If they announce legacy servers at Blizzcon, would you play them?

[Ielenia]

What you said and what you meant are conflicting with each other.

In that scenario, Legacy is not Free as you are describing. For it to share a WoW sub, it means it is not Free; it costs a SUB itself. What you are paying for with a WoW subscription is access to WoW Current as well as WoW Legacy. In that example, the Return of Investment comes from the WoW Sub. It's not free.

Here's the possible scenarios in that idea:

One, the sub fee stays the same. That means the Legacy WoW game is leeching off the Retail WoW's subscription earnings that we cannot opt out of. That is, in my opinion, unacceptable.

Two, the sub fee increases in price. Here we have then two possibilities: either you can opt out of Legacy WoW and have your sub fee be like it always have been; or you can't opt out of, forcing you to pay for Legacy WoW, a game you have no interest in. Option #1 is acceptable, option #2 is not.

If you disagree with that business model, of course you can choose to unsub. You can also complain. But by no means does that mean you are able to dictate any control over where your Sub money actually goes, despite it being your concern.

Oh, I will, and I will. But I don't think I ever said that I have the right to dictate how Blizzard spends that money. I believe I only spoke about protesting and voicing my displeasure.

Then let me pose a scenario here.

Your sub also goes into making 1-20 free for all players. If people choose to play twinks at 1-20 for free and you don't like that, what would you do about it? Unsub and complain until they remove it?

First, let me remind you that the 'free 1-20' comes with several drawbacks, like being unable to form groups (but you can join one), unable to use the mail box, and unable to whisper players (unless they whisper you first). I believe there are more drawbacks, but those are the most glaring ones I remember.

With that in mind, I find it very hard that a player would 'twink' at that level, but assuming he does... so what? They're still playing retail World of Warcraft. It's a feature of the main game.

As a second question; what value is lost to you if Legacy servers are added with no added cost to your subs? What was made inferior?

WoW subs (along with all other Blizzard game earnings) are used to support their respective games, and fund new expansions and/or projects, but there's a caveat here: those expansions and/or projects are expected to return a sizable profit. What profit is there in adding Legacy Wow to the WoW sub without increasing it and/or allowing players to opt out of it?

It would make much more sense, business-wise, to either have it be 'buy-to-play' like Overwatch and Diablo 3, or have its own subscription fee. Or, at the very least, increase the WoW subscription fee price but also allow players to opt out of that so that they continue to pay the same amount they always have.

[Tic Tacs]

I think it would make more sense if it was an additional fee for Legacy on top of a normal sub or a separate fee for playing on those realms. I just don't like the idea of the realms being free and sub money from retail players being funneled into those realms.

I'm confused, as a consumer, you actually want to pay more for the game. Who is paying your monthly sub now if you don't mind me asking?

[Kyanion]

OK, thanks for the clarity. I'm not hung up on where subscription money goes. Money is fungible at Blizzard. They take it in and budgets are allocated. Some part of our subscription right now is paying for development on any number of projects that we don't know about and in some cases may never know about or see. Software projects get abandoned frequently enough with the investment considered a write-off. We contributed a lot to Titan for all those years and that never made it out of the barn as Titan.

No one should be under the impression that revenue for X goes strictly back into investment to improve or expand X. That's not how it works.

I think it is known that sub money isn't directly going to WoW only. It is just the impression that it would leave to me (and others) that if Legacy was released it would be tacked on to Retail Subs as if Legacy couldn't handle a sub on its own or generate income on its own.

[zknm7]

BECAUSE IT IS A FACT! Retail wow is simply not as good as what vanilla was! how can you not agree or see reason in this

It's not a "fact." You really seem to have a hard time differentiating between your own opinions and fact-based reality. It's a FACT that you BELIEVE that Retail WoW isn't as good as Vanilla WoW, but it isn't a hard FACT that is WAS in fact better. What is so hard for you to grasp about that? It amuses me that you bash Legion, when your only experience of it is admittedly from a trial account, which doesn't let you experience it at all, really, and yet you fully draw your conclusions of the current game from that VERY limited experience, and then you have the nerve to bash people who never played Vanilla and who aren't even necessarily disagreeing with you, but rather just pointing out the flaws in your logic. You're kind of slow, aren't you?

[Deleted]

Legacy WoW, if made to leech from the retail WoW sub, would not have any form of return revenue, and I imagine that pro-legacy supporters would not want micro-transactions in the game. God knows the retail game already has enough people complaining about a cosmetic cash shop.

More on the point, I imagine there would be a big backlash from players if Legacy WoW was made entirely free or made part of retail WoW's sub fee. Because that meant they're maintaining a version of the game they have no interest in playing.

I think a similar analogy would be if the money you're paying monthly to NetFlix suddenly also started being used to support a free, similar service that aired only shows for kids of age up to four. And no, I'm not using that analogy to call legacy supporters 'babies', just using it as an example as a service you would not use, but you're now being forced to support and maintain. "But you don't have to use it", yeah, I'll be paying for it, anyways.

Yes i uderstood right then.
If legacy is free it would mean that their costs would be taken from retail WoW. Like services and server costs.
I get this part because it means that it would bring little revenue to Blizzard. I get it, solid claim (even though i think there would be many returning players)

What i don't get is your agument that it could piss people off.
It's an added free feature. Sure maybe you won't use it ever but is still an added feature for free? How can someone complain?
You, as a customer are not paying more?
Is a situation of "i don't like where my money is going" and is a little bit ridiculous because you are not paying a dime more than usual.

[Kyanion]

I'm confused, as a consumer, you actually want to pay more for the game. Who is paying your monthly sub now if you don't mind me asking?

I want people that play Legacy to pay an additional fee to play it or a separate sub fee for that game only. I'd rather not have it tied to having a retail sub and being free. I know I'm being picky about it but I just want Legacy to stand on its own if it is going to happen. That is the point isn't it? If Legacy is so good and would generate income as people have claimed then why would it need to be tacked on to a retail sub?

And to answer your other question I've not paid for my own sub since MoP and pet trading was a thing. I traded pets for Bnet Balance all the time. And when Bnet for gold came out I just use that, I always have 350 in Bnet on my account and 10 tokens in my inventory. I'm paid up for a few years. So my threat of cancelling my sub is mostly a nearly empty one because if I unsubbed it would just pause the account's game time or something. I've had tons of gold since TBC where I made a killing in the JC market and I've had millions to burn since MoP.

[clevin]

I'm confused, as a consumer, you actually want to pay more for the game. Who is paying your monthly sub now if you don't mind me asking?

No, they're saying that people who want legacy should pay for it. I would be against a higher sub fee that I couldn't opt out of. I'd be for an additional sub fee for legacy. Like this:

$15: Retail
$15 + $N: Retail plus access to one Legacy expansion.
$15 + $2N: Retail plus access to two Legacy expansions.

etc. So if they released, say, vanilla, TBC and Wrath at the same time, you'd pay $3n (whatever N ends up being). Want just TBC? You'd pay retail + $n. The base fee would always start at $15 so f you didn't want retail, then your first legacy expansion fee is $15.

Let the whining commence.

[Kyanion]

It's not a "fact." You really seem to have a hard time differentiating between your own opinions and fact-based reality. It's a FACT that you BELIEVE that Retail WoW isn't as good as Vanilla WoW, but it isn't a hard FACT that is WAS in fact better. What is so hard for you to grasp about that? It amuses me that you bash Legion, when your only experience of it is admittedly from a trial account, which doesn't let you experience it at all, really, and yet you fully draw your conclusions of the current game from that VERY limited experience, and then you have the nerve to bash people who never played Vanilla and who aren't even necessarily disagreeing with you, but rather just pointing out the flaws in your logic. You're kind of slow, aren't you?

Hell I think someone found an armory of his and he in fact played Legion briefly, got 110 and never did anything. Even his feats of strength didn't have much to do with Vanilla.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post47749717 was his armory and http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post47749758 was the callout.

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It's an added free feature. Sure maybe you won't use it ever but is still an added feature for free? How can someone complain?

Because it isn't free. Someone is having to pay for Legacy realms, gms, servers and so on. And that would be retail players getting tabbed to do it because apparently Legacy couldn't pay for itself despite being SOOOOO in demand.

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No, they're saying that people who want legacy should pay for it. I would be against a higher sub fee that I couldn't opt out of. I'd be for an additional sub fee for legacy. Like this:

$15: Retail
$15 + $N: Retail plus access to one Legacy expansion.
$15 + $2N: Retail plus access to two Legacy expansions.

etc. So if they released, say, vanilla, TBC and Wrath at the same time, you'd pay $3n (whatever N ends up being). Want just TBC? You'd pay retail + $n. The base fee would always start at $15 so f you didn't want retail, then your first legacy expansion fee is $15.

Let the whining commence.

And I'd be totally fine if people didn't want to pay for retail and there was an option for people to pay for JUST Legacy realms even if it was less than the 15 amount, I don't really care as long as Legacy is paying its own way. At the same time I dread Legacy because of pets/mounts and other cross-game promotions getting tied to Legacy. That would suck.

[Deleted]

Because it isn't free. Someone is having to pay for Legacy realms, gms, servers and so on. And that would be retail players getting tabbed to do it because apparently Legacy couldn't pay for itself despite being SOOOOO in demand.

Or maybe it was Overwatch who payed for legacy services.
Or maybe Hearthstone.

You never know

[Kyanion]

Or maybe it was Overwatch who payed for legacy services.
Or maybe Hearthstone.

You never know

And Overwatch and Hearthstone generate money on their own. Can Legacy do the same? Sure is not seeming like it.

[Charge me Doctor]

I was just adressing the point of Ielenia of "I'm paying Blizzard to play and support WoW, not to also support a game I have no interest whatsoever to even install in my hard drives".

As for legacy "piggybacking" on retail. I'm sure Blizzard will find a way to make money out of legacy servers.
And don't forget the "returning players" who have no interest in retail. Those are new subscribers that Blizzard didnt have before.

Usually, when you pay for WoW, you pay into WoWs "pocket". It's still in blizzard, but starcraft dev team doesn't get these money without really good reason, that they have to formulate and pass to ceo lead wow dev for approve. If all of them agree - then they can borrow these money. That's how usually things are done in other companies.
So if you pay for WoW - your money goes directly into wow, you don't pay for anything else from blizzard, but their general utilities

[Tic Tacs]

I want people that play Legacy to pay an additional fee to play it or a separate sub fee for that game only. I'd rather not have it tied to having a retail sub and being free. I know I'm being picky about it but I just want Legacy to stand on its own if it is going to happen. That is the point isn't it? If Legacy is so good and would generate income as people have claimed then why would it need to be tacked on to a retail sub?

And to answer your other question I've not paid for my own sub since MoP and pet trading was a thing. I traded pets for Bnet Balance all the time. And when Bnet for gold came out I just use that, I always have 350 in Bnet on my account and 10 tokens in my inventory. I'm paid up for a few years. So my threat of cancelling my sub is mostly a nearly empty one because if I unsubbed it would just pause the account's game time or something. I've had tons of gold since TBC where I made a killing in the JC market and I've had millions to burn since MoP.

Blizzard gets $20 when you buy game tokens from auction house. So, technically, someone overpaid $5.

Do you know that you can easily find a job cleaning tables for around $10/hour, which means you can buy 10 game tokens in a day easy, right?

Regarding legacy servers.

How are you going to sell mounts, pets and boost services on legacy servers? Are legacy servers going to affect these sales? Activision Blizzard is a public company.

How many people are going to play on legacy servers and pay monthly fee? Remember, all the private servers are free.

Why waste resources on something that may or may not end up as a huge fail? What happens when Naxx40 is cleared and most people are geared to the max? How will this affect current game? Is making Vanilla servers going to make private server community decline and eventually die hence less exposure to the game?

Personally, I think having Vanilla servers doesn't hurt anyone as long as they have resources to implement them. Would I play? Well, depends... even if Vanilla servers become popular I just don't see how I can keep playing them when I rich max level, gear cap. I'm sure they will make Vanilla servers eventually when WoW sub numbers goes below certain threshold but most likely not in the next few years.

[Kyanion]

Blizzard gets $20 when you buy game tokens from auction house. So, technically, someone overpaid $5.

Do you know that you can easily find a job cleaning tables for around $10/hour, which means you can buy 10 game tokens in a day easy, right?

Yup I'm well aware how Bnet tokens work, thanks.

What does the 2nd part have to do with anything? I have over 20 million gold, I'll never have to pay from anything from Blizz again. So what does having a job bussing tables have to do with this?

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How are you going to sell mounts, pets and boost services on legacy servers? Are legacy servers going to affect these sales? Activision Blizzard is a public company.

How many people are going to play on legacy servers and pay monthly fee? Remember, all the private servers are free.

Why waste resources on something that may or may not end up as a huge fail? What happens when Naxx40 is cleared and most people are geared to the max? How will this affect current game? Is making Vanilla servers going to make private server community decline and eventually die hence less exposure to the game?

Personally, I think having Vanilla servers doesn't hurt anyone as long as they have resources to implement them. Would I play? Well, depends... even if Vanilla servers become popular I just don't see how I can keep playing them when I rich max level, gear cap. I'm sure they will make Vanilla servers eventually when WoW sub numbers goes below certain threshold but most likely not in the next few years.

I think Legacy servers are a terrible idea as long as retail is putting out new content and expansions. Sure, do whatever when WoW is not getting another expansion. I think Legacy servers COULD hurt retail if they come out and nosedive into the ground in a matter of months. But for the sake of this argument, if Legacy was to happen I just want it to pay its own way where if people want to play it they can pay a sub for it or an additional fee if they already have retail.

[Tic Tacs]

I have over 20 million gold, I'll never have to pay from anything from Blizz again. So what does having a job bussing tables have to do with this?

How many characters do you have because that's sounds like alot of gold for a single character?

[Ielenia]

What i don't get is your agument that it could piss people off.
It's an added free feature. Sure maybe you won't use it ever but is still an added feature for free? How can someone complain?
You, as a customer are not paying more?
Is a situation of "i don't like where my money is going" and is a little bit ridiculous because you are not paying a dime more than usual.

It's a sentiment of having my money that I am paying on the exclusive intent of supporting WoW is now also being used to to support Legacy as well. For example, the 15 dollars I pay, instead of the 15 going all to WoW, now is having part of it being leeched to Legacy, like 10 to WoW, 5 to Legacy. WoW would not only be getting less money from us, but also part of our money would be used to support something we did not agree with, and is returning no revenue to Blizzard. (hence the 'leech' term).

Yeah, it's "free" but with a caveat: retail won't be getting as much support from your money as it used to be. Because now Blizzard has a money sinkhole that constantly sucks off money without giving anything back.

[Kyanion]

How many characters do you have because that's sounds like alot of gold for a single character?

I hardly play any of my alts, I just was at the right place at the right time in TBC. I was picked to be my guild's JC when the expansion launched so I had a lot of Vanilla materials to burn through before I really hit TBC. I was on a smaller server at the time and I just became the go to guy to get gems at a fair price. I refused to overcharge people and I let people donate whatever they wanted for a gem cut even if it meant I got nothing. When my friends and I moved from the realm near the tail end of TBC each friend of mine had to carry the allotted gold cap with them so I could have almost all of my gold on our new realm. On my new realm I viewed the competition on the AH as my form of PvP and I enjoyed it. I just was really good at playing the AH with JC/ENC.

In MoP I added pet trading to the list and that is what really kept me playing for a large chunk of MoP until I decided to raid again. I got to meet people at Blizzcon near the end of MoP that I had been talking/trading with for a while and that was really cool. But anyways, that isn't a lot of gold to some people anymore with how much gold people make from selling mythic mount runs and the like.

[Tic Tacs]

I hardly play any of my alts, I just was at the right place at the right time in TBC. I was picked to be my guild's JC when the expansion launched so I had a lot of Vanilla materials to burn through before I really hit TBC. I was on a smaller server at the time and I just became the go to guy to get gems at a fair price. I refused to overcharge people and I let people donate whatever they wanted for a gem cut even if it meant I got nothing. When my friends and I moved from the realm near the tail end of TBC each friend of mine had to carry the allotted gold cap with them so I could have almost all of my gold on our new realm. On my new realm I viewed the competition on the AH as my form of PvP and I enjoyed it. I just was really good at playing the AH with JC/ENC.

In MoP I added pet trading to the list and that is what really kept me playing for a large chunk of MoP until I decided to raid again. I got to meet people at Blizzcon near the end of MoP that I had been talking/trading with for a while and that was really cool. But anyways, that isn't a lot of gold to some people anymore with how much gold people make from selling mythic mount runs and the like.

I don't understand why would you invest so much time into selling pets and various profession materials when you can clearly afford selling game tokens on auction for around 200,000 gold a pop easy. Can you explain?

[Kyanion]

I don't understand why would you invest so much time into auction house selling pets and various profession materials when you can clearly afford selling game tokens on auction for around 200,000 gold a pop easy. Can you explain?

As I said it was my form of PvP, I enjoyed the competition on the AH. I had plenty of time to burn in between my raiding and it was a way to kill some time. *shrugs* Why do people PvP all day or play alts all day? It is what they like to do. And I had no reason to ever sell tokens on the AH because by the time they had come out I was already well ahead in the Bnet game and had millions of gold on top of it.

[Kithelle]

It's not a "fact." You really seem to have a hard time differentiating between your own opinions and fact-based reality. It's a FACT that you BELIEVE that Retail WoW isn't as good as Vanilla WoW, but it isn't a hard FACT that is WAS in fact better. What is so hard for you to grasp about that? It amuses me that you bash Legion, when your only experience of it is admittedly from a trial account, which doesn't let you experience it at all, really, and yet you fully draw your conclusions of the current game from that VERY limited experience, and then you have the nerve to bash people who never played Vanilla and who aren't even necessarily disagreeing with you, but rather just pointing out the flaws in your logic. You're kind of slow, aren't you?

A typical Vanilla Zealot for you, so out of touch with reality while donning their rose colored glasses. Lie through through their teeth, sometimes I wonder if they're so delusional they believe their own lies.

[Ielenia]

A typical Vanilla Zealot for you, so out of touch with reality while donning their rose colored glasses. Lie through through their teeth, sometimes I wonder if they're so delusional they believe their own lies.

It's Havokk. It's my firm belief that he doesn't care one way or the other about retail or legacy WoW, and he just craves attention so he likes to prod people with his inflammatory posts in the hopes someone gives him the time of day and responds to him as if he's serious about it.