Top End guilds quitting

[Eapoe]

You must be thinking of a specific expansion or something. WotLK/Cata was not like that at all.

You're either misunderstanding the example or I'm not explaining it right. That last post was specifically discussing the 10/25 raiding being the exact same in loot table. The game was exactly like what I'm describing.
Face it, 10 man was much much easier for the majority of the boss encounters than 25 man was.

[Soisoisoi]

You're either misunderstanding the example or I'm not explaining it right. That last post was specifically discussing the 10/25 raiding being the exact same in loot table. The game was exactly like what I'm describing.
Face it, 10 man was much much easier for the majority of the boss encounters than 25 man was.

10man was generally tuned easier (duh), but 25man had it easier in terms of mistake scaling, i.e. 1 person dies is far LESS impact on 25man than on 10man (1/25th vs 1/10th overall -
1/6th your raid's DPS vs 1/18th, or half the healers vs a fifth, etc) and in 25man you have far more raid cooldowns/variety than in 10man which was my biggest issue with it, simply not having enough raid cooldowns to cover a bosses mechanics.

25man, if equally tuned to 10man, would be far easier. But they never were, because of the obvious reasons I just mentioned above. So it was on a boss-by-boss basis.

Personally, I'd love for them to bring 10m Mythic back. It's difficult for guilds to keep 20 people who are actually decent enough to push content without having to carry people who shouldn't be there. Too many guilds around, and that used to be fine with half the raid size, but right now everyone is recruiting and it's actually the recruits who get to pick guilds these days rather than the other way around. It went from "I better do well and not be toxic else I'll lose my spot" to "I'll do what I want, these cunts have to cancel the raid if I don't show up".

[Kosez]

Why does it matter how many guilds are competing for the top spot? Honest question. Personally, I think it's more sad that only a small percentage of the player-base can actually play at this level.

Because it makes things more interesting if you have a bigger competition for top spots than 1 guild..

[Low Hanging Fruit]

When the game had 12 million subs, u called raiders 1%. Now the game ( according to some forum experts ) is down to 2 million subs, and still raiders are 1%?

Talking about spinning.

Maybe you should also figure this out. I am apart of that 1%. So this isn't me calling or against anyone. That is your personal stupidity in making such pointless asumptions. I understand that stupidity is all you have to work with, and that is why I forgive your ignorance. But it is important when someone talks about spinning when that don't know what the fuck they are talking about to even conclude what is spun.

I look forward to cucking you again if you want to dance on my strings again.
Infracted

[Kazuchika]

Maybe you should also figure this out. I am apart of that 1%. So this isn't me calling or against anyone. That is your personal stupidity in making such pointless asumptions. I understand that stupidity is all you have to work with, and that is why I forgive your ignorance. But it is important when someone talks about spinning when that don't know what the fuck they are talking about to even conclude what is spun.

I look forward to cucking you again if you want to dance on my strings again.

Imagine actually talking like this in real life and having any friends whatsoever

[Alydael]

Fact: some encounters were harder on 10 man and some were harder on 25.
Fact: 1 person dies in 10 man the boss can still die. 1 person dies in 25 man and the raid can't meet enrage timer/healing requirements. This was 1 of the biggest arguments of the time. Again, this is on a fight to fight basis and doesn't hold true on all encounters.
Fact: you're completely assuming "most great players" don't want to raid in 20/25 man groups. Most high end progression guilds during the 10/25 days stayed at a higher roster and most guilds prior to the 10/25 being equal days couldn't clear content until the days of 10 person raiding. Either way, your arguement here is subjective at best.
Added fact: it's easier to balance raid encounters on a fixed size. Back when 10/25 were separate and now at a 20 mythic there has been no complaining about disparities in what is easier. They are designed with a difficulty curve that's based on flat design. As stated, even when 10 and 25 raid sizes offered different loot tables, there was no complaining as to what was easier or harder because they were separate.
How is guild health skewed for someone in a guild that didn't fall apart? If a guild can't stay together while getting more people to play with then it does show guild problems, plain and simple.

It's true.

If you played back in WOTLK, Sarth 3d (10 man) was considered the premiere fight of the first tier of raids, and it was much harder than 25 man Sarth 3D.

It just also happened in this recent tier. Star Augur needed to be rebalanced for the smaller raids because it became more difficult the less you had.

When they had 10/25 split, my guild used to run two 10 man teams because we liked the "feel" of the smaller size. There is less room for error, less room for someone to be carried. Everyone has to do their job and execute.

[Deleted]

mythic scene going up and the rest of the game getting cucked. You should look into the Republican party they need people like you to spin how the world is dying into a happy fun time. But hey.. the 1% is doing great.

Oh so I prove you wrong that mythic raiding is reviving and not ending, like you said, and you come up with that.

[clevin]

I did actually.

But thanks for your concern.

VERY unlikely given that less than 1% did Naxx in any meaningful way (more than the first couple of bosses). Even if YOU did, virtually no one else did. Most off the people whining about rehash never cleared Naxx and a lot of them never set foot in it. When the VAST majority of raiders in vanilla never cleared Naxx 1 it doesn't MATTER that some of you did. For virtually every raider in LK, Naxx was a new raid that they'd never seen.

[Osmeric]

Oh so I prove you wrong that mythic raiding is reviving and not ending, like you said, and you come up with that.

The first few bosses in each of the M raids so far this expansion have been about as difficult, if not easier, than the hardest boss in H.

So it's not surprising if some H guilds dabble in M and get a few bosses down. I doubt many of them are going to progress in M or persist in M after H is done, though.

[A Chozo]

Nah blizz just needs tu put more pixel rewards in the last boss' loot chest. Sure it's nothing about how friggin' tedious is managing rosters and grinding gear just so you can defeat a video game challenge that rests not on the mechanic, but on the grind needed to beat the artificial challenge that is the excessive damage. Seriously, stretched the time needed to beat those bosses by imposing inflated numbers on the enemies, making people farm the raid until they have enough gear. Playtime expanded, fun diminished. Top end players have aaaaal the fingers and skills to beat this game, but they gotta work that iLvL first!

Imagine actually talking like this in real life and having any friends whatsoever

Thank God real life has almost zero tolerance to shit talkers. People would be punched / forcefully removed from the building and laughed at if they talked like that!

[Grobovshik]

Siegecrafter easy on 10 HC,

Actually it wasnt. Overgeared 4/4 zerg doesnt count.

[Eapoe]

10man was generally tuned easier (duh), but 25man had it easier in terms of mistake scaling, i.e. 1 person dies is far LESS impact on 25man than on 10man (1/25th vs 1/10th overall -
1/6th your raid's DPS vs 1/18th, or half the healers vs a fifth, etc) and in 25man you have far more raid cooldowns/variety than in 10man which was my biggest issue with it, simply not having enough raid cooldowns to cover a bosses mechanics.

25man, if equally tuned to 10man, would be far easier. But they never were, because of the obvious reasons I just mentioned above. So it was on a boss-by-boss basis.

Personally, I'd love for them to bring 10m Mythic back. It's difficult for guilds to keep 20 people who are actually decent enough to push content without having to carry people who shouldn't be there. Too many guilds around, and that used to be fine with half the raid size, but right now everyone is recruiting and it's actually the recruits who get to pick guilds these days rather than the other way around. It went from "I better do well and not be toxic else I'll lose my spot" to "I'll do what I want, these cunts have to cancel the raid if I don't show up".

Let's talk about mistake scaling. Generally, in a 10 man raid, it took 1 person to handle a mechanic. Stand in spot X, MAYBE use a CD, rinse/repeat. 25 man=send 4-6 people into the same spot, use a healer CD and frantically try to keep them alive, rinse/repeat.
Most 10 man raids didn't even require much in the way of raid CD's (even talked about in blue posts or interviews) because they had to tune the raid in a way that wouldn't include those to keep people from being forced into having a certain class. In 25 man raid sizes it was completely different because it was far more likely that every class would be present.
As far as your last point, my experience is quite different. Current guild I'm in has an active roster of 31+ people that all compete for those raid spots. This is also a progression oriented guild and has had mythic NH on farm for roughly 5-6 weeks now. Those people HAVE to play well or they are on the bench. There's always been issues with people guild hopping. Hell, check any forum talking about Classic WoW and it's been brought up time and time again.

[Marrilaife]

Why does it matter how many guilds are competing for the top spot? Honest question.

It would matter more if you could watch their competition, I mean would you watch football championship if you knew beforehand which team is gonna win? Not so fun.

I used to watch League of Legends world championship until I realized the same Korean team is winning year after year, so it became boring, and I stopped watching / following it.

The only difference in wow is you can't watch the race / progression because no one is showing it. So at best you can be cheerleading at a team you can't even watch play. Some people still enjoy "rooting" for a team though.

[alturic]

It would matter more if you could watch their competition, I mean would you watch football championship if you knew beforehand which team is gonna win? Not so fun.

I used to watch League of Legends world championship until I realized the same Korean team is winning year after year, so it became boring, and I stopped watching / following it.

The only difference in wow is you can't watch the race / progression because no one is showing it. So at best you can be cheerleading at a team you can't even watch play. Some people still enjoy "rooting" for a team though.

I guess I see your point. I never understood people who watched eSports though, ha.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Oh so I prove you wrong that mythic raiding is reviving and not ending, like you said, and you come up with that.

Proved you are on the short bus.
Infracted;
Also man enough to report people out doing you in a conversation so you can reply without a rebuttal. Tough guy.

[Krille]

Proved you are on the short bus.

Also man enough to report people out doing you in a conversation so you can reply without a rebuttal. Tough guy.

Believing every discussion needs to be a competition is what's wrong with this world. Grow up.

[Jazzhands]

I guess I see your point. I never understood people who watched eSports though, ha.

It's not much different than the millions of people who watch regular sports. The biggest thing I notice is that people who watch eSports do so to improve their own game play, and most people who watch sports are just sitting on a couch drinking beer and eating chicken wings.

[Akka]

You must be thinking of a specific expansion or something. WotLK/Cata was not like that at all.

WotLK definitely was. The 10 man was a vastly easier raid than the 25, save for a select few fights (like the famous Sarth3D).

- - - Updated - - -

10man was generally tuned easier (duh), but 25man had it easier in terms of mistake scaling, i.e. 1 person dies is far LESS impact on 25man than on 10man (1/25th vs 1/10th overall -
1/6th your raid's DPS vs 1/18th, or half the healers vs a fifth, etc) and in 25man you have far more raid cooldowns/variety than in 10man which was my biggest issue with it, simply not having enough raid cooldowns to cover a bosses mechanics.

That's half the story.
The other half is that with 25 people, the fight is much more crowded, so many errors have much larger effect (remember the defile on the Lich King ?).
Also, with more people, you've more risk to fuck up.

[Trapped]

I think you reversed the raid sizes?

Thats what I was thinking. If one person dies in 10-man, thats 10% of your raid team. One person dies in 25-man, thats 4% of your raid team.

- - - Updated - - -

It's true.

If you played back in WOTLK, Sarth 3d (10 man) was considered the premiere fight of the first tier of raids, and it was much harder than 25 man Sarth 3D.

It just also happened in this recent tier. Star Augur needed to be rebalanced for the smaller raids because it became more difficult the less you had.

When they had 10/25 split, my guild used to run two 10 man teams because we liked the "feel" of the smaller size. There is less room for error, less room for someone to be carried. Everyone has to do their job and execute.

Yes, exactly. I was even fine with 25-man getting a 1/2 tier higher ilevel gear to drop. People want 10-man raiding, whether people want to believe it or not. Restricting the highest difficulty of raiding in the game to a fixed roster size of 20 people is a step backwards, and if there aren't any changes to that in the next expansion, I'm not even going to buy it.

[BrioWoW]

Word around the water cooler is Limit has gathered up the needed accounts and should be good for WF. It's over before it even started ROFL