(TV) Star Trek: Discovery

[baskev]

So the new first look trailer came out today...



... and it's clearly set in the JJverse. That's a good thing, because I think the Klingons look terrible.

This just isn't what I want. I want the Prime Universe back. There isn't a lot of "Star Trekiness" in this trailer to get me to want to see it.

Nope its not set in the JJverse....they said that like 10 times already.

If they where not trying to push it into cannon ( instead of making a 3th universe) then the klingons would be great. But yeah since they push it into cannon it makes no sense at all.
The only reason i can think of that it goes like this:
augment virus happens and they become more human looking (star trek enterprise)> they hate it and go overboard and look like this (star trek discovery)> they find out they need to live thru it for a generation and they will return to what they should look like ( TOS) > they look normal again. (TNG, DS9, the one who we do not talk about).

And yeah its kinda not star trek so far. ( but i have seen the first 2 episode's...and their is potential)( but i hate the human vulcan person, very poorly written). And yeah star trekiness ...The orville is kicking its ass with this.

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Nah, they said so themselves; that Trump's campaign motivated them to insult everything that Trump supporters represent -- or rather, what your average leftist thinks they represent. You know the Klingons are intended to represent "white supremacists"? And they made them black, with thick lips, wide noses, and primitive howling... talk about irony there!

...they have a more "black" appearance because of there actors...Klingons have been ( most of the time) darker skinned. And in this day and age going black face is a bad move ( always was btw).

[Sunseeker]

Is this the part where I link the clip from The Outcast episode of TNG again? I've got news for you, buddy: Star Trek has been doing the social justice thing for 50 years now. It's not the creators of Discovery's fault that you're ignorant of that.

Not to mention that all the non-human races, even the Federation ones, all have this "racial superiority" complex going for them. Humans are about the only species that doesn't. If white supremacists are offended that Klingons are poking fun at them, then two things 1: who the fuck cares what white supremacists are offended by? and 2: the Klingons have always been racial supremacist assholes. So are the Vulcans, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Andorians and practically everyone else.

[s_bushido]

Not to mention that all the non-human races, even the Federation ones, all have this "racial superiority" complex going for them. Humans are about the only species that doesn't. If white supremacists are offended that Klingons are poking fun at them, then two things 1: who the fuck cares what white supremacists are offended by? and 2: the Klingons have always been racial supremacist assholes. So are the Vulcans, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Andorians and practically everyone else.

I want to say that humans in Trek (or at least the humans we see in Starfleet) have always been alien compared to us. It's the aliens in the show that are usually given the job of reflecting different aspects of ourselves.

[Sunseeker]

I want to say that humans in Trek (or at least the humans we see in Starfleet) have always been alien compared to us. It's the aliens in the show that are usually given the job of reflecting different aspects of ourselves.

Yeah, I can buy that. The humans in ST are super idealized and I think it's sort of a "don't act like those guys, act like these guys" sort of deal.

[I Push Buttons]

Not to mention that all the non-human races, even the Federation ones, all have this "racial superiority" complex going for them. Humans are about the only species that doesn't. If white supremacists are offended that Klingons are poking fun at them, then two things 1: who the fuck cares what white supremacists are offended by? and 2: the Klingons have always been racial supremacist assholes. So are the Vulcans, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Andorians and practically everyone else.

Yeah, I can buy that. The humans in ST are super idealized and I think it's sort of a "don't act like those guys, act like these guys" sort of deal.

Well they are failing pretty bad if their goal was an idealized humanity to contrast the evil Trump supporting Klingons with...

The main protagonist:
- Betrays (and attacks) her friend and Captain of seven years in an instant with seemingly no reservations; betrays everyone in her crew by trying to make them attack the Klingons against the wishes of the Captain.
- Is blinded by racial hatred of the Klingons leading to the above.
- Instantly disregards her own plan of capturing and disgracing the evil Trump supporting Klingon leader by deliberately killing him in cold blood (they emphasize her switching her gun from blue (stun) to red (kill)) and making him a martyr.
- Also pretty ironic since she is a minority that they make her break the law and go to prison.

Or is their idealized human of the future a disloyal, schizophrenic, violent, racist, criminal?

[primalmatter]

Its...

passable I guess? Seems less star trek and more generic space show honestly.

[Ol Scratch]

I know lol. It actually does though. I was responding to the guy claiming "They're *already working on a series to replace this train wreck*.". Which he provided no evidence for but claimed there was.

And he told you how you can find it for yourself. Also, him not including a link for you doesn't make it any less true (and it is most definitely true). It's nobody's job but yours to alleviate your own ignorance, especially when you have access to a worldwide computer network with extensive search capabilities. Message forums are not term papers, documentaries, or Wikipedia entries. People are not required to cite references for anything and everything they say, let alone when a clueless sod screams about not knowing something in annoying and douchey ways.

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Its...

passable I guess? Seems less star trek and more generic space show honestly.

That's an understatement. It comes across as a really feeble attempt to Battlestar Galactica the franchise. Except it's being done by people who don't understand why the BSG reboot worked, why Star Trek has been popular for over 50 years, or why its had such a dedicated fanbase for the entirety of that time period.

[primalmatter]

And he told you how you can find it for yourself. Also, him not including a link for you doesn't make it any less true (and it is most definitely true). It's nobody's job but yours to alleviate your own ignorance, especially when you have access to a worldwide computer network with extensive search capabilities. Message forums are not term papers, documentaries, or Wikipedia entries. People are not required to cite references for anything and everything they say, let alone when a clueless sod screams about not knowing something in annoying and douchey ways.

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That's an understatement. It comes across as a really feeble attempt to Battlestar Galactica the franchise. Except it's being done by people who don't understand why the BSG reboot worked, why Star Trek has been popular for over 50 years, or why its had such a dedicated fanbase for the entirety of that time period.

Kinda it took a friend to explain to me why the captain said something along the lines of " If anyone should be understanding of this its you" It actually kind of floored me they wanted to play the whole I am a strong black women... in a star trek show...

[Ol Scratch]

Well they are failing pretty bad if their goal was an idealized humanity to contrast the evil Trump supporting Klingons with...

The main protagonist:
- Betrays (and attacks) her friend and Captain of seven years in an instant with seemingly no reservations; betrays everyone in her crew by trying to make them attack the Klingons against the wishes of the Captain.
- Is blinded by racial hatred of the Klingons leading to the above.
- Instantly disregards her own plan of capturing and disgracing the evil Trump supporting Klingon leader by deliberately killing him in cold blood (they emphasize her switching her gun from blue (stun) to red (kill)) and making him a martyr.
- Also pretty ironic since she is a minority that they make her break the law and go to prison.

Or is their idealized human of the future a disloyal, schizophrenic, violent, racist, criminal?

It's even more annoying that than. Not only have they completely ruined the core of what Starfleet at Star Trek's humanity represent, but the Klingons themselves are a really disgusting, insulting, and embarrassing portrayal of Trumpettes and white nationalists.

The only major character on the show thus far that's even been close to a Starfleet officer has been Captain Georgiou. Lt. Saru being from an entire race of cowards is just cringeworthy, and Burnham is... well, don't get me started on her. In fact, everything relating to Burnham is awful, including Sarek, the ridiculous long-range telepathy from a race that's only mildly telepathic (and with another one that *isn't* telepathic at all), and the whole "oh, bee tee dubs guys, Spock had an adopted sister, lolz" thing... ugh! Seriously, just ugh!

That show isn't Star Trek. And from the preview of the rest of the season, it looks like it's only going to get worse, with every human on the Discovery basically hating her for trying to protect her ship and the fleet.

[Frontenac]

Well they are failing pretty bad if their goal was an idealized humanity to contrast the evil Trump supporting Klingons with...

The main protagonist:
- Betrays (and attacks) her friend and Captain of seven years in an instant with seemingly no reservations; betrays everyone in her crew by trying to make them attack the Klingons against the wishes of the Captain.
- Is blinded by racial hatred of the Klingons leading to the above.
- Instantly disregards her own plan of capturing and disgracing the evil Trump supporting Klingon leader by deliberately killing him in cold blood (they emphasize her switching her gun from blue (stun) to red (kill)) and making him a martyr.
- Also pretty ironic since she is a minority that they make her break the law and go to prison.

Or is their idealized human of the future a disloyal, schizophrenic, violent, racist, criminal?

It's not just Discovery. All Star Trek has been like that, since 1967. The humans in Star Trek, although they still have flaws, are an optimistic view of what humanity could become: no poverty, guided by science, searching for peace and diplomatic solutions, open to differences. The alien races are aspects of our present humanity. The Klingons have always been imperialists and xenophobic. Martok said it himself: "We are Klingons, Worf! We don't embrace other cultures, we conquer them!" And this is a good Klingon! Imagine the rest... So, "Make the Klingon Empire great again!" and "Q'onos first!" would not be alien words in T'kuvma's mouth.

Also, taking one character as representative of all humanity is dishonest.

[I Push Buttons]

Also, taking one character as representative of all humanity is dishonest.

How so? They are the protagonist of the show, they are literally (on the show as a Starfleet officer) and figuratively (as the protagonist) the representative of humanity for the show..........

[Jodmos]

Well they are failing pretty bad if their goal was an idealized humanity to contrast the evil Trump supporting Klingons with...

The main protagonist:
- Betrays (and attacks) her friend and Captain of seven years in an instant with seemingly no reservations; betrays everyone in her crew by trying to make them attack the Klingons against the wishes of the Captain.
- Is blinded by racial hatred of the Klingons leading to the above.
- Instantly disregards her own plan of capturing and disgracing the evil Trump supporting Klingon leader by deliberately killing him in cold blood (they emphasize her switching her gun from blue (stun) to red (kill)) and making him a martyr.
- Also pretty ironic since she is a minority that they make her break the law and go to prison.

Or is their idealized human of the future a disloyal, schizophrenic, violent, racist, criminal?

1/2 I took that as her making a logical decision based on the information provided by Sarek. Good of the Many (ship/federation) outweighs the good of the one (ie her)
3 - I thought she just grabbed a phaser and shot him because he was attacking Georgio and only after did she realise the phaser wasn't on stun.
4 - is disobeying orders breaking the law? she was court martialed but the whole sending her to prison is kind of ironic.

[I Push Buttons]

1/2 I took that as her making a logical decision based on the information provided by Sarek. Good of the Many (ship/federation) outweighs the good of the one (ie her)

Even Sarek told her not to attack them.

3 - I thought she just grabbed a phaser and shot him because he was attacking Georgio and only after did she realise the phaser wasn't on stun.

No, its deliberate.

4 - is disobeying orders breaking the law? she was court martialed but the whole sending her to prison is kind of ironic.

Yeah, disobeying orders is bad on its own, but this was beyond that... It was attempted mutiny, she tried to seize control of the ship.

In today's military that crime is punishable by death.

[Ivanstone]

It's even more annoying that than. Not only have they completely ruined the core of what Starfleet at Star Trek's humanity represent, but the Klingons themselves are a really disgusting, insulting, and embarrassing portrayal of Trumpettes and white nationalists.

I think you're reading too much into what happened in a single episode.

I'm also not sure how the Klingons work as a Trump portrayal. There have already been racist totalitarians in previous ST shows. The new Klingons are somewhat more fanatical in their piety but aren't really more racist than they were in TOS. The Trump angle was already explored 20+ years ago with another race.

I'm not blind to the possibility the show could be a huge dumpster fire. They were some good parts, some bad parts, some whatthefuck parts. As it is, its an ok ST episode with some extra heavy special effects. I'm willing to forgive the excesses for an opener.

Also Lt. Saru is solid fucking gold. The idea that a sentient species could develop whilst not being the apex predator on their home planet is something I don't think I've seen in a Sci-Fi series before.

[Jodmos]

1/2 No. he said it may not work for humans not that she shouldn't do it.

3. give you that. didn't notice at the time.

4. Depends on the country I guess but I expect that is normal in US.

Personally I liked the Klingons and they seemed Klingon to me based on other series and literature, I just think they didn't need to redo the look again. (sideline - the problem with Warcraft movie was trying to shoehorn in too much backstory, and I think this was going that way, something simpler to introduce the characters may have worked better but that might not have generated enough 'action' for the nonStar Trek fans they're trying to pull in.)

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I think you're reading too much into what happened in a single episode.

I'm also not sure how the Klingons work as a Trump portrayal. There have already been racist totalitarians in previous ST shows. The new Klingons are somewhat more fanatical in their piety but aren't really more racist than they were in TOS. The Trump angle was already explored 20+ years ago with another race.

I'm not blind to the possibility the show could be a huge dumpster fire. They were some good parts, some bad parts, some whatthefuck parts. As it is, its an ok ST episode with some extra heavy special effects. I'm willing to forgive the excesses for an opener.

Also Lt. Saru is solid fucking gold. The idea that a sentient species could develop whilst not being the apex predator on their home planet is something I don't think I've seen in a Sci-Fi series before.

Saru - The uplift series (David Brin) plays on that were species raise other species to sentience (not for food though). Not a TV/film series though.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Just start with TNG. It is pretty cheesy early on and slow to pick up, but then it gets better... Then DS9 after that. Personally I enjoyed the first few seasons of Voyager, but most people here seem to hate it; anywho watch that third.

I agree with this. TNG is a good starting point. Not so old that it will turn off most people and it is pretty much the foundation of DS9 and Voyager (so if you end up liking TNG those 2, or at least 1 of those 2 will be to your liking). Just remember it was made in the late 80's and early 90's so it has this kinda "pop" feel to it. The first couple seasons for sure. Don't give up on it because the first couple are meh. Because the last 4-5 are really good television but the first couple to play setup of personalities and persons that run throughout the course of the show that matter. It is a show of mostly stand alone episodes but they do cross paths often. A running theme in most Star Trek shows (imo) is it usually takes them a season or two to get their footing and have the characters down to what they want them to be and for the themes of the shows not to plan jane / black and white sci-fi tropes.

Plus I mean it has Patrick Stewart as the Captain and he is a pretty easy actor to watch preform. Then it has Brent Spiner as Data which is a pretty solid performance. It is hard to go wrong on that front.

[Deleted]

The worst thing is that Discovery betrays all what Star Trek stand for. The show do everything to show that Michael was right. Shoot first and shoot to kill, that is the right way, its so non Star Trek it can be.

But I do like the protagonists is flawed and start the war and have to take the consequences, but not in my Star Trek. Star Trek shall be light not dark.

[Frontenac]

How so? They are the protagonist of the show, they are literally (on the show as a Starfleet officer) and figuratively (as the protagonist) the representative of humanity for the show..........

Not they, she, since you are speaking solely of Michael Burnham. Captain Georgiou, the Admiral, that poor guy who got sucked into space (we're explorers, not soldiers), they are still all very much following the ideals of Starfleet and how humanity has been depicted in the franchise. Also, Burnham was raised by Vulcans. She made a mistake, but she thought she was acting logicaly for the good of the crew. And yes, she's prejudiced against Klingons. Like Kirk was, if you remember his logs in Star Trek VI. That's called flaws. That means that there is room for character development. But you won't see that in two episodes. It takes some time, you see... I believe that makes her a compelling character.

[I Push Buttons]

Not they, she, since you are speaking solely of Michael Burnham. Captain Georgiou, the Admiral, that poor guy who got sucked into space (we're explorers, not soldiers), they are still all very much following the ideals of Starfleet and how humanity has been depicted in the franchise. Also, Burnham was raised by Vulcans. She made a mistake, but she thought she was acting logicaly for the good of the crew. And yes, she's prejudiced against Klingons. Like Kirk was, if you remember his logs in Star Trek VI. That's called flaws. That means that there is room for character development. But you won't see that in two episodes. It takes some time, you see... I believe that makes her a compelling character.

Did you just assume their gender?

[Jodmos]

Did you just assume their gender?

Given they made a big deal that she was female and would be the lead character I don't call that an assumption.