Give LFR it's own loot lockout - the solution for all sides

[araine]

I'll start this by saying that I can't stand the idea of LFR. I don't believe that it is interesting in any way shape or form. I believe that it is neither engaging, nor conducive to any kind of personal enjoyment, for me. I do acknowledge that it is here to say and how a vast majority of the playerbase experiences the content

The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.

The second has been addressed by Blizzard and is why we have wings released on a delayed schedule for LFR. Sounds good. The third argument that I mentioned is that new players will see the herp-derp mode, feel like they've completed the game, and decide they're done until the new stuff.

The former point, I believe, can be remedied by having a loot lockout that is solely for LFR. If you complete a boss on LFR then you cannot receive anything from that boss in any other difficulty throughout the reset. The same goes vice versa for the other difficulties meaning that if a boss is killed on Heroic difficulty there is nothing to be gained from killing it on LFR difficulty.

There would then be no reason for anyone who does not wish to run LFR to feel like they have to, and LFR people would finally be free of all the elitist-scum who come into their LFR. They'd be left to their own devices to progress through the raid at whatever speed that randomly assigned group can muster.

TL;DR - Give LFR its own loot lockout. You can either get loot from LFR or the other three difficulties. Higher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain, and LFR raiders wont have to get bitched at for trying to experience the game in a way that suits them

Flame on if you disagree. I might have a terrible idea and that's fine, but I feel that this would satisfy both the LFR crowd and the anti-LFR crowd. Thoughts?

Only acceptable if we lootlock heroic normal and mythic as well and make them share raidlockout across all difficulties and loot across all difficulties.

If not it is just your typical bash LFR nonsense excuse by the snowflakes

[Deleted]

I would actually be fine with that.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes, let's restrict the game to protect people lacking restraints and self-control from themselves. Can't have the 1% of the 1% burn out through having too much content to do in this MMORPG!!!


/S

[Svisalith]

So your theory is removing those extra very small chances to TF some piece would be popular. That seems unlikely. As well with AP requirements. Very unlikely that making TF, legendaries or acquiring AP more difficult to get would be some popular solution.

I didn't mention either titanforging or AP, maybe you got me mixed up with someone else there.

Legendary droprates, which I don't believe are 'extremely good' to start with, need to be balanced against how long you have to wait in queue if you are going to measure on a per hour basis.

A lot of high level players make blitzgroups for instant queues and fast clears.

-----

No, the way to fix this under the current raid schema is for people to exercise some self-control or question their guild requirements for AP.

It's not about the guilds, players will always follow the path of least resistance when it's more than a little bit beneficial to do so.

If you want to advance your character by a certain amount and there are two activities that can do that, one of them (A) takes 2 hours while the other (B) takes 10 hours then almost everybody will take activity A even if B is way more fun and appropriate.

This is a pretty basic thing in game design, making sure that the fun way to play the game and the optimal way to play the game for progress line up, at least roughly. If killing boars in Elywnn made your character level 5x faster than doing any of the quests and story content in the game then it would be a game design issue, for example; people will talk about not being forced to kill the boars because there are other far slower options but it does not change the design problem.

Personally i think that being rewarded highly for doing 2 raid difficulties is cool, 3 is unfun and 4 is absurd. One player might do LFR and stretch into normal, another might do Heroic and stretch into Mythic; there's no need for the best way to play the game to include doing your top tier raid and every single raid difficulty below it every week.

[MoanaLisa]

If you want to advance your character by a certain amount and there are two activities that can do that, one of them (A) takes 2 hours while the other (B) takes 10 hours then almost everybody will take activity A even if B is way more fun and appropriate.

People should do what's fun. I see this constantly that people are spending hours engaging in stuff that they dislike due to social pressure or whatever. I feel sorry for them but it's best to remember that WoW is a game. Games should be fun. It's not a job; there is no social responsibility required of it other than what the player takes on for their own purposes. If you are playing video games that are not fun then there's little I can do to help you. Nor will I have any sympathy for those that complain about their self-selected game path.

If killing boars is boring, I wouldn't do it. And neither should anyone else. If that's their choice and they hate it, that's their problem. Not mine. Not Blizzard's.

[Svisalith]

It's an MMO, some parts of the game are more fun than others. The best ways to progress in game being a lot less fun than some other underutilized options is definitely a game design issue.

It's not a game killer of course (unless it were to get really bad) but it's something that should be continually monitored to avoid straying too far away from the ideal of rewarding content being fun and challenging for any given player.

[Orangetai420]

In an ideal world I would agree, but the forums would get flooded with people crying about hour long queue times.

- - - Updated - - -

LFR is one of the greatest additions to have ever been implemented in WoW. It's definitely in the top 5 of best ones.
Anything that would stop people from participating in it is a bad idea.

Funny, I think it was the worst addition to WoW. LFD comes in second and flying at 3rd.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Deleted]

Funny, I think it was the worst addition to WoW. LFD comes in second and flying at 3rd.

Different strokes for different folks.

Well... you think wrong...
If you don't like them, just don't use them.

[Jtbrig7390]

That is on the players though. If they can't govern their own play time and what they do with it that is on them. If we start taking this approach we will start cutting back the amount of quests you can do, cap mythic + dungeons and add in all sorts of foolish and needless limits to save dummies from themselves.

I don't disagree and to be honest I think it should stay how it is.

But if they are going to do lockout's in the future, don't make it exclusive to LFR. Blizzard should go ether all the way or not at all.

(also LFR should release with NM or at lease Mythic when it opens).

[Jokerfiend]

It's not about the guilds, players will always follow the path of least resistance.

The path of least resistance in any MMO or sports is acquiring any advantage at all. This can be seen when top guilds use "clever use of mechanics." Regardless if they intended it or not, they will make full use, or even purely exploit it.

One team is doing all of these things, you won't be able to compete with them if you're not. This has a snowball effect across the game in general, or even the genre.

When you actually look at the problem, it's competition. It has little to do with activities in and of themselves. It's the fact, that if you don't take advantage of an advantage, then you are left behind.

It's the personal responsibility to use discretion. Which why I don't think burn out truly exists. Because if you could handle it, then it would never be a problem.

If you use discretion, then enjoyment of this game and the genre increase 100%. You might not be the top of anything, but you will find a grander and far more enjoyable experience.

If you want the top, and you get "burned out", then the top was never for you and might not be achievable.

[Svisalith]

When you actually look at the problem, it's competition. It has little to do with activities in and of themselves.

If you can achieve a goal in 2 hours of boring content instead of 10 hours of fun content then many people would take the 2 hour option even if they're the only person playing the game; we see this all of the time in single player games. It's especially true when it comes to unlocking stuff like new options/levels to then do other content.

Impossible to perfectly balance but an ideal game would have the fun way to play be the most rewarding or be close enough to not be important.

If you can speed up your goal by 20% by giving up fun then most people will stick to the fun stuff and have fun.

If giving up fun means speeding up the goal by 300% then many people will do that and then hate the game because progressing and having fun are now two entirely seperate things instead of fitting together nicely.

Why should a player choose between progressing or having fun when a game can be tuned to promote both at the same time? Again, it doesn't have to be perfectly tuned but completely decoupling character progression from fun activities is a recipe for disaster.

Blizzard does (and always has) kept a close eye on this in other areas of WoW so i'm surprised to see that so many people have never considered it before.

[Jokerfiend]

If you can achieve a goal in 2 hours of boring content instead of 10 hours of fun content then many people would take that option even if they're the only person playing the game; we see this all of the time in single player games.

It's that persons responsibility to play the game how they want. You want shortcuts but it's painful, maybe you are a masochist. I'm certainly not.

I don't play games on other people's terms anymore. I highly recommend it.

[Korru]

LFR ravaged my town, murdered my family, skinned my dog alive, and disgraced my family name.

It should be removed.

[Jastall]

This is a terrible idea to a nigh on non-existent problem. Who cares if a few hundred no-lifers feel ''forced'' to run LFR? Let people exercise their own restraint, or lack thereof.

[BannedForViews]

Make it so LFR loot can't WF/TF.

make it so all loot cant.

[ohgasauraus]

Not everyone is here to flame you buddy, as someone who has a family, full time career children etc. and yet still raids mythic 2-3 days per week in a US top 100, I think this is an excellent idea! I Would love having to only do Normal/Heroic/Mythic etc 1 raid 1 time per week...right now it's fucking overboard, I have to do all 4 difficulties to keep up with AP. Anyone who thinks otherwise being in a high tiered mythic guild is delusional.

I think LFR is a fantastic addition to the game, prior to legion it's true we weren't required to do LFR and I did not, however with AP being introduced the gain from an LFR clear is too big to not be obligated to do it. Sad days.

So are the type of person that run every m+ possible and all mythic non keystone? If you not already do those, you can also forgo some/all LFR, because same reason you do not do all m+ all the time or all mythic non keystone apply. No time for content therefore you should skip some of those content. Stop using AP as an excuse for force to do LFR because it is the same as why you didn't do M+ 24/7 which also gives AP.

No content in the game is compulsory. Play what you can and play what you want, but do not dictate how others play that very same game. Do not attempt to suggest how you want to control the content so that others that have time to do more cannot enjoy those content. You are just paying subscription like everyone else, who are you to say what who can or cannot do because you do not like it?

[Jtbrig7390]

If you can achieve a goal in 2 hours of boring content instead of 10 hours of fun content then many people would take the 2 hour option

Boring and fun is subjective not objective. I quite enjoy LFR and I don't enjoy the BS that comes with NM+.

[Sanguinerd]

Why should the majority of the entire playerbase give two shits about what high end raiders like or dislike? It's been said before and I'll happily say it again, nobody, read: NOBODY forces you or anyone else to do LFR. If "high end raiders" feel they NEED to, it's their decision.

I like doing LFR and since I don't raid actively anyone I like coming along with my guild whenever they need me. Why the f**k shouldn't I be allowed to do so? Because you "can't stand the idea of LFR"? The real truth is; LFR makes insecure little shits feel less important and you can't stand that. You don't like it when "lesser" players do the same content you do, look as cool as you do and probably out play you when you force yourself to do LFR. Well suck it up.

The only people that make LFR a problem are the people that don't even need to do it.

[Taus]

Someone has to collect the runes to sell, genius.

Nice.

I don't see them here bitching about it though.

[stomination]

Higher end raiders do LFR? I find that hard to believe, considering the only thing you could realistically get is more BLP... And they're probably done/almost done with their legendaries anyway.

Ap relics. you know how crazy those ppl are.