Why are monks so underrepresented in high M+

[Winded]

WW is great in Mythic +. We don't work in every comp, but in the right comp we can do great things. I usually run with a blood DK, holy Priest, and two Affliction Locks. We make up for each others short comings. I grant the DK and Locks movement speed, and they grant me battle rez.

In all seriousness though, Monks are fine, you just take the least played class, remove all the not serious alts, and you are just left with a smaller pool than all other classes.

[dirtybrew]

Karma is pretty shitty. Problem is that it doesn't scale. When your running high level stuff a flat damage reduction or immunity is way better than a 50% health absorb that gets chewed through so easily. Fortifying brew should be baseline tbh.

[Gob]

MW has no strong healing CDs no strong instant burst healing, no damage reduction CDs and low survivability. It's still Ok but rdruid/hpal do it better.

MW has crazy strong burst healing, to a fault. GoS makes Spear of Anguish on Desolate Host a non-issue. Velen's Future Sight + Revival is huge raid CD. Life Cocoon with the traits to make it also apply Enveloping Mist is very strong.

[Felixphaeton]

Lol, GoS is way too slow to deal with any burst damage in high M+, we have no strong on the move healing unless we pop TFT, and our big single target heal is a long cast and a 6 second HoT...We just don't have the tools that druids or pallies have to deal with high M+

[Deleted]

MW has crazy strong burst healing, to a fault. GoS makes Spear of Anguish on Desolate Host a non-issue. Velen's Future Sight + Revival is huge raid CD. Life Cocoon with the traits to make it also apply Enveloping Mist is very strong.

MW single target healing outside of TFT is way too slow and conditional. Revival is barely even noticeable compared to actual huge raid CDs (Disc and Aura of Sacrifice), but that applies to all raid CDs and is irrelevant in M+. Life Cocoon as a better Lay on Hands does get underrated, but it's on much too long of a cooldown to make a difference when the rest of the kit is just absolute garbage for dungeons.

[Morgaith]

It's a melee class that doesn't have the immunities of a rogue/dk or the dmg of an arms warrior, that's all.

[Mokuna]

Brms have really insane damage in mythic+ with shoulders and chest, they're pretty hard to kill and they've good tools like the statue or the ability to kite, but they need to be healed quite a lot compared to other tanks, which is their major flaws
Most groups run a blood dk just because of the leech aura that heals your team so much with a 45 seconds cd only

Also there aren't that many good brewmasters so the population "good brewmaster" x "interested in really high M+" is really small, it's also way easier to do well on a blood dk if you just picked it up because it's way more straight forward

[Deleted]

also playing tanks without a battle res when tanks with battle res are good is like ... why?

[ErothTV]

also playing tanks without a battle res when tanks with battle res are good is like ... why?

U can have another class with rezz tho?

[Felixphaeton]

Having more brezzes is never bad. There's no limit to how many you can use per fight in M+.

[antico]

answer is really simple - utility, brewmasters may brag about their damage or not dying, but DKs who are the most prevalent, have relative DPS output AND a mass grip AND a battle rez, windwalker have 0 utility (I'm sorry but the 10% movement speed with 10 yard radius isn't a utility, it's a flavor) only raw damage and there are classes that just put out bigger numbers given the same gear and circumstances, and mistweavers, again same thing, their raw HPS maybe compared to other healers, but their big CDs and external are lackluster in comparison to some other healing classes

you dont steamroll a +20, no amount of currently available DPS will turn it into a random heroic, you have to outsmart the dungeon, and there are better classes to cheese than monks

[Caus]

Lol, GoS is way too slow to deal with any burst damage in high M+, we have no strong on the move healing unless we pop TFT, and our big single target heal is a long cast and a 6 second HoT...We just don't have the tools that druids or pallies have to deal with high M+

So, what class are you arguing have strong healing while moving? or are you referring to tranquility, hymn, sacrifice etc? In which case we have revival, which is instant as opposed to tranquility.

I just don't agree at all with your view on mistweaver. I think we have a fairly strong kit. U have fortifying brew, dampen harm/diffuse magic, and an on demand 13% dmgreduction whenever if you channel soothing. Or cocoon if it's an emergency.

You have an aoe slow by putting out your ghost, and a speed increase in tigers lust if you specs for it, and ring of peace or leg sweep to save someone with aggro.

You have a mastery that is an extra single-target heal on any heal you cast, your fucking insta single target HoT is a 350-400k instant heal, non-trivial and without font buff, where if it cries or have fontbuff is like 800k-1 million instant direct heal plus another million as hot over 24 seconds. TFT enveloping mist + renewing is even stronger.

Imo there's nothing wrong with MW, It just lacks players with creativity and a grasp on their toolkit.

[Caus]

Lol, GoS is way too slow to deal with any burst damage in high M+, we have no strong on the move healing unless we pop TFT, and our big single target heal is a long cast and a 6 second HoT...We just don't have the tools that druids or pallies have to deal with high M+

So, what class are you arguing have strong healing while moving? or are you referring to tranquility, hymn, sacrifice etc? In which case we have revival, which is instant as opposed to tranquility.

I just don't agree at all with your view on mistweaver. I think we have a fairly strong kit. U have fortifying brew, dampen harm/diffuse magic, and an on demand 13% dmgreduction whenever if you channel soothing. Or cocoon if it's an emergency.

You have an aoe slow by putting out your ghost, and a speed increase in tigers lust if you specs for it, and ring of peace or leg sweep to save someone with aggro.

You have a mastery that is an extra single-target heal on any heal you cast, your fucking insta single target HoT is a 350-400k instant heal, non-crit and without font buff, where if it cries or have fontbuff is like 800k-1 million+ (if any of the masteryheals crit) instant direct heal plus another million as hot over 24 seconds. TFT enveloping mist + renewing is even stronger.

Imo there's nothing wrong with MW, It just lacks players with creativity and a grasp on their toolkit.

[ReD-EyeD]

I just don't agree at all with your view on mistweaver. I think we have a fairly strong kit. U have fortifying brew, dampen harm/diffuse magic, and an on demand 13% dmgreduction whenever if you channel soothing. Or cocoon if it's an emergency.

You have an aoe slow by putting out your ghost, and a speed increase in tigers lust if you specs for it, and ring of peace or leg sweep to save someone with aggro.

You have a mastery that is an extra single-target heal on any heal you cast, your fucking insta single target HoT is a 350-400k instant heal, non-crit and without font buff, where if it cries or have fontbuff is like 800k-1 million+ (if any of the masteryheals crit) instant direct heal plus another million as hot over 24 seconds. TFT enveloping mist + renewing is even stronger.

Fortifying Brew and dampen harm/diffuse magic are useless in high m+. Well, useless is a strong word, they're rather irrelevant as they only affecting yourself and not tank/party.
Cocoon is just a healer's cooldown and it's subpar to other stuff like Pain Suppression or even more frequent Barkskin. Don't get me wrong it's still a good ability, but it's certainly not amazing.

As people already said (you included) there is nothing wrong with MW, but there is also nothing outstanding about it.
Being the least popular class overall certainly doesn't help with it's representation in high m+ too.

[Caus]

Fortifying Brew and dampen harm/diffuse magic are useless in high m+. Well, useless is a strong word, they're rather irrelevant as they only affecting yourself and not tank/party.
Cocoon is just a healer's cooldown and it's subpar to other stuff like Pain Suppression or even more frequent Barkskin. Don't get me wrong it's still a good ability, but it's certainly not amazing.

As people already said (you included) there is nothing wrong with MW, but there is also nothing outstanding about it.
Being the least popular class overall certainly doesn't help with it's representation in high m+ too.

Cocoon is a castable last-stand, which also increases healing taken by 30-40% depending on talent. If that doesn't save your tank, painsuppression or ironbark won't either. It's only fault is an excessive cd. But for high M+ keys, I expect my party to know their shit good enough to not be carried by the healer entirely. Monks has absurd bursthealing capacity to compensate. For trash atleast, you also have ring of peace, which essentially is an physical dmg immunity for your tank on short cd.

MW requires some thought to play well, and that's likely the only reason they're a rare sight.

[ReD-EyeD]

MW requires some thought to play well, and that's likely the only reason they're a rare sight.

Not sure if you're very overestimating MW complexity or greatly underestimating other healers.

[Caus]

More often than not, it's a matter of playerquality, not the complexity of the class. But MW is different in some regards.

[dirtybrew]

Yeah lack of utility is a problem plaguing the monk class.

[Deleted]

Ah so much fun!
Thats why i play now DH so much fun. I trully miss MOP WW!

Yeah man auto attacking and hitting chaos strike whenever you randomly get enough fury is sofast paced and fun.

[HeiAggra]

Yeah man auto attacking and hitting chaos strike whenever you randomly get enough fury is sofast paced and fun.

It's a simple spec but is fun class!