "No matter how good he is, we refuse to take him without 54 traits." None of the Mythic NH bosses until after Krosus are tuned around 54. You COULD take him and not lose anything much unless you all do way more DPS than he will. You choose not to.

Same for your druid - they've known the system for months. They could have been keeping the monk up with at least 35 artifact traits and reasonable gear. They chose not to.

Look, I'm not in love with the AP thing. But the Wrath baby idea that you should be able to have a stable of alts who can all raid at the highest level without hardly any catchup just feels wrong to me.

[Valech]

The real "to long to read" version

> Returning Raider
> Wants to instantly be involved in Mythic Raiding
> Finds having AP in weapon a roadblocker to it
> OP talks in a hypothetical manner, e.g. "a friend having this issue" when it's really them

Welcome to Legion

Thank you, I was suspecting this.

[hulkgor]

Returning players should ALWAYS have some hurdles to get past, if you want to seriously raid. Even if its 1-2 months, which it's not, that's perfectly adequate if you had 0 time spent in the expansion.

People wanting to instantly be ready for top tier raiding without time or effort is absurd.

[Leyre]

Holy shit. The autism is strong with the comments on this thread. OP is 100% right. Legion is the FIRST time in 10 years where youre actual Skill doesn't matter. It was always possible to help players returning from a break to jump back into the action after 2-3 weeks of raiding. Now it's a mindless grindfest of repetitve shit. Its by far the worst system there ever was.

<<< Raidleader of a 2 day 5/10 Mythic guild.

you're instead of your
>talking about autism

[Astigmatizm]

So it'll take you about 5 weeks to be properly ready starting from fresh? I guess that seems like a lot in the "now now NOW!" age ^_^

It's been faster than this in every other expansion to date. Hitting max-level, with a few friends (in a geared guild) to quickly equip you took a max of maybe 2-weeks (see: WoD and previous)

Previously the only 'roadblocks' was the amount of time you were willing to grind certain dungeons for certain pieces + farm raids with a geared guild.

Now you have artificial roadblocks such as AP (time-gated) and Legendaries (luck + time gated). GL trying to do Krosus as a DH without Ring or Shoulders.

Nobody is saying you should be able to run Mythics within 1 week. But artificial time-gating is stupid and serves no point.

[Deja Thoris]

It's been faster than this in every other expansion to date. Hitting max-level, with a few friends (in a geared guild) to quickly equip you took a max of maybe 2-weeks (see: WoD and previous)

Previously the only 'roadblocks' was the amount of time you were willing to grind certain dungeons for certain pieces + farm raids with a geared guild.

Now you have artificial roadblocks such as AP (time-gated) and Legendaries (luck + time gated). GL trying to do Krosus as a DH without Ring or Shoulders.

Nobody is saying you should be able to run Mythics within 1 week. But artificial time-gating is stupid and serves no point.

There were legendary cloaks in MoP and a ring that had a ludicrous increase in power in WoD (from 735 ilevel to 795).

The cloak was gated behind lots of quest chains where you had to collect widgets for weeks and the ring was a 20 week process. So tell me again how you could be up to speed in 2 weeks? You couldn't.

Time gating has always been a thing. MoP he would have lost out on a melee cleave cloak (that was quite easily 5-10% of your damage). In WoD he would have lost out on an extremely powerful dps boos from the ring. Why is whats happening now seen as new and different?