Arms Legion Discussion

[Anbokr]

Rip arms long live fury

Tomb is going to be very interesting. Both Arms and Fury have a lot to lose going in, not as easy to predict as NH.

[thatmikeguy]

Is the Arms stat priority changing?

[Bigbazz]

Why you guys crying RIP Arms? My testing had Arms comfortably ahead of Fury on dummies in T20 gear, I didn't get all the testing I wanted as my bloody hard drive literally died during, but what came out quite clear was that Arms was quite clearly ahead of Fury on single target. Of the new trinkets I ended up settling back on Draught of Souls and COF, though I've not seen the TOS fights so I don't know how it will work out in practice.

I've not played in months on live really, my gear is still ilvl899 equipped there. With the gear swaps to T20 on the PTR I was at around ilvl900-905 depending on setup with 45 traits. Anyway with that in mind I was comfortably sustaining over 900k with no consumables on the raid dummy with no execute phase, and for about 150mil damage was holding above 1mil dps despite hilarious lag. My current char in T19 on live sims like 910k with full consumables, bloodlust and an execute phase, and while it seems I may lose some dps between Live and PTR with current gear, by the time I'm in T20 even at the same ilvl bracket my dps will be much higher than it is now.

T20 interaction with the Legendary Gloves is real, removes the "need" for Deadly Calm.. Though I did have good results also running T20x4 + T19x2 and using the Boots for stats instead of the gloves, also able to sit comfortably over 900k. And I was able to do very promising results with both Deadly Calm and Titanic Might. Gameplay is slower now, much more rage hungry and I'm not a fan, but there is no need for cry babying over Arms.

Not true. They sent the increased Battle Cry set bonus to the t19 2 piece, unfortunately, they decreased it to 1 second. I mean, it's one second longer than no bonus.

When I tested the set bonus was as it is on live, the 2 set providing tactition procs that is.

[Kaljurei]

@Bigbazz Could you share PTR Logs if possible? Would like to see how the damage breakdown and waiting time is like.

[Bullarkie]

Why you guys crying RIP Arms? My testing had Arms comfortably ahead of Fury on dummies in T20 gear, I didn't get all the testing I wanted as my bloody hard drive literally died during, but what came out quite clear was that Arms was quite clearly ahead of Fury on single target. Of the new trinkets I ended up settling back on Draught of Souls and COF, though I've not seen the TOS fights so I don't know how it will work out in practice.

I've not played in months on live really, my gear is still ilvl899 equipped there. With the gear swaps to T20 on the PTR I was at around ilvl900-905 depending on setup with 45 traits. Anyway with that in mind I was comfortably sustaining over 900k with no consumables on the raid dummy with no execute phase, and for about 150mil damage was holding above 1mil dps despite hilarious lag. My current char in T19 on live sims like 910k with full consumables, bloodlust and an execute phase, and while it seems I may lose some dps between Live and PTR with current gear, by the time I'm in T20 even at the same ilvl bracket my dps will be much higher than it is now.

T20 interaction with the Legendary Gloves is real, removes the "need" for Deadly Calm.. Though I did have good results also running T20x4 + T19x2 and using the Boots for stats instead of the gloves, also able to sit comfortably over 900k. And I was able to do very promising results with both Deadly Calm and Titanic Might. Gameplay is slower now, much more rage hungry and I'm not a fan, but there is no need for cry babying over Arms.



When I tested the set bonus was as it is on live, the 2 set providing tactition procs that is.

Can you link your logs?

[Deleted]

Can you link your logs?

Theres never logs for these kind of posts.

[Bigbazz]

Can you link your logs?

@Bigbazz Could you share PTR Logs if possible? Would like to see how the damage breakdown and waiting time is like.

Don't have any logs, my hard drive also died while I was testing and I lost everything, which I mentioned in the post, even if had been logging I'd have nothing to show. Go test it for yourself, the PTR is there for everyone, gear vendors in Dalaran.

I was making a post for all the crybabying by people who have done nothing but read patch notes, who don't realise how crazy good Arms is with the T20.

[Flaks]

Arms plays so damn amazing now without focused rage but continuously rage caps. The ability should have been made baseline a full year ago in beta.

[Bigbazz]

For you lazy bastards who can't download a PTR client, I went on there today for 5mins and logged some combat for you. No buffs/consumables, no execute phase, 46 traits with ilvl905 equipped, T20x4 with MS Gloves + Execute ring and using DOS + COF trinkets.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=4 . I'm getting between 600-900ms latency at the best of times, and above 1000 occasionally so don't expect magic. The "DPS" value is not accurate since it logs other players in the area (not grouped) so the combat is shown before I started fighting and also for a time after. Skada showed 914k dps at the end of combat, with this being a more laggy and less favourable RNG run than I got the other night.

If you want more extensive data then go get it yourself, I have no permanent net connection atm (connecting to area wifi with a usb dongle to do this). A friend with a decent connection did a test for me when my harddrive died, he did a 200mil damage run and ended on 1.05mil dps, same setup as mine gear wise but at 915ilvl equipped, he's better geared since he actively plays live.

[Deleted]

For you lazy bastards who can't download a PTR client, I went on there today for 5mins and logged some combat for you. No buffs/consumables, no execute phase, 46 traits with ilvl905 equipped, T20x4 with MS Gloves + Execute ring and using DOS + COF trinkets.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=4 . I'm getting between 600-900ms latency at the best of times, and above 1000 occasionally so don't expect magic. The "DPS" value is not accurate since it logs other players in the area (not grouped) so the combat is shown before I started fighting and also for a time after. Skada showed 914k dps at the end of combat, with this being a more laggy and less favourable RNG run than I got the other night.

If you want more extensive data then go get it yourself, I have no permanent net connection atm (connecting to area wifi with a usb dongle to do this). A friend with a decent connection did a test for me when my harddrive died, he did a 200mil damage run and ended on 1.05mil dps, same setup as mine gear wise but at 915ilvl equipped, he's better geared since he actively plays live.

Yeah ok, but what talents you where running, FR with ravager in last tier? And whats your weapon ilvl. Mine is really low, like 913 and best I can do is somewhere around 840-880k 907eq with funny talent setup like this http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/arms/c94c

[Bigbazz]

Yeah ok, but what talents you where running, FR with ravager in last tier? And whats your weapon ilvl. Mine is really low, like 913 and best I can do is somewhere around 840-880k 907eq with funny talent setup like this http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/arms/c94c

Dauntless, FR, Ravager, Titanic Might, Avatar. Weapon is 919, +10 rage, Precise Strikes + Tactition relics.

Edit : And just to clarify here, these numbers on PTR with new changes and in T20 are miles ahead of a T19 player on live, even looking at it cautiously it's in the region of 10-15% ahead at the same ilvl on pure single target, while being much stronger in general AOE/cleave situations. Only thing I will say is that higher rage costs with FR will make the spec require more care/skill to maximise.

If people attempt to play like they do on live they will just rage starve constantly, the good players will not have this problem in the slightest.

[Deleted]

Dauntless, FR, Ravager, Titanic Might, Avatar. Weapon is 919, +10 rage, Precise Strikes + Tactition relics.

Edit : And just to clarify here, these numbers on PTR with new changes and in T20 are miles ahead of a T19 player on live, even looking at it cautiously it's in the region of 10-15% ahead at the same ilvl on pure single target, while being much stronger in general AOE/cleave situations. Only thing I will say is that higher rage costs with FR will make the spec require more care/skill to maximise.

If people attempt to play like they do on live they will just rage starve constantly, the good players will not have this problem in the slightest.

Thanks for sharing. If you would have logged with "advanced combat logging" enabled, my question wouldn't be necessary;

What exactly was the action priority you followed? Somehow I can reproduce your figures by manually changing the simulationcraft APL for 7.2.5.
Specificially interested in FR Rage minimum and suchlike.

[Cecoura]

hey there is somewhere a post for 7.2.5 gearing as Arms? like can we go 2x 2piece tier set bonus or BEST items from ToS / best Relicts from ToS
(yeah i know that in legion there aren't any BIS lists because of m+ and some other titanforged stuff)

and are there any sims / predicitions for stat weights from PTR out?

greetz

[Bigbazz]

Thanks for sharing. If you would have logged with "advanced combat logging" enabled, my question wouldn't be necessary;

What exactly was the action priority you followed? Somehow I can reproduce your figures by manually changing the simulationcraft APL for 7.2.5.
Specificially interested in FR Rage minimum and suchlike.

Aye I didn't turn it on, but remembering to activate that when you're in a rush and on a new install, the last time I had to activate that was years ago on live. But yeah I don't normally log on PTR because I don't need to, I do the testing for myself and not for others and the damage meters (skada/details) provides everything I need to know. As for rotation, it wasn't very optimised to begin with, not much thought put into it and also a lot of ability lag on PTR with my current connection especially meaning the execution in the parse is not very tight. I really urge people to go see for themselves, while there will be plenty of information out soon from the results of others testing, things become very clear when you just get on there and start giving things a try.

But anyway this was my approach. apply CS debuff > Ravager down (it has a longer duration than Battle Cry) > BC + MS / Exe ring proc (Exe priority) > DOS cast. Outside of burst windows maintain the standard rotation, that is no FR use outside of Shattered Defense and only 1x FR used outside of burst windows, with a standard 3 stack prepared just prior to BC (this bit I'm actually unsure of now, with Titanic Might talented).

Ravager casts of MS do consume Focused Rage and Executioners Precision, so I haven't figured out the best approach to maximising the burst window in regards to FR and Ravager/BC yet. If you drop Ravager prior to Battle Cry then it could consume the 3x FR stacks before Battle Cry is up and also before you cast your standard MS as the first GCD of the BC window, I've not had time to see when the 4x MS casts are firing off during the Ravager duration to see how this interaction works. While running Titanic Might rage management during BC is an issue, if running Deadly Calm it's business as usual.

I've not been on the PTR since and I might not get back on there for some time. It's a bit crazy that I still maintain this interest in the game when I've been out of it for months, and I don't even have a working stable internet connection, like living in the stone age here fuck it all.

[Deleted]

For you lazy bastards who can't download a PTR client, I went on there today for 5mins and logged some combat for you. No buffs/consumables, no execute phase, 46 traits with ilvl905 equipped, T20x4 with MS Gloves + Execute ring and using DOS + COF trinkets.

I think COF makes big difference here, because you were able to line up ravager + BC everytime with almost no delay. Thanks for providing logs by the way. Also, on average you used CS every 5,3 seconds which is more than on people do on live with top logs so your log is pretty pro RNG, again not taking anything away from you but just pointing that out. But you did not use avatar on CD, but that probably is because BC did not line up properly.

I went to PTR myself and I either had to: delay ravager or delay BC and because then DOS usage was really awkward. My best try with TM + Ravager was ~770k @ 906 ilvl with no execute. With this spec I only used ravager with BC. Which made t20 2pc worthless.

Regular live spec was also really awkward to play on PTR because if I did not get CS procs I became rage starved, and then everything synced like shit. Cof will help with this tho. On 6 minutes TM+Rava pull I used more CS's than I did on 8 minute pull with regular live spec. RNG reliance is really big with current live spec atleast.

Pull 2 with live spec I used CS 29 times, which is 1 CS every 7,3 seconds which is shit RNG but cs was always up when I used CD's. DPS at 3min 33 seconds with skada was 733k.

edit: mention about ravager usage with BC. Most probably mine usage was not optimal.

edit2: the ravager spec was nice to play atleast

[Teaon]

well defo bigbazz build do way higher damage than the standrad build, its because the opener is super insane, i mean i managed to burst 2m, then fall to managed to sustan 830k, which falls to 760k then back up to 900k with each burst.

probably blizzard is going to hit our burst potentional with a nerf, but this build is soooooooooooo "built" around certain items, which is super bad design.

i mean you need CoF + DoS to do it probably, luckly i have 890 cof parked and 915 dos, but rip those who dont have any, or weak ones.

gotta have to wait for warriorsarri and archi stuff, since they locked their shit for obvoius reasons.

[Bigbazz]

I think COF makes big difference here, because you were able to line up ravager + BC everytime with almost no delay. Thanks for providing logs by the way. Also, on average you used CS every 5,3 seconds which is more than on people do on live with top logs so your log is pretty pro RNG, again not taking anything away from you but just pointing that out. But you did not use avatar on CD, but that probably is because BC did not line up properly.

I went to PTR myself and I either had to: delay ravager or delay BC and because then DOS usage was really awkward. My best try with TM + Ravager was ~770k @ 906 ilvl with no execute. With this spec I only used ravager with BC. Which made t20 2pc worthless.

Regular live spec was also really awkward to play on PTR because if I did not get CS procs I became rage starved, and then everything synced like shit. Cof will help with this tho. On 6 minutes TM+Rava pull I used more CS's than I did on 8 minute pull with regular live spec. RNG reliance is really big with current live spec atleast.

Pull 2 with live spec I used CS 29 times, which is 1 CS every 7,3 seconds which is shit RNG but cs was always up when I used CD's. DPS at 3min 33 seconds with skada was 733k.

edit: mention about ravager usage with BC. Most probably mine usage was not optimal.

edit2: the ravager spec was nice to play atleast

RNG always plays a role that's the issue and why we need to sim these and see mass parsing before anything can be taken as concrete. I will say though that I did have some droughts of RNG during that run that saw the DPS dip. When I first posted about It I had a run of multiple attempts doing higher dps than the log, due to better RNG and also better latency situation, less delay on abilities meaning I was just getting better execution.

It's probably worth it to pre cast Avatar once you have the timing right so that it's still entirely covering the BC phase but also minimising the overall delay in use, in some situations there could be benefit to that but in others not, will depend on boss timings etc. It's in no way an optimised gameplay, just proof of concept of that build I was talking about, which may still not be the best setup. I'm still not 100% sure about DOS with the gear setup vs the new trinkets, but for sure COF seems like a necessity.

With good RNG Deadly Calm will be stronger, and with an execute phase included Deadly Calm instantly gains value compared to static dummy testing, but for sure Titanic Might seems very usable and I think it will be a go too choice for many situations.

[Holofernes]

basically what bigbazz does is the aluriel mythic arms build. 1 minute timer big ae. I couldnt make it work with cof, because cooldowns never line up if u fiddle bc. Thats why most people use meteorit whetstone as 2nd trinket (for even more ae dmg) for single target, i would recommand an arcano or statstick if u are unlucky like me.

And yep, u have to precast avatar if u want your second ravager go all out. (check aluriel mythic logs, some are doing it (me for example, but jesus our guilds pull timers on alurial are so random ). Basically its 1 3 5 (and all other evens) window with avatar at pull, and you can make this precast 1 into 2 into 4 and so on. Dos is used as avatar bc ravager are up.

[Bigbazz]

basically what bigbazz does is the aluriel mythic arms build. 1 minute timer big ae. I couldnt make it work with cof, because cooldowns never line up if u fiddle bc. Thats why most people use meteorit whetstone as 2nd trinket (for even more ae dmg) for single target, i would recommand an arcano or statstick if u are unlucky like me.

And yep, u have to precast avatar if u want your second ravager go all out. (check aluriel mythic logs, some are doing it (me for example, but jesus our guilds pull timers on alurial are so random ). Basically its 1 3 5 (and all other evens) window with avatar at pull, and you can make this precast 1 into 2 into 4 and so on. Dos is used as avatar bc ravager are up.

It works well on PTR though (which is what we're discussing if it's not clear) since the T20 reduces the cooldown on Ravager when CS is cast. That means combined with COF it lines up really well with Battle Cry, almost 1/1 ratio most of the time. If you don't have COF with Ravager using T20 your Ravager cooldown is always going to be roughly 10-15 seconds ahead of Battle Cry, depending on tactition procs.

[LazyCoding]

It works well on PTR though (which is what we're discussing if it's not clear) since the T20 reduces the cooldown on Ravager when CS is cast. That means combined with COF it lines up really well with Battle Cry, almost 1/1 ratio most of the time. If you don't have COF with Ravager using T20 your Ravager cooldown is always going to be roughly 10-15 seconds ahead of Battle Cry, depending on tactition procs.

Bladestorm and BC also almost lined up (without CoF) in my tests. Either with AM or OpS picked they still line up. The difference is AM reduces cooldown of the combo by nearly 15 seconds.

I guess the choice between AM and Ravager will depend on wheter or not the extra damage you deal during Ravager is higher than a ToS trinket can do.