Fire stats, what is going on?

[CptEgo]

I am quite confused about the stat priority for Fire I must say. I've always gone crit->mastery and Noxxic still lists this as being the priority. Now, when you go to Icyveins, they are now saying that crit is literally my worst stat. What the hell? https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fire-m...-stat-priority

[gushDH]

Please, please, please NEVER go to noxxic. It is a terrible website which has no idea what to talk about. Please never read anything from it. It has wrong pretty much everything.

Now, for you, the first thing to check is indeed icy veins. After that, go to altered time, https://www.altered-time.com/forum/ , which is a mage forum.

Lastly, go to raidbots.com , go to stat weights, import your character either from the armory menu given there, or from using the simcraft addon and pasting it in the second menu, and generate stat weights. These will be the most precise stats you should go for. Keep in mind that stat weights change when you get or lose a tier set bonus or even if you change one piece of gear.

[CptEgo]

Please, please, please NEVER go to noxxic. It is a terrible website which has no idea what to talk about. Please never read anything from it. It has wrong pretty much everything.

Now, for you, the first thing to check is indeed icy veins. After that, go to altered time, https://www.altered-time.com/forum/ , which is a mage forum.

Lastly, go to raidbots.com , go to stat weights, import your character either from the armory menu given there, or from using the simcraft addon and pasting it in the second menu, and generate stat weights. These will be the most precise stats you should go for. Keep in mind that stat weights change when you get or lose a tier set bonus or even if you change one piece of gear.

Thanks alot, that's very helpful

[Charge me Doctor]

Crit dropped down to being 2nd stat for me after reaching 60%, now it's versatility>crit for single target. But i still gear mastery>crit (until 50%), because when second target appears for even short amount of time mastery skyrockets.

Probably it has something to do with set bonuses if the guy behind this guide in OP values crit that low. Never seen it drop that low in value. And firestarter probably has something to do with it

[Biomega]

The reason crit is such a low-value stat for most people is that a lot of mechanics actually revolve around GUARANTEED crits. Since crit is effectively wasted on things that crit automatically, it is far less beneficial overall than you'd perhaps expect from a class so centered around the crit mechanic. Mastery, on the other hand, scales fairly directly and has few diminishing factors - which is why, for most people, it's the best stat.

Of course, you should always sim your own character when it comes to gearing choices. There are many variables involved that can skew values one way or the other, and there is a reason every resource puts a big caveat on their "stat priority" lists (or should do so, anyway). What may be true for MOST people still doesn't have to hold for ALL people, in all possible gear combinations at all possible gear levels. Don't obsess about "BiS" bullshit, because that's not a reality for anyone. Work with what you actually have.

[gushDH]

Thanks alot, that's very helpful

I should also add you can change the number of targets at raidbots.com if you scroll a bit down and open the menu "Simulation Options", so you can see how your stat weights change when you attack more targets, which is nice if you do more mythic+ or whatever.

[Erolian]

I should also add you can change the number of targets at raidbots.com if you scroll a bit down and open the menu "Simulation Options", so you can see how your stat weights change when you attack more targets, which is nice if you do more mythic+ or whatever.

Its pretty useful to know in any situation because nearly every single raid boss for, like, the last 3 expansions has had adds. Sure they'll make a couple pure ST encounters every tier but they're never the majority so gearing for pure ST as fire is probably a bad idea nearly all of the time.

[D3athsting]

stats are so close in value that you can just equip the highest ilvl pieces you have, this is true especially for necks and rings, in m+ however you should go full haste if you use flame patch

[HuxNeva]

Single target firestarter and the legendary belt devalue crit a lot as you're looking at significant guaranteed crits for large parts of the fight. For Multitarget haste/mastery is the way to go with Firepatch. As the stats are very different for each situation, you definitely want to make 2 gearsets and swap between them depending on the fight, or in M+ to switch between trash and boss.

[Zenfoldor]

Run firestarter

belt, and bracers.

Run 4p t20

Run shark and owl(unless you got lucky or know what you are doing)

From my post from 9-7-17

That leaves relics and

Neck
2 pieces of set gear slots(assuming you aren't running 2p t19)
boots
rings

Stats are flat enough usually, ilvl wins unless you have 5 ilvls difference in gear.

There is not a lot of area to stack(or unstack) much outside of enchants and gems, so everybody ends up pretty close when they get the requisite gear atm. Trying for high ilvl BiS set pieces is probably optimal.

My question would be this to people who think stacking crit has been ideal since the xpak launched for fire mages. If you were running belt and MI on single target during NH, was haste not outsimming crit for you? Also, if you are running belt/bracers and the rest of the gear I mentioned is Crit simming well for you now? Just curious.

Crit may not be the worst stat with the new set bonus, we will have to wait for balancing pass. You will also have a new req piece of gear then.

This is from months ago, but should still be semi-accurate.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...NphT7NQbRCxkwq

Of course, mastery plays up to our strength. I'd say mastery is our best stat, but that's just me devaluing the single target sim in my head because few or now bosses/trash/mythic+ are true single target and even on the ones that are, mastery is pretty good.(I don't gem or enchant mastery because I have a frost offspec, while this may actually hurt my per/ilvl or per spec parses, my overall dps goes up since frost can outperform fire on certain bosses, or at least that's the idea(ie, 1.4m frost sim on goroth with little effort as frost, based on fight length, much tougher I would assume to hit that as fire at my guilds dps pace is ideal for 2 heros, not a special parse, but solid dps gain for practical purposes and not much effort), I choose a high simming stat for both specs, which means haste or vers, since I have trouble staying under the crit cap as frost)

There is no "soft cap" but if you are geared as suggested in this post, you have very little room to play with and should have respectable crit, no you should not gem it(unless it sims top for you).

The ONLY answer is sim yourself. These are just suggestions based off commonly held gear and playstyle.

Recommendations for a fire mage:

1. Stats are flat, you should have a frost offspec for single target
2. Use recommended gear
3. After that, ilvl > stats
4. Gem/enchant to your sims
5. Run the talents in my sim(with the exception of switching to flame patch on any fight with > 2 adds) until you are parsing well, then you don't need recommendations anymore

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...d/secretofmana

[Lulbalance]

Didn't even see the page count.. this looks pretty much covered.

[Otrew]

Hi i dont understand so much radibots im 59k int, 41% crit, 25% haste, 27% mastery and 4% vers. I just got braces and im using belt also. Owl and shark.

This is my report.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t9QewtExnNYzCB

should i get more vers?

[CptEgo]

Hi i dont understand so much radibots im 59k int, 41% crit, 25% haste, 27% mastery and 4% vers. I just got braces and im using belt also. Owl and shark.

This is my report.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t9QewtExnNYzCB

should i get more ver

That's a very good question. By changing out a single item, haste jumps from being my best stat to being my worst stat. So I think always having perfect stats would be close to impossible.

[Zenfoldor]

Hi i dont understand so much radibots im 59k int, 41% crit, 25% haste, 27% mastery and 4% vers. I just got braces and im using belt also. Owl and shark.

This is my report.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...t9QewtExnNYzCB

should i get more vers?

Resim with firestarter

[Otrew]

Resim with firestarter

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...KMSPnVCnHhv3Vh

[Zenfoldor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...KMSPnVCnHhv3Vh

Looks like it bumped you 150k(nice, is that talent the only thing you changed? cant see gear for some reason on 2nd sim), made crit worst stat, and verse is still your best on single target. However, mastery is strong and will get much better on multiple targets, so if I were you I would gem and enchant mastery unless you are running a frost spec, in which case also sim frost and the end result would probably have you gem/enchant verse or haste(unless you are not struggling to stay under the crit soft cap).

As far as "getting more" from gear, you should go with ilvl since stats are pretty flat. Items of similar ilvl, you may want to go strictly by your single target sim, but since there are so few single target bosses, you may want to instead prioritize mastery once again depending on if you run an offspec.

This call/likely will all change with next tier and may change with each piece of loot, so sim often if you can afford to re-gem/enchant for optimization.

[Otrew]

Looks like it bumped you 150k(nice, is that talent the only thing you changed? cant see gear for some reason on 2nd sim), made crit worst stat, and verse is still your best on single target. However, mastery is strong and will get much better on multiple targets, so if I were you I would gem and enchant mastery unless you are running a frost spec, in which case also sim frost and the end result would probably have you gem/enchant verse or haste(unless you are not struggling to stay under the crit soft cap).

As far as "getting more" from gear, you should go with ilvl since stats are pretty flat. Items of similar ilvl, you may want to go strictly by your single target sim, but since there are so few single target bosses, you may want to instead prioritize mastery once again depending on if you run an offspec.

This call/likely will all change with next tier and may change with each piece of loot, so sim often if you can afford to re-gem/enchant for optimization.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7MTy9fWDY1Fc3gNw/

Those are my logs before bracers. I raid with my guild on weekend. Comparing with other logs i notice mi ignite damage is like 10% (of the total) less than other fire mages even having more mastery, what im doing wrong?

[Zenfoldor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7MTy9fWDY1Fc3gNw/

Those are my logs before bracers. I raid with my guild on weekend. Comparing with other logs i notice mi ignite damage is like 10% (of the total) less than other fire mages even having more mastery, what im doing wrong?

Unless your tanks are intentionally tanking bosses outside of ignite range(which they probably aren't) I think your issue may be play-style. Things like running conflag on avatar can hurt your dps in my experience. IIRC icy-veins has a good section explaining the nature and usage of firestarter.

I suggest referencing some guides, such as icy-veins, and also looking at top parses for fire on heroic and seeing what talents/techniques they use. Perhaps a tips and tricks for ToS thread would help, and you could start one on this forum(I would be happy to post my experiences). I think you will be surprised, as you start to parse better your ignite percentage will also start to rise. After a point, repetition(along with getting involved in the mage community) increases dps more than gear in my experience, anyway.

[Sylvaeres]

I am quite confused about the stat priority for Fire I must say. I've always gone crit->mastery and Noxxic still lists this as being the priority. Now, when you go to Icyveins, they are now saying that crit is literally my worst stat. What the hell? https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fire-m...-stat-priority

Noxxic is a dead site. Never ever ever even look at it again

[Deleted]

Please, please, please NEVER go to noxxic. It is a terrible website which has no idea what to talk about. Please never read anything from it. It has wrong pretty much everything.

Now, for you, the first thing to check is indeed icy veins. After that, go to altered time, altered-time.com/forum/ , which is a mage forum.

Lastly, go to raidbots.com , go to stat weights, import your character either from the armory menu given there, or from using the simcraft addon and pasting it in the second menu, and generate stat weights. These will be the most precise stats you should go for. Keep in mind that stat weights change when you get or lose a tier set bonus or even if you change one piece of gear.

I actually used Noxxic before. Thank for posting this!