7.0: M+15 complete, 7.3: M+15 complete

[styil]

The Mythic+ system could quite possibly be the most terribly implemented WoW system of all time. We are over one year into this expansion, over 100 item levels higher than launch, doing many times more dps than launch, have fully fleshed out artifacts, yet we are still struggling on the same keystone levels as we were at launch.

It makes absolutely no sense. The scaling the HP of these dungeons has been inelegent, lazy and uninspired. And worst of all, it's demotivating to know that your progress is being stripped down every patch.

I really hope that the Mythic+ system is either completely revamped or better yet scrapped for 8.0. Because people are not going to stick around for another expansion of constant HP buffs to dungeons every patch just for the sake of buffing them.

[potis]

This is stupid.

The +Whatever is just a number, you follow the %, or is basic math too hard or something?

Or do you need to see "M+25" to feel poweful?

[styil]

This is stupid.

The +Whatever is just a number, you follow the %, or is basic math too hard or something?

Or do you need to see "M+25" to feel poweful?

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

[potis]

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

Its psychological and in your brain mostly.

If you dont see the difference in tryharding to kill a 90-110m boss 11 months ago, versus bursting down 250-300m bosses in Bloodlust 1 year after then i am not sure how powerful you wanna feel.

As i said, its just numbers and psychological.

They are just keeping the numbers non-stupid scaling, the same way everything in the game does, gear reset scaling proved people like that.

Most dont care to see "M+35, boss has 624.54545% extra health" compared to what we have now.

[Nize]

It would needlessly complicate things just adding more levels. Imagine having to push a +2 key up to +25 or +30 on a character that may have missed a few weeks. All it does is deter players from doing that. Keep it compact within 15 levels of rewards is just fine. Character progression is there when you see the gear you may get. M+0 is still there for you to faceroll through.

[Bombademar]

So you would be happier if we were doing m+60s right now? Seems kind of annoying to me to level up my keystone that high.

[Phinx]

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

But you get a higher item level from a 15 now than back in 15. A higher item level is literally character progression.

[Soluna]

Because then everyone and their mothers would have the KM achievement and cheapen even further the acquisition of the +15 balance of power skin tint. I mean, it was a joke to get it in 7.1.5 and 7.2.5, and it will be again in 7.3.5, but it would be 10 times easier if they just kept increasing the ilvl cap, without rebalancing the difficulties. Also, coming back to the game/or alts having to build up keys from +2 all the way to Keystone +48 sounds like it would suck ass really hard.

[Atreyes]

So you would be happier if we were doing m+60s right now? Seems kind of annoying to me to level up my keystone that high.

This is basically it I think, it makes it much easier

[kamuimac]

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

the alternative to it would be diluting playerbase over 40 or 50 dungeons diffuculties instead like 15 - which simply wouldnt work.

this system is working ok - if you dont like it - your loss i guess.

[Zeek Daniels]

Basically the OP wants to be OP and clear M+lvl 30's each week for 875 gear because you know thats fun for all the people who dont have keys to start their M+ loot level at 835 and have to run 10+ dungeons just to get ilvl 880 gear and then have to run 10 more to get 910 gear. Yea great system OP. Im so glad your in charge of game design and not the current folks over at blizzard.

[Etselion]

Stick to the daily heroic, OP.

[BiggestNoob]

The constant rebalancing is dumb, especially considering they want to focus on that and not on fixing affixes so they're not causing things like unavoidable 1-shots in dungeons where you have the DPS to -5 mins the timer making the timer completely fucking pointless.

[Deleted]

It's a form of character progression just like item level. Being able to complete higher level keys symbolises your character getting better and stronger. Struggling on the same keystone level as you did at launch feels like you haven't made any progress at all in the last 12 months.

What they're doing is equivalent to lowering everybody's item level to 800 every patch just to keep the dungeons relevant. Not fun.

In practice it's way harder to manage a good balance if you would have ongoing keystone levels. The current drop system (gear, legendaries, ap) and some other (replaced or new implemented) game mechanics would not be working properly with such an ongoing m+ scaling system. Furthermore most of the increased player power over the last year came off of the class and mechanic changes as well as set bonuses and trinkets whose power is not (fully) dependent on ilvls.

Just for comparisson: a 7.3 +20 equals a +34 back in 7.0. Much more interesting is the difficulty comparission of the 7.0 +10, which equals the current +0 difficulty. Yeah, the current m+0 is as hard as +10 back in 7.0 number-wise.

difficulty comparison sheet

The constant rebalancing is dumb, especially considering they want to focus on that and not on fixing affixes so they're not causing things like unavoidable 1-shots in dungeons where you have the DPS to -5 mins the timer making the timer completely fucking pointless.

This is a usual balancing issue which is not solvable. It equals the system in D3. Even with the best gear available specific classes have their own difficulty cap. If you have classes which have the defensives to survive mechanics at which 80% of all the other classes would die, its not an affix or boss mechanic issues, its an class balancing issue. But tbh the class balance in m+ content is fine actually (yeah, even dps warriors have weaknesses in m+ content).

[Cronovey]

the alternative to it would be diluting playerbase over 40 or 50 dungeons diffuculties instead like 15 - which simply wouldnt work.

this system is working ok - if you dont like it - your loss i guess.

This is one of the most important aspects of rebalancing the dungeons; trying to find groups ranging anywhere from a +3 on an alt to a +40 on your main is not only difficult but incredibly time consuming if you're forced to level a key from 9 or 10 all the way to 40 with only being able to climb a couple levels at a time. You'd spend 5 times the amount of time to get the same thing that you get right now from a current 15 just for the sake of seeing a bigger number on your keystone when in reality the only reason we're all running them is for the gear to begin with.

[Tinary]

The constant rebalancing is dumb, especially considering they want to focus on that and not on fixing affixes so they're not causing things like unavoidable 1-shots in dungeons where you have the DPS to -5 mins the timer making the timer completely fucking pointless.

What unavoidable oneshots?

[Deleted]

This is one of the most important aspects of rebalancing the dungeons; trying to find groups ranging anywhere from a +3 on an alt to a +40 on your main is not only difficult but incredibly time consuming if you're forced to level a key from 9 or 10 all the way to 40 with only being able to climb a couple levels at a time. You'd spend 5 times the amount of time to get the same thing that you get right now from a current 15 just for the sake of seeing a bigger number on your keystone when in reality the only reason we're all running them is for the gear to begin with.

nope, you could "easily" join a group in the finder, doing a +20ish (which is lower than +10 in 7.3) and grab your own +20ish key out of the chest in the following week. You dont need to push your own key from zero to whatever level.

[Deja Thoris]

What unavoidable oneshots?

EoA comes to mind.

[Deleted]

What unavoidable oneshots?

Skovald felblaze rush, EoA bomb from last boss and unavoidable AoE from hatecoil, Arcway Felguard boss, Spider from Arcway is almost a one shot if you dont have the right classes as well, First boss from BRH as well as the 3rd one and so on and so forth

[Tinary]

Skovald felblaze rush, EoA bomb from last boss and unavoidable AoE from hatecoil, Arcway Felguard boss, Spider from Arcway is almost a one shot if you dont have the right classes as well, First boss from BRH as well as the 3rd one and so on and so forth

I asked what affixes cause unavoidable oneshots, most of which you list are not oneshots and are not affixes.