So is BrMs getting nerfed next patch?

[Deleted]

With mastery also procing on Blackout Strike and Breath of Fire, we will see a big increase of dodges. And can be stacked to avoid certain abilities.

[Grobovshik]

What I looked DH got buffs to it's damage. T19 4pc will make it quite good for Tomb because of the AA damage abundance. But I guess many will do the mistake of ditching it for ilvl/new set and find themselves eating dirt when DS drops. Being that reliant on old set is quite disturbing.

We lost 10% stagger if you ditch set (hint: you don't have to if surviving is your problem). So we are only 4x better than everybody else for burst damage instead of 5x. Getting bursted down won't happen even if relative increase in direct damage taken seems high. Doubling almost nothing is still almost nothing. It only changes how low hp% we can stay safely. And T20 gives you opportunity to control that quite well.

Meanwhile we have ~70% avoidance against bosses thanks to Elusive Brawler ability procs. And the potential is higher if bosses cast stuff between attacks. Our overall damage taken (which has been our only weakness) goes down drastically.

We are going to be great for tomb.

AA is nothing its not TBC/WoTLK

[Deleted]

The day 7.2.5 drops, would you say mage tower gets easier or harder for us?

[Gorsameth]

AA is nothing its not TBC/WoTLK

Mythic Gul'dan's AA damage is not nothing.
Its not imminently dangerous but getting meleed for 2.5 mil certainly adds up

[Discordiansz]

The day 7.2.5 drops, would you say mage tower gets easier or harder for us?

since most of the dmg from the mage tower challenge is magic dmg (fire/shadow/arcane) and the reduc in stagger its not gonna change much form the current state for bm monks

[enak101]

Not sure how Brewmaster escaped nerfs so well with the treatment Guardian received. 4% flat DR from hot blooded and 5% stagger loss is a bit but considering the armor and dodge buffs in a more physical (at least compared to NH) raid and it doesn't mean a whole lot.

I actually think one of the biggest nerfs is the new 3x base duration cap on ISB. There was plenty of situations on prog where I was able to take advantage of having huge ISB stacked up and not worrying about ISB at all while I was under heavy damage which was one of the most insane OP parts of nighthold brewmaster.

I mean in theory it sounds fine to just throw in a few ISB whenever to keep it rolling and you aren't actually spending more brew charges but I think more realistically in practice it just reduces (you can argue how much it matters) the flexibility of brewmaster to different damage patterns and definitely weakens you against certain fights/mechanics (I can't comment on exact Tomb mechanics but if you think of stuff like botanist p3 where a tank has so buckle down and survive some big damage as long as possible, brew is now MUCH weaker since they have to maintain ISB instead of ONLY purifying).

Right now they are definitely looking to be the top tier tank though, especially with a nice t20 set bonus and remaining largely unchanged with the strong progression tool of stagger. I wouldn't be shocked if they were "tuned" before the release of mythic tomb and nerfed a bit more though. Theres plenty of ways they could nerf brew in an acceptable manner (tho they didn't seem aware of this when discussing initial 7.2.5 changes), less HP, less brewgen, less stagger, smaller purifies.

Should be interesting to see how it plays out, I'm just happy everything else is much more balanced (DH still seems in a rough spot tho :/)

[ReD-EyeD]

Do not underestimate losing 10% of stagger (5% ISB nerf and 5% t19), losing insane amount of brew reduction through t19p4, smaller purify, 30% less BoS (which hinders BoC A LOT) and armor buff doing almost nothing.

Brewmasters are still going to be good tanks, but the nerfs are serious.

[keqe]

AA is nothing its not TBC/WoTLK

There is literally nothing but AA that can kill a monk. AA is what makes your stagger make you go low HP where you might die to something.

If you go full meme tier response "hur only bursts kill tanks". Even with 75% stagger we have best burst reduction of all tanks. We best because nothing else matters?

- - - Updated - - -

Do not underestimate losing 10% of stagger (5% ISB nerf and 5% t19), losing insane amount of brew reduction through t19p4, smaller purify, 30% less BoS (which hinders BoC A LOT) and armor buff doing almost nothing.

Brewmasters are still going to be good tanks, but the nerfs are serious.

10% stagger isn't insane. Yeah you can take your calculator and see "omg we take 66% more damage up front!!!??!?!?". But it's relative increase. What we took was nothing. 66% more than nothing is still almost nothing. It wont make us explode.

T19 brew generation isn't "insane" as some people here have calculated. It's great but so is T20 2p for our gameplay style in tomb.

How we do 30% less BoS? Only in bloodlust we lose them because we can't BoS every second global.

Did you do the "bad" rotation of Keg smash-BoF-BoS-TP-BoS-TP? With less than 25% haste?

The same result you get by doing Keg Smash-BoS-TP-BoF-BoS-TP and then waiting depending on your haste.

The latter rotation is more safe for lag and downtime as you have a buffer between those 6 global streaks. (until 33.4% haste where the buffer is no more).

And if you use 14% haste you can fit Exploding Keg to that empty global instead of replacing something else with it.


I don't see how 3s BoS reduces the amount of BoS we do outside of bloodlust.



Purify nerf is small. You won't almost notice. And armor buff might be almost nothing. But our dodge% increase on bosses will help much more than that armor will.

[vsb]

Not sure how Brewmaster escaped nerfs so well with the treatment Guardian received. 4% flat DR from hot blooded and 5% stagger loss is a bit but considering the armor and dodge buffs in a more physical (at least compared to NH) raid and it doesn't mean a whole lot.

It's 7% if you used proper relics. Armor buff is tiny, dodge buff is extremely tiny and there's much more than 5% stagger lost. So the nerf is substantial.

[keqe]

dodge buff is extremely tiny

It isn't. Our overall damage taken is going way down which has been our only weakness and still will be.

You can still tank more desolates on Avatar than other tanks with 75% stagger.

[dcc626]

It isn't. Our overall damage taken is going way down which has been our only weakness and still will be.

You can still tank more desolates on Avatar than other tanks with 75% stagger.

and t20 is really good. really good.

[Tech614]

The day 7.2.5 drops, would you say mage tower gets easier or harder for us?

50% increased damage on Nizauo so far easier...

The new legendary shoulders if you get them, will also make it a flat out joke.

[Alvito]

Brewmasters were getting too close to bear druids. Blizz can't be having that.

Don't you worry yourself bears got some big ole nerfs too.

[Tech614]

Don't you worry yourself bears got some big ole nerfs too.

Bears are firmly middle of the pack now. Brewmasters are probably best progression tank by default if they avoid anymore nerfs.

[Deleted]

No bears still top 3 on ptr, even without MoU, passive mit. still high 23% dmg reduc. without proc. Bears will be not the only choice for progress, that's the big difference.

[vsb]

It isn't. Our overall damage taken is going way down which has been our only weakness and still will be.

Do you have the math? I doubt that this change will bring more than a fraction of percent of incoming damage, of course I may be wrong.

[keqe]

Do you have the math? I doubt that this change will bring more than a fraction of percent of incoming damage, of course I may be wrong.

Going from ~42% avoidance to ~70% avoidance is equal to ~52% damage reduction.

"fraction of a percent" is an understatement of the century.

[SupBrah]

Don't you worry yourself bears got some big ole nerfs too.

Ehh, not really.

Mark of Ursol was removed, but bears still have tons of cooldowns, and magic damage is nowhere near as big an issue in ToS like it was in NH.

Bears will still be gods among men. They'll just have one less mitigation tool (which, unless they're a mythic raider, they probably forgot they had) on they keybinds to worry about.

[Inuyaki]

Ehh, not really.

Mark of Ursol was removed, but bears still have tons of cooldowns, and magic damage is nowhere near as big an issue in ToS like it was in NH.

Bears will still be gods among men. They'll just have one less mitigation tool (which, unless they're a mythic raider, they probably forgot they had) on they keybinds to worry about.

1) I guess you never played bear in mythic? Because you underestimate MoU by A LOT!
2) IF gets nerfed (again, which has to be because armor on gear increases... but so does for other tanks, they reduce now more while bears are somewhat equal to before)
3) There rage gen gets hampered AGAIN (which they maybe don't need that much anymore without MoU now :P )
4) FR got a little nerf, too... which will add up over a fight

[Saverem]

Do not underestimate losing 10% of stagger (5% ISB nerf and 5% t19), losing insane amount of brew reduction through t19p4, smaller purify, 30% less BoS (which hinders BoC A LOT) and armor buff doing almost nothing.

Brewmasters are still going to be good tanks, but the nerfs are serious.

I don't count the 5% stagger loss from set bonus as a nerf. It's just a shifting of tier set abilities. If you're going to count losing T19 set bonus as a nerf, then you'll also have to count the gaining of T20 set bonus as a buff. The T20 bonus is looking pretty good, so I don't mind the shift.

- - - Updated - - -

Bears are firmly middle of the pack now. Brewmasters are probably best progression tank by default if they avoid anymore nerfs.

Bears are still at the top even after the nerfs. Removing MoU doesn't really change much as their magic mitigation is still pretty good, and removing MoU also means that the 45 rage that would have gone into it could be invested in other abilities.

Not to mention, ToS looks to have much less magic damage than NH. So on that alone, it sort of makes MoU a non-issue for this raid tier.