[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Nihilan]

"Our stance?" Right.

I was referring to how you and a few other posters here respond with personal attacks to every single instance of criticism of SC, CGI, or CR himself. You seldom respond with thoughtful or civil replies. You never attempt polite debate. You lash out. You attack. It is the purest form of insecurity.

It always seems to boil down to an "us vs them" situation. It doesnt have to. I am a former supporter of this game. I am now a critic of CGIs practices and lack of progress. You make it sound like were fucking mortal enemies or something.

Then you have the audacity to say "its only a game".

[Deleted]

StarCitizen Devs before a video meeting with Roberts. The conference room is called "Retribution". They look sad ...



Plesae post productively. Infracted. -Edge

[MrAnderson]

"Our stance?" Right.

I was referring to how you and a few other posters here respond with personal attacks to every single instance of criticism of SC, CGI, or CR himself. You seldom respond with thoughtful or civil replies. You never attempt polite debate. You lash out. You attack. It is the purest form of insecurity.

It always seems to boil down to an "us vs them" situation. It doesnt have to. I am a former supporter of this game. I am now a critic of CGIs practices and lack of progress. You make it sound like were fucking mortal enemies or something.

Then you have the audacity to say "its only a game".

Actually that was a typo, I mean to write "your stance" ofc.

One thing is constructive criticism other thing is hatefull and mocking behaviour out of spite because of petty reasons.
Yes complaining about delays is a petty reason, complaining about gameplay changes is a petty reason. Focusing on Chris Roberts and lashing out everything about the game because you don't fancy the man is a petty and distasteful reason.

We don't attack critics we call out bullshit when we see it. Which is probably 99% of the times anyone has anything "bad" to say about it.

[Majestic12]

Well that's an easy one, because he didn't. Same way other developers don't "fuck up" when things change.
You are clearly so rattled with Chris Roberts for some obscure reason I don't wan't to know that you let that emotional distress to hinder your opinions.

You make it just too personal to be taken serious. It's just a game anyway.

It's not personal, I don't know Chris. I'm attacking his decisions as a professional, not him as a person/father/whatever he is at home.

Let's stick with the performance-increasing 3.0 that he said would hit in December for a bit. Why would Chris go and tell everybody that? Is it because:

1. He knew it wouldn't be ready and lied to the backers to increase hype/crowdfunding. (He misled us)
2. He believed it would be ready but was severily mistaken. (He is incompetent)

Which is it, Mr.Anderson? No matter how you spin this, he fucked up royally. And that's just the most recent example.

Chris is incompetent as the head guy. Simple as that really.

[zealo]

Actually that was a typo, I mean to write "your stance" ofc.

One thing is constructive criticism other thing is hatefull and mocking behaviour out of spite because of petty reasons.
Yes complaining about delays is a petty reason, complaining about gameplay changes is a petty reason. Focusing on Chris Roberts and lashing out everything about the game because you don't fancy the man is a petty and distasteful reason.

We don't attack critics we call out bullshit when we see it. Which is probably 99% of the times anyone has anything "bad" to say about it.

Or it's you that lash out at absolutely everything as "hateful", no matter whether it's constructive or not. The kind of post EvcRo dropped just above yours is a prime example of what is FUD shitposting, not simply being sceptical of CIGs ability to deliver on time.

[KyrtF]

Well that's an easy one, because he didn't. Same way other developers don't "fuck up" when things change.
You are clearly so rattled with Chris Roberts for some obscure reason I don't wan't to know that you let that emotional distress to hinder your opinions.

You make it just too personal to be taken serious. It's just a game anyway.

Chris Roberts made the decision to use CryEngine...a system totally unsuited for the game he planned
Chris Roberts decided to alter the game focus from a WC successor to a life sim set in the SCU.
Chris Roberts decided to change the engine and not communicate the changes to third party devs resulting in years of work being thrown out
Chris Roberts threw out even more work.
Chris Roberts stood up on stage and lied to his backers when he said 3.0 would be out before the EoY16.

CRs nade lots of 'mistakes"

[MrAnderson]

It's not personal, I don't know Chris. I'm attacking his decisions as a professional, not him as a person/father/whatever he is at home.

Let's stick with the performance-increasing 3.0 that he said would hit in December for a bit. Why would Chris go and tell everybody that? Is it because:

1. He knew it wouldn't be ready and lied to the backers to increase hype/crowdfunding. (He misled us)
2. He believed it would be ready but was severily mistaken. (He is incompetent)

Which is it, Mr.Anderson? No matter how you spin this, he fucked up royally. And that's just the most recent example.

Chris is incompetent as the head guy. Simple as that really.

You are not in a position to attack his decisions as a professional because you are not in his shoes. Armchair dev'ing is so easy isin't it?
You don't like you leave, simple. Pretending you know better than him or anyone at CIG is just dumb rhetoric of make believe. Nothing you say or do in this forum can change Star Citizen development or the way Chris Roberts develops the game. It's useless and pie in the sky rethoric. You are wrong all the way through on your "conclusions" because you fail to see the bigger picture (like most armchair dev's) you lack the knowledge and the intelligence to see further than what your red tinted binoculars allow you to.

Chris Roberts decisions have led him into the absolute best position both a developer and us gamers could ever hope for. FUD'ers and impatient gamers just can't deal with it's success without lashing out in make believe doom predictions but time keeps proving them wrong, again and again.

Chris Roberts made the decision to use CryEngine...a system totally unsuited for the game he planned
Chris Roberts decided to alter the game focus from a WC successor to a life sim set in the SCU.
Chris Roberts decided to change the engine and not communicate the changes to third party devs resulting in years of work being thrown out
Chris Roberts threw out even more work.
Chris Roberts stood up on stage and lied to his backers when he said 3.0 would be out before the EoY16.

CRs nade lots of 'mistakes"

All those decisions were made based on what was known at the time and what funding was allowed at the time.

Looking back they were absolutely the best decision of the project, that's why it keeps getting bigger, better and with more backers.

You kids should learn how to manage your expectations, adults are making a video-game over here, not catering to your petty wishful thinking.

[Rennadrel]

If you want to take some simple maths based on industry numbers with no mention of collapse or ELE or any of that bullshit and shovel in a load of your useless rhetoric in an attempt to twist the discussion into some banal tribal nonsense then that is on you.

There's a difference between having a grown up conversation about how much money is likely to have been used over the last 5 years and emotive, knee-jerky, childish comments using words like haters, imminent collapse, doom preachers etc.

If you get this emotional over a computer game perhaps you should take up knitting instead.

I still find it hilarious that the amount of shitposting you haters keep getting away with and comparing games that are over a decade old (WoW), or games that were in development hell for 20 years (ED), or even several years (NMS), or games that won't have near the same amount of release content and features as SC, just shows how obnoxious you all are. Honestly, I don't give a flying fuck how long a game takes to make or how much money the developers are spending. Christ, as long as the fucking game gets completed, that's all I care about. When it's done, it will be done, but I don't expect the entirety of the project to be done for at least a few more years. It's been obvious to us long time backers that the scope of the game is nearly impossible to measure in terms of development time, especially when running into some of the biggest brick walls that the SC team has had to deal with. Stop stroking Derek Smart's egotistical cock and get the fuck out of this thread if you don't have something worthwhile to contribute other than constant pessimism and doom.

[Majestic12]

You are not in a position to attack his decisions as a professional because you are not in his shoes. Armchair dev'ing is so easy isin't it?
You don't like you leave, simple. Pretending you know better than him or anyone at CIG is just dumb rhetoric of make believe. Nothing you say or do in this forum can change Star Citizen development or the way Chris Roberts develops the game. It's useless and pie in the sky rethoric. You are wrong all the way through on your "conclusions" because you fail to see the bigger picture (like most armchair dev's) you lack the knowledge and the intelligence to see further than what your red tinted binoculars allow you to.

Chris Roberts decisions have led him into the absolute best position both a developer and us gamers could ever hope for. FUD'ers and impatient gamers just can't deal with it's success without lashing out in make believe doom predictions but time keeps proving them wrong, again and again.



All those decisions were made based on what was known at the time and what funding was allowed at the time.

Looking back they were absolutely the best decision of the project, that's why it keeps getting bigger, better and with more backers.

You kids should learn how to manage your expectations, adults are making a video-game over here, not catering to your petty wishful thinking.

All right so you didn't even answer my question. Just like I suspected. You avoided it entirely and then went on another rant about subjectivity and "haters".
I am a developer, by the way, just not for games. I know how development works, period. And what CR did with the 3.0 marketing - nobody does that. The reason he can get away with it is because he has guys like you who will mindlessly defend him. Hell, he could punch your granny in the face and you'd still forgive him.

You're just beyond reason reason at this point.

You won't criticise or acknowledge that Chris fucked up because you're afraid. This is exactly what happened with NMS and when that failed you guys just disappeared all of a sudden and never came back.

What you guys had in common is that you were all in pure denial. "But... maybe MP is just disabled!" No. It doesn't exist, just like the original 3.0. Chris lied, just accept it.

[Kuja]

This game seems like it will be ready in 5 years, and by then it's already outdated.

[Eleccybubb]

This game seems like it will be ready in 5 years, and by then it's already outdated.

Pretty much.

People keep talking about the "scope" of this game but scope means jack when you are taking forever to develop it.

You can spend all the time developing the best game in the world with high end features and it can still end up being terrible.

[MrAnderson]

All right so you didn't even answer my question. Just like I suspected. You avoided it entirely and then went on another rant about subjectivity and "haters".
I am a developer, by the way, just not for games. I know how development works, period. And what CR did with the 3.0 marketing - nobody does that. The reason he can get away with it is because he has guys like you who will mindlessly defend him. Hell, he could punch your granny in the face and you'd still forgive him.

You're just beyond reason reason at this point.

You won't criticise or acknowledge that Chris fucked up because you're afraid. This is exactly what happened with NMS and when that failed you guys just disappeared all of a sudden and never came back.

What you guys had in common is that you were all in pure denial. "But... maybe MP is just disabled!" No. It doesn't exist, just like the original 3.0. Chris lied, just accept it.

The way you are posting it's typical bullshitter. You don't know shit, you are a liar and deceiver saying that you are in the Evocati and you played 3.0. You keep trowing that sweet mumbo jumbo of whole lot of nothing to obfuscate the fact that your whole arguments are based on lies and ignorance.

The only people who fucked up were the ones who didn't managed their expectations accordingly, maybe inform yourself before splashing 600$ in crowdfunding.

Also you keep bringing up that kid's game NMS as if it has anything to do with me or Star Citizen. Development in one single Star Citizen ship has more complexity than both NMS and Elite together, dunno why people need to bring up them as good examples of space games when all they did was disappoint gamers.

[KyrtF]

Looking back they were absolutely the best decision of the project, that's why it keeps getting bigger, better and with more backers.

You kids should learn how to manage your expectations, adults are making a video-game over here, not catering to your petty wishful thinking.

Seriously?

Chris Roberts KNEW that he would have to make major changes to CryEngine and he knrw it was unsuited.

He still went ahead with it.

Chris Roberts originally planned and developed a Wing Commander style game. He did not have to change focus with his decision to make an MMO style game. Doing so inevitably meant huge delays and extra costs due to the necessity to plan and design an MMO game, especially since CryEngine was even LESS suited for that game style.

I persinally fail to see how deciding to keep third party developers in the dark about changes and upgrades to the games core engine to the point eberything they created needed to be scrapped can be desribed as "the best decision for the project". I personally would ascribe sheer incompetence in that he simply forgot they needed to know and didn't give them the information.

Similarly...I do not see how lying to his backers can be described as a good decision.

And so on.

None of these were the right or best decisions. ALL of them and more were poor decisions and more, it was obvious at the time they were poor decisions.

[Majestic12]

The way you are posting it's typical bullshitter. You don't know shit, you are a liar and deceiver saying that you are in the Evocati and you played 3.0. You keep trowing that sweet mumbo jumbo of whole lot of nothing to obfuscate the fact that your whole arguments are based on lies and ignorance.

The only people who fucked up were the ones who didn't managed their expectations accordingly, maybe inform yourself before splashing 600$ in crowdfunding.

Also you keep bringing up that kid's game NMS as if it has anything to do with me or Star Citizen. Development in one single Star Citizen ship has more complexity than both NMS and Elite together, dunno why people need to bring up them as good examples of space games when all they did was disappoint gamers.

Just sounds like you can't comprehend it, really. The reason you're saying "bullshitter" is because you simply don't like what I'm saying and therefore you try to discredit me. I'm calling you out on specific things Chris did and all you do is respond with blanket statements and don't even address the question.

That's the ultimate difference between you and me. I'm factual and a realist, you're not.

[MrAnderson]

Seriously?

Chris Roberts KNEW that he would have to make major changes to CryEngine and he knrw it was unsuited.

He still went ahead with it.

Chris Roberts originally planned and developed a Wing Commander style game. He did not have to change focus with his decision to make an MMO style game. Doing so inevitably meant huge delays and extra costs due to the necessity to plan and design an MMO game, especially since CryEngine was even LESS suited for that game style.

I persinally fail to see how deciding to keep third party developers in the dark about changes and upgrades to the games core engine to the point eberything they created needed to be scrapped can be desribed as "the best decision for the project". I personally would ascribe sheer incompetence in that he simply forgot they needed to know and didn't give them the information.

Similarly...I do not see how lying to his backers can be described as a good decision.

And so on.

None of these were the right or best decisions. ALL of them and more were poor decisions and more, it was obvious at the time they were poor decisions.

OFC he went with it, any engine he choose would need rework , making a new engine from scratch would need a rework.

Chris improved is vision because he got more money to do it. He is honouring it's pledger by giving them more gameplay they could ever imagined, that's why he keeps getting support from backers.

What other games are out there doing with Star Citizen is going for? None so stop with the engine bullshit the financial bullshit and any other dumb reason you guys find to hate on Star Citizen. It's a useless waste of time.

That's the ultimate difference between you and me. I'm factual and a realist, you're not.

We have nothing to discuss. You're a bullshiter and don't know nothing about Star Citizen or you have interest in knowing, you lie and deceive because you got nothing else. Your necessity to try and pretend of being evocati and playing 3.0 to validate your opinions showed everything about you and your pathetic motives.

Keep hating we keep on backing.

[Jastall]

Pretty much.

People keep talking about the "scope" of this game but scope means jack when you are taking forever to develop it.

You can spend all the time developing the best game in the world with high end features and it can still end up being terrible.

Yeah, that's my view as well. I don't care how great the ''scope'' and ''vision'' are if the actual game isn't fun to play. Modern sandbox titles are often great in scope, by which I mean they have a vast map crammed full of rinse-repeat busywork. I'm not saying Star Citizen will be like that, but ambition and scale can only carry a game so far.

[Post]

Well that's an easy one, because he didn't.

Saying Chris didn't fuck up at this point is denying reality. This is worse than NMS, at least those who tried their best to defend it admitted that Sean made mistakes, and at least they had a game to defend...

[Onvious]

Chris simply lied about 3.0. why ppl still defend him in forums. LoL

[KyrtF]

OFC he went with it, any engine he choose would need rework , making a new engine from scratch would need a rework.

How on earth would making a new engine from scratch require a "rework"?

He goofed. He made a mistake.

**IF** he had kept with his original plan of creating a Wing Commander type game then possibly things would have worked out.

CryEngine would still require heavy modification, but nowhere near the degree of modification required to create the open world MMO he is making now. Third party devs would have shouldered much of the development burden but their work would remain compatible and useable. The preparatation CR did to create his game would still be valid and he would have ended up throwing less work away.

Lets face it.....CR got "ambitious" when the crowdfunding became successful.

CryEngine required so much work at that stage that it would have been cheaper, easier, quicker to create their own engine.

That CR chose not to do this is perhaps the single biggest mistake he has made. Five years after Kickstarter, he is still working on engine modifications and that is affecting the rest of the game.

Chris improved is vision because he got more money to do it. He is honouring it's pledger by giving them more gameplay they could ever imagined, that's why he keeps getting support from backers.

"Improved"?

There's little wrong with CRs vision.

But software and game development requires planning and the game he is creating now is not the game CR planned and developed before Kickstarter.

What other games are out there doing with Star Citizen is going for? None so stop with the engine bullshit the financial bullshit and any other dumb reason you guys find to hate on Star Citizen. It's a useless waste of time.

Apart from Elite Dangerous and No Mans Skies...and SWTOR....I think you could probably add EVE to the list....

We have nothing to discuss. You're a bullshiter and don't know nothing about Star Citizen or you have interest in knowing, you lie and deceive because you got nothing else. Your necessity to try and pretend of being evocati and playing 3.0 to validate your opinions showed everything about you and your pathetic motives.

Keep hating we keep on backing.

"Discussion" would imply you have some answers to the issues raised and so are capable of having a discourse. You don't....you simply throw around words like "hater" to pretend that anyone who criticises Star Citizen is doing so because of personal hatred or with an agenda.

That Majestic12 points out flaws with 3.0 does not mean he is not an Evocati. Thats what he is supposed to do.

But telling us CR and CIG have made no mistakes? That their judgement has been perfect?

Seriously? You expect to be taken seriously after that?

CIG has made HUGE mistakes in the development of this game. So has CR.

The feature list was not locked down soon enough. Feature creep and bloat doesn't work anywhere in life....it doesn't work in software engineering either.

CR should have chosen a custom engine. If he was going to spend years modifying CE, he might as well have spent those years creating a custom engine instead. He'd have been finished by now.

Chris Roberts showed an extreme degree of incompetence when he did not keep third party developers uptodate with engine changes. He had a plan for his original vision that entailed using 3rd parties to develop the game and he didn't change his plan when be switched from space combat sim to MMO. Ilfonic was familiar with CryEngine so they should have been able to deliver the FPS module.

They DID deliver the FPS module. We all saw it. It worked.

But they delivered it for CryEngine. Not StarEngine.

When your Project Lead doesn't think third parties need to be kept uptospeed on engine changes and wastes years of developmrmt and millions of dollars as a result, that's what most people call a mistake.

They are still doing it...how many assets are having to be reworked in 3.0 to get them to work?

Look even at how CIG are handling the testing of 3.0. They don't want leaks so have an NDA. They want to enforce the NDA so have added watermarks.

Did this stop leaks? No...because they goofed. Again. The watermarks can be removed by turning down the graphics. Videos are still coming out, but now they are being released WITHOUT the one aspect that Star Citizen had tried to make its own..."graphical fidelity". Coming so soon after the mess that was GC17 and THOSE character models, all they are doing is destroying the idea that Star Citizen at least looks good.

[MrAnderson]

May I recommend you to just mute him or ignore his posts instead of throwing a tantrum?
Cuz seriously, it’s just ridiculous at this point…
“we”, “our”… just out of curiosity, who are you supposed to be representing here?

I'lll keep calling out his or anyone's bullshit whenever I seel fit.

"We" backers vs "Them" smarties.

You probably out of the loop but there's a bunch of bitter folks that simply don't want to see Star Citizen succeed and because of that feel the need to intoxicate any thread they go to by spreading lies, misconceptions and "concern" pretending to like or even care about Star Citizen.

Calling out their bullshit is easy because they have no leg to stand on.

Saying Chris didn't fuck up at this point is denying reality. This is worse than NMS, at least those who tried their best to defend it admitted that Sean made mistakes, and at least they had a game to defend...

Oh did he? A guy who creates a company from scratch in 5 years with 400+ dev's and amasses about 2$million's per month on it's way to the 161$million, makes partnerships with AMD, NVIDIA, INTEL, AMAZON and has been feature in multiple gaming magazines articles WHILE building a game and opening it's process for anyone who cares to see is "fucking up" ohohoh. Basically you don't know what you talk about.

«zip»

You can't expect a game like this to be made without making "mistakes", it's part of it. If you go by that scrutiny EVERY developer makes "mistakes" and it's OK for them to make those, they are essential part of any creative development.

From what we've seen now Chris Roberts made all the right decisions because CIG is still going strong, Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are still being developed and people and money keep coming in. If they had folded and crashed yes you could talk about "failing" and "mistakes".

That's what there's to it, nothing else. If you are frustrated by game development maybe stick to something else, play NMS or Elite or SWTOR lol