So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[Vintersol]

Does anyone still think Blizzard will do something at this point before next expac (other than the obvious pre-expac patch)? If so, what would you expect from them?

I'll expect nothing anymore. It's the same thing every expac since cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Unless Blizzard pull a U-turn and give us back Exorcism, Hammer of Wrath, Speed of Light and Empowered Divine Storm then I'll probably be shelving my Paladin. I went through EN as Ret and it was fine. NH felt under-whelming because CoF got nerfed through the ground just for us, meanwhile Hunters were like "LOL LOOK AT MY TRUESHOT UPTIME". Okay.

They would honestly have to pull something BIG out of the hat for 8.0 to keep me as Ret. The spec has felt horrible throughout the whole of ToS and it's only bearable because of the T20 4P. Once BoW/DH goes back to being 2HP, you'll all hate it again.

Somehow our raid team has ended up with only two mail wearers and 7 plate wearers. Tempted to try Hunter. I've played Shaman. Elemental was my fave spec but it's always been treated like shit. Not too interested in Enhancement either. And the less said about me and healing, the better.

Yup, i'm dreading that myself. The fun of the spec is to throw those TV's out. With no extra HP generation in the last tier, the rotation is gonna suck. The insane buff to judgment won't make up for the lost TV's i don't think. Wich means they are gonna have to buff the damage of generators again. :/

[Vanderhuge]

At this point, Ret needs to move away from having both mana and Holy Power - similar to Balance Druids, because the double resource isn't fun or exciting. Dumping mana is a start, since all it's used for are weak heals and resurrections. Holy Power could really move away from being cheap combo points and be something exciting - losing Wake of Ashes/Ashes to Ashes is going to be a painful reminder of how clunky it feels. I make this assumption based on artifact weapons being "lost" - and replaced with customized artifact weapons in 8.0 (can get new appearances from achievements and such and colors from... here we go... the store). The real question is - what does Holy Power become? Ideally, I'd like to see something along these lines:

• Holy Power becomes a numerical resource - as in starting at 0 and scaling up to 50 or so.
• HP generated similar to today - CS grants a small amount on no cooldown, Judgment/BoW grant higher amounts with respective cooldowns, etc.
• HP is spent in chunks with finishers - TV/DS can have a cost of 25 or something similar. Allows back to back use if you store it for quick burst, or using as-is for sustained damage
• Mastery changed to alter how HP is gained, spent, or capped. Either have it improve generators, reduce the cost of TV/DS, or increase the HP cap (or some combination of these) - makes Mastery a viable stat that has massive impact on how the spec is played
• Examples of new talents: Crusade changed to grant passive HP during Avenging Wrath, Divine Purpose returns some fraction of HP spent, change third talent to Inquisition or similar (some of us really didn't mind it)

Speaking about that last point - our talents need to change how the spec is played to a greater degree - Ret has two rows of talents that can be summed up as "single target/kind of AoE/actual AoE" and "this crits hard/this is used more often/this is the AoE talent". Not only is it not fun, you're forced to give up single target for AoE at the talent level, which dictates how the spec is played for you, instead of dictating how you want to play the spec yourself.

[killwithpwr]

I wish i could be creative enough to think of an alternative to the shitfest Ret has been so far in Legion.

I will be reallly happy for the following:

- Blizzard should take the Retribution passive buff, and shove it down a hole so deep, even Therazane will fear going near it.

- No resurgance of temporal buffs you need to keep up arbitrarily to have decent damage (i. e. Seraphim/Inquisition)

- Understand why and how SoV is a stupid and unproductive spell, and refund some of our defensive /healing abilities (would love to see Sacred Shield come back)

- Rework the talent tree into a tree of possibility, as opposed to the tree of "pick this or you wasted a talent"

- Bring back Execution Sentance as it was in WoD...

- Finally... Let us have our beloved Hammer of Wrath back. It did nothing wrong.

[Deleted]

WoD been a pain as well relyin on a small window lke sera to unleash some damage stoppin everything 4-5 secs before to have generators ready for sera window. So again judge/buff same shit only duration changed the way ic it.
Not a big fun but anyways using generators to build resource to cast spenders during a buff window seems legit but the way implemented is a clusterfuck with generators sitting there waiting spenders clushing with gems for a spot in that buff window etcetcetc.
They cannot fix this ( I mean they have not fixed the bug where ypoyur initial judge can reward a hopo how about doing serious work).
Future: Fix the gameplay so that it makes sense. Give some better mobility. Somehow utilize mana for speed, offheal , group cds etc. Remove passive.
BRING BACK HAMMER OF WRATH

Some people like to say that it had too many procs and others that seraphim was a pain.
The fact was, neither one is true. You had a choice in WoD. I never used seraphim in HFC, the only raid where it was used by a fair ammount of people. The gain was minimum and mostly in ST. It was not worth the hassle of running it imo. FV though, i loved, because it made you weave the finishers when empowered.
Quite honestly it offered different and viable playstyles. There were alot of talents that were viable in different situations.

In Legion, it's just one rigid playstyle. You can only change your blade, CS or judgement to do slightly different things, but your playstyle is always the same.

Unless you run Highlord's. Wich is why i like it so much. It makes Ret bearable by introducing some reactiveness and change to the rotation, especially with the cape adding a layer of depth on how you use it in order to keep the buff going.

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Ok, to be a bit constructive here are some things i'd like to see.

First talent row revamped: FV (WoD iteration), ES (WoD iteration), Uther's Greater Divine storm (see HOTS, 30 sec or 1m CD AoE stun+damage)
Second row: soft HP generation increasing row: Fires of Justice, 3HP BoJ, Judgment reduces the next spender by X or by 1 Y times.
third row: can stay the same
forth row: Can stay the same but Blade of virtue replaced by some other interaction
firth row: Redesigned. JV goes baseline. Could replace with leggy effects here. Cape legendary effect, legendary ring effect, legendary shoulders effect
sixth row: Purge this s**t aswell. Cavalier baseline. We can leave this one for new experiments.
seventh row: Crusade baseline or removed and let's go with a tentative: DP, Sanctified wrath, Hammer of wrath(?)

Anyways that is just with a quick think. There is no deep thought going through this, but this would already be alot better.

[Lochton]

I don't really get this? Only until ToS HC that I've experienced my spec to be underperforming compared to the other classes.

[Deleted]

I don't really get this? Only until ToS HC that I've experienced my spec to be underperforming compared to the other classes.

I don't think this is about damage, but about playstyle options and flow.

[Lochton]

I don't think this is about damage, but about playstyle options and flow.

I do miss the use of holy power but it feels less clunky now in my opinion.

[Deleted]

I do miss the use of holy power but it feels less clunky now in my opinion.

How can you say that? We are dependant on haste for it to not have dead times. It's certainly clunkier. Though atm with t20 4x and some decent haste it flows much better. But, the base design is still pretty bad.

Like... remember how bad it was before we got some more talents on the artifact? I remember using DP with consecration and still having downtime. It was terrible.

We still have HP so i'm confused over what you mean.

[Lochton]

How can you say that? We are dependant on haste for it to not have dead times. It's certainly clunkier. Though atm with t20 4x and some decent haste it flows much better. But, the base design is still pretty bad.

Like... remember how bad it was before we got some more talents on the artifact? I remember using DP with consecration and still having downtime. It was terrible.

We still have HP so i'm confused over what you mean.

HP now is just a timer. Generates a ton and then vent. That is what I meant. Not much on the side. And well, didn't have haste problems until ToS HC...

[hellhamster]

Can any ret explain what the fuck happened here?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Deleted]

Can any ret explain what the fuck happened here?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

No idea what that log is. It only says heroic, doesn't say wich boss. Maybe a WQ raid mob? Not sure.

The fight lasted 2m40 seconds. So, just after the second crusade +pot ended. Lucky crits or some exploited mechanic? No idea.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I don't really get this? Only until ToS HC that I've experienced my spec to be underperforming compared to the other classes.

The spec itself is shite, both pvp and dragonslaying - wise.
There are no choices, no room to wiggle or have a different playstyle bar one revolving entirely around Crusade. Both talent trees are littered with shite dead useless idiotically fething awful talents we are hard-wired to WotA relics as far as relics go.
It's clunky, awful, boring and dull.
But hey, it's balanced and mediocre which is good.

[hellhamster]

No idea what that log is. It only says heroic, doesn't say wich boss. Maybe a WQ raid mob? Not sure.

The fight lasted 2m40 seconds. So, just after the second crusade +pot ended. Lucky crits or some exploited mechanic? No idea.

it's Goroth heroic.

[Kobor]

So the 12th of September Hotfix not saying anything about Retri, while lot of other classes got buffs, like Frost DK, WW Monks, how are same bottom line dps spec like us.
Either we will get a nice dps boost from pure Weapon item level increase or Blizz again neglecting us totally....

[Deleted]

We scale decently with weapon dps. It was just the crusade relics preventing us from doing it because they were so strong. In my current setup with cape and highlord, just the damage increase in TV is gonna be huge.

The attunement was to compensate classes that don't scale well with weapon DPS, as the WW's know very well. With that said... they are making baseline buffs to compensate for a different progression system. That will benefit those specs without the progression system. Dunno if it will reflect in pvp aswell.
Feels like a very knee-jerky way to solve the problem. The buffs should have been weaved with the progression system itself.

[Deleted]

So they buffed them now to compensate for a gain we gonna get in 3-4 weeks time when we manage to grind the AP needed or am I missing something? Myust be like the blessing trait buff , took me a tier and a half to start feeling the positive effects..

[xezar]

What's my prediction for 8.0? Me dropping Ret for my DH likely, possibly rogue. I regret intensely choosing to main this spec as a favor to my GM for legion because the guild lacked a ret pally for 2 weak as hell blessings (yes this was the main reason).

[GutsAP]

It was dope as shit for the day CoF wasn't nerfed into the ground.

[Armakus]

Honestly, I think it comes down to corporate influence. It's not worth the investment to make the spec compelling, probably some bean counter telling a dev that rets who don't like the playstyle or numbers will just reroll and he should focus his attention on cash shop mounts.

So very few specs in this game have any vision or direction. I feel like ret has some sort of hybrid tax bill they are still paying from BC days.

- - - Updated - - -



Heh, its better than WW at least.

I get where you're coming from, but this is really nonsensical. Gameplay devs are not the same devs that create mount models/animations.