Disc for the next exp.

[anon5123]

If you dont play the spec on any half-relevant setting you cannot judge it in its entirety

I've been playing it since Legion released, in all Heroi-

if you only experience and care for pugging heroic at the very best

....oh, so you're one of those "everything below mythic is trivial" people.

Wew.

Nothing further to discuss here. To the ignore list you go!

[Popokolara]

I've been playing it since Legion released, in all Heroi-



....oh, so you're one of those "everything below mythic is trivial" people.

Wew.

Nothing further to discuss here. To the ignore list you go!

"your arguments have to do with the bigger picture. i care for 1. my own personal little part of the world and 2. how it is judged by the most ignorant, imature and invalid judges. Improving my self to actually win them over is out of the question - this is not about what the spec does! Its about what it does for ME so i DONT have to actually change anything."


It can do fine in non mythic enviroment. It has been proven and if you actually researched it you would know it has been happening realiably.

but caring so much that pug leaders believe their urban legends, AND not play the proper way to open their eyes by force, but complain all the same. That my friend is trully the epitome of foolishness.

[MendUS]

I've been playing it since Legion released, in all Heroi-



....oh, so you're one of those "everything below mythic is trivial" people.

Wew.

Nothing further to discuss here. To the ignore list you go!

Normal / Heroic performance is irrelevant.

You ignore the fact that below Mythic, damage output goes down drastically. Discipline has an issue where it heals in bursts, and when people end up being topped off sooner (because less damage in the first place), you end up with more over healing. Also in Normal / Heroic content, raid sizes vary. Discipline struggles more then it did before with raids over 20 (if you don't have Velens) because you can only heal ~18-20 people max. Other healers scale better than Disc does in easier content.

Also, classes are tuned around Mythic difficulty, so saying that somehow Normal / Heroic performance is relevant is kind of silly, especially for healers since our limiting factor is missing HP. You also mention disc is more demanding but performs worse than other healers... not sure where you get this information since Discipline can out perform most other healers on a majority of encounters in ToS (any encounter where the raid takes damage, Discipline is on top).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2052

Feel free to chose w/e boss you want, whatever percentile you want. As to your reference to PUG's, it's more likely you'll out perform other healers in that scenario if you're a good Discipline Priest, more than you would being in a coordinated guild raid with not potato healers healing with you.

I don't know if you just like arguing or what, but you're wrong.

[Nurasu]

The bottom line is that Blizzard is never going back to the untargeted/auto healing atonement. There simply is no other model than what we have now in order to do that. With Disc's current HPS plus its damage, it's the best spec in a lot of situations. More work actually does equal more reward right now.

[MendUS]

The bottom line is that Blizzard is never going back to the untargeted/auto healing atonement. There simply is no other model than what we have now in order to do that. With Disc's current HPS plus its damage, it's the best spec in a lot of situations. More work actually does equal more reward right now.

Couldn't have worded it better myself.

[anon5123]

With Disc's current HPS plus its damage, it's the best spec in a lot of situations.

Damage is rather negligible, and how is it the "best spec" ? It does less HPS than the other healers, and has to work twice as much just to get that less hps.

More work actually does equal more reward right now.

I do way more HPS as Holy for much less effort.

/shrug

[MendUS]

Damage is rather negligible, and how is it the "best spec" ? It does less HPS than the other healers, and has to work twice as much just to get that less hps.



I do way more HPS as Holy for much less effort.

/shrug

I don't think anyone was saying the DPS was the reason to play it, but doing 300k dps when other healers are doing 50k dps while doing equal or more healing is an added bonus, regardless how little the DPS is in the grand scheme of things (it's actually not that negligible but I digress).

So because you do better at playing Holy than Disc, that must mean everyone else must also be that way, right? It seems to me that you're projecting your lack of ability to play the spec properly on everyone else who plays it, disregarding all facts and input from people who can play it properly and have proven that it is an ideal healer in Tomb of Sargeras for almost all encounters. Why do you think nearly every top guild is running a Disc Priest right now for progression? It's probably because it's so hard and still subpar, right?

[laplacedemon]

Damage is rather negligible, and how is it the "best spec" ? It does less HPS than the other healers, and has to work twice as much just to get that less hps.

I do way more HPS as Holy for much less effort.

Damage isn't really negligible but that aside, you need to differentiate between you doing less hps as disc than other healers and disc in general doing less hps than other healers. You might be simply better at holy than disc. And you might even do more hps as resto druid for even less effort, that doesn't mean holy is flawed.

I'd kinda get your argument if we were talking about disc in last patch/es, but this is the most balanced state disc has been in for years.

[Supliftz]

"proactive healer" is a neat idea on paper, but in execution, it's clunky and demanding to play, outside of highly coordinated groups.

This is why 2 healer specs in the priest spec exists. If you don't want to play a demanding spec that requires you proactively apply atonements before damage, hit n and click on holy. Proactive gameplay has been the cornerstone of disc priest since MoP anyway.

[Nurasu]

Damage is rather negligible, and how is it the "best spec" ? It does less HPS than the other healers, and has to work twice as much just to get that less hps.



I do way more HPS as Holy for much less effort.

/shrug

First of all, its damage is not negligible when compared to any other healer. Second, I'm not sure where you're coming up with "it has to work twice as hard". We're all pushing buttons, we're all watching boss timers, we're all managing HoTs or other buffs, and we're all healing. So you have to have a little foresight for Disc, I don't think that drastically increases the "work" you have to do. And as already pointed out, Disc is pulling top tier HPS at the moment, along with the added damage.

But back to the basis of the last several posts, there is no other option for atonement healing. They can continue to smooth some things out, but the mechanic of having to atone someone before you can heal is not fundamentally flawed as some might suggest and is in fact working very well right now.

[Supliftz]

side note. i think it's rather cute that people still claim disc priest damage is irrelevant, but disc priest was played over other healers in the world first race (you know, the thing everyone cares about) for the dps the spec provides ; ) ) ) )) ) )

[anon5123]

you need to differentiate between you doing less hps as disc than other healers and disc in general doing less hps than other healers..

I'm usually #1 or #2 regardless of spec, that's not what I was talking about.

First of all, its damage is not negligible when compared to any other healer.

Unless you're pushing against an enrage timer, the damage is not really particularly useful, seeing as you do less than a tank.

Second, I'm not sure where you're coming up with "it has to work twice as hard".

Disc has to manage Atonement; that in itself is pretty intensive compared to other healers. Especially with things like how PWR only gives half-duration Atonements, and Evangelism, and such. It's like a mini-game you have to juggle amidst your regular healing. And if you don't hit your Atonements on just the right people, your healing suffers.

Whereas the other healers just cast their heals and that's it, not much else required. No intense pre-planning, no careful target selection, no having to constantly refresh buffs on people, etc.

I like the idea of Disc, but it's just so much more work for less HPS.

[Nurasu]

I'm usually #1 or #2 regardless of spec, that's not what I was talking about.


Unless you're pushing against an enrage timer, the damage is not really particularly useful, seeing as you do less than a tank.

This implies that DPS can do whatever they want as long as the boss dies before enrage.

Disc has to manage Atonement; that in itself is pretty intensive compared to other healers. Especially with things like how PWR only gives half-duration Atonements, and Evangelism, and such.

It's no different than Resto Druids keeping their HoTs rolling on the people they need them on at the time and refreshing them with I forget the name...? during longer or higher damage periods.

Whereas the other healers just cast their heals and that's it, not much else required. No intense pre-planning, no careful target selection, no having to constantly refresh buffs on people, etc.

Do you not carefully select your Serenity target? Or plan your Apotheosis? Do Druids not constantly refresh HoTs on people? Idk. I agree it takes more management, but I don't agree that it's an exorbitant amount.

I like the idea of Disc, but it's just so much more work for less HPS.

Not only do I disagree with this, it's flatly false.

[anon5123]

This implies that DPS can do whatever they want as long as the boss dies before enrage.

It's DPS' main job to do damage

It's not Disc's main job to do damage

bit of a difference there

It's no different than Resto Druids keeping their HoTs rolling on the people

Except the HoTs actually do healing, Atonement by itself does not. You have to waste time applying Atonements, doing very little healing while you are. Druid is still doing full healing while they apply their HoTs.

Very different.

Do you not carefully select your Serenity target? Or plan your Apotheosis?

Uh...no, you don't have to "carefully" select a target for Serenity, you just use it on whoever needs it.

And Apotheosis isn't used in raids.

Not only do I disagree with this, it's flatly false.

ok

I consistently pull 150k+ more HPS with Holy, than Disc, despite only ~3 ilvl difference.

not sure how that's flatly false

[MendUS]

I consistently pull 150k+ more HPS with Holy, than Disc, despite only ~3 ilvl difference.

not sure how that's flatly false

Erm... probably because you're better at holy than you are at Disc?

[Razion]

I like current Disc that deals damage to heal. It's the only thing really interesting to me at the moment.
I think to make it more accessible to everyone though, it could do with maybe having Divine Star and Halo applying atonement.

[MendUS]

I think to make it more accessible to everyone though, it could do with maybe having Divine Star and Halo applying atonement.

[Nurasu]

It's DPS' main job to do damage

It's not Disc's main job to do damage

bit of a difference there



Except the HoTs actually do healing, Atonement by itself does not. You have to waste time applying Atonements, doing very little healing while you are. Druid is still doing full healing while they apply their HoTs.

Very different.


Uh...no, you don't have to "carefully" select a target for Serenity, you just use it on whoever needs it.

And Apotheosis isn't used in raids.




ok

I consistently pull 150k+ more HPS with Holy, than Disc, despite only ~3 ilvl difference.

not sure how that's flatly false

You can't make the argument that "this" damage is more helpful than "that" damage. It just doesn't work. Disc provides extra damage that you wouldn't otherwise have. Also, HoTs initially do very little healing - it's far more over the total duration. Atonement is no different. You have incredibly strong reactive healing through SM if you end up needing it, and then it continues to heal from the atonement buff. You got me on Apotheosis

- - - Updated - - -

Hush, that's my favorite 50 page argument! xD

[worcester]

Except the HoTs actually do healing, Atonement by itself does not. You have to waste time applying Atonements, doing very little healing while you are. Druid is still doing full healing while they apply their HoTs.

I have to disagree with this. Both healers can preemptively apply hots/atonement for incoming damage. For reactive healing, atonement is delayed initially but provides its entire healing way before hots can tick their full duration. Not to mention this patch greatly improved the delay in reactionary healing for disc and anything more necessary means a failure in proactively applying atonement.

That being said, after thinking about your argument it does raise the question to the "value" of disc heals, and whether they are life saving like druids/shamans' heals or simply just raw healing on targets who happen to have atonement at the time. But given that disc has so much raw throughput now, I think it might not even be a big concern.

[Popokolara]

I thought that apart from pally st shock goodnes, we are the general king of burst and valuable healing that isnt some constant healing on low to medium damage that wouldnt be threatening in a thousand years.