Kevin Spacey apologizes after allegations of sexual misconduct

[Xecks]

According to the story, Spacey was working on Broadway with the accuser who he befriended and then invited to the party at Spacey's apartment in NY. They knew each other through work, so it isn't like picking up a rando at a bar. Then again, many people are of the opinion that there are different standards among gay people, and it is a common occurrence for older gay men to go after much younger partners; George Takei and Milo Yianopolis also recounted stories of sex at 14 years old with 20+ year old men.

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You have to admit though, having a society has an insurmountable survival advantage over not having a society, from an evolutionary standpoint. If the world was suddenly to fall into chaos, the first groups to form into an organization with some degree of social trust would very quickly wipe out or enslave all of the nearby savages. Forming a society is the best strategy for survival if you are a human, if you are a tyrannosaurus then perhaps you can argue otherwise.

heh at the gay bar i used to go to with my gay friend they would let 16 year old kids in who were allowed to drink and make out with much MUCH older gentlemen.

[Venant]

heh at the gay bar i used to go to with my gay friend they would let 16 year old kids in who were allowed to drink and make out with much MUCH older gentlemen.

There are many important questions that society needs to seek answers to, like how society should view having sex with 11 year olds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/o...nt-france.html

PARIS — Last Tuesday, France woke up to news reports that a 28-year-old man and an 11-year-old girl had had “consensual” sex.

The events, first reported by the website Mediapart, took place on April 24 in the Paris suburb of Montmagny. That afternoon, the child followed a man, who had already approached her twice in the previous days, telling her he “could teach her how to kiss and more.” They went to his building, where she performed oral sex in the hallway. Then she followed him to his apartment, where they had sexual intercourse. Afterward, he told her not to talk to anybody about it, kissed her on the forehead and asked to see her again.

On her way back home, the girl called her mother in a state of panic, realizing what had just happened. “Papa is going to think I’m a slut,” she said. The mother immediately called the police and pressed charges for rape. But citing Article 227-25 of the French criminal code, the public prosecutor stated that “there had been no violence, no coercion, no threat, no surprise,” and therefore, the man would be charged only with “sexual infraction.” That offense is punishable by five years in prison, while rape entails 20 years of imprisonment when the victim is under 15.

The trial was supposed to start last Tuesday, but it was postponed to February. Meantime, the story caught fire across the country. The widespread outrage put me in mind of the Jacqueline Sauvage case, in which a battered woman who shot her husband in the back in 2012 ended up getting 10 years of prison (a harsh sentence for France). The verdict prompted wrathful comments from pundits, politicians and the public about the French justice system failing to deliver justice to society’s most vulnerable. (Ms. Sauvage was pardoned and released last year.)

What shocked many French people most of all was not the encounter itself, but that there was a legal possibility of labeling it anything other than rape. If legal norms reflect a society’s mores, what does this say about France? Petitions started circulating, and politicians would soon echo them: The law must change.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Of course none of us will know for sure...I think that coming out publicly in the same sentence that you're stating that "you don't remember" seems like deflecting.

Is it possible he is just trying to be sincere and honest?

Jesus, if MMO-C "intuition" on crimes could only be used to decide criminal cases. They would just read a buzzfeed article and then decide the fate of a person.

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a real question has to be asked why a 14yo was involved in an alcohol fueled blackout like where are the parents??? Definitely a lapse of judgement on Spaceys part but why is a 14yo anywhere near that in the first place???

And again i'm not condoning it but its like what we have seen lately in the courts where states have passed laws protecting people who pick up say a chick at the bar and she turns out to be 14 lying about her age and sneaking into an 18+ establishment.... If this had been an 18 or even 17yo it wouldn't be an issue... IDK i mean its bad but he's not a pedo and people acting like it are lol.

I'm sure in this case that Spacey knew his age.

[anyaka21]

Of course none of us will know for sure...I think that coming out publicly in the same sentence that you're stating that "you don't remember" seems like deflecting.

I'm not sure how it's deflecting. Basically coming out and apologizing about something he supposedly doesn't remember, which is attempting to do something to a 14yr old male, basically means he's gay or bi. Denying that while accepting responsibility would be more deflection that admitting he's gay and/or bi.

I'm not defending Spacey's actions, just that all the backlash from the gay community on his coming out is absurd. This probably isn't the way he wanted to come out, but by accepting responsibility for his actions, he's coming out anyways.

[Paranoid Android]

Great statement from The Twitter.

2017: When a fictional president is held to a higher standard than the actual President. https://t.co/1u6qTLQhNw

https://twitter.com/MillenPolitics/s...29836330446848

[Jtbrig7390]

I think we should all be very careful and not try and crucify this man who is an extremely apologetic and redeemable figure who has done more good than bad.

Doesn't matter if he was apologetic or not, Hes a pedo and should be treated as such.

Doesn't matter that he did this to a boy over a girl.

Edit: To be clear if 100% true.

[The Oblivion]

Doesn't matter if he was apologetic or not, Hes a pedo and should be treated as such.

Doesn't matter that he did this to a boy over a girl.

Edit: To be clear if 100% true.

well he didnt actually do anything, so no. lol

[Jtbrig7390]

well he didnt actually do anything, so no. lol

You do realize trying to is a crime right? If its proven for a 100% fact he tried to do something with a 14 year old, He should be punished like anyone else.

If it can't be proven then it can't be punished.

[The Oblivion]

You do realize trying to is a crime right? If its proven for a 100% fact he tried to do something with a 14 year old, He should be punished like anyone else.

If it can't be proven then it can't be punished.

nope, with what we have now info wise, no crime. it would never hold up. until the accuser says what he actually tried and not vague BS statements, this is all rather pointless and seems like a D lister trying to jump on the current trend.

[Jtbrig7390]

nope, with what we have now info wise, no crime. it would never hold up. until the accuser says what he actually tried and not vague BS statements, this is all rather pointless and seems like a D lister trying to jump on the current trend.

Kinda why I said if it can be proven to be 100% true.

It likely can't so all of this is really pointless.

[Hooked]

#lockhimup

[Yizu]

Why would you go to the person who did it to you?

If someone tries to murder you, are you going to go back to them to talk it out? Most people wouldn't.

LOL its not murder. And im pretty sure that gay boy was promiscuous @ 14, what is he even doing there at that age. He even used the word "tried" to seduce him. Please. All he did was ruin house of cards for me.

[Deleted]

Doesn't make me think any less of Spacey. So in his 20s when drunk at a party he tried to bang a teen who said no, and Spacey respected that. I don't have a problem with any part of that.

Would you give me the same leeway if i molested a 14 year old girl at a party?

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He said it before he was in office, which means you should have known about it.

Bill Clinton being a terrible person does not make Trump a better person. Trump still sexualized his daughters (among other things), and you still supported him. No amount of deflection is going to change that.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

We shall see if more people come out and speak out against Spacey.

Explain to me how he supposedly sexualized his own daughters? Sounds like slander to me.

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He said it before he was in office, which means you should have known about it.

Bill Clinton being a terrible person does not make Trump a better person. Trump still sexualized his daughters (among other things), and you still supported him. No amount of deflection is going to change that.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

We shall see if more people come out and speak out against Spacey.

Explain to me how he supposedly sexualized his own daughters? Sounds like slander to me.

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Depends on your definition of terms. Most people would agree that individuals who have not hit puberty are children. The vast majority of males have hit puberty by 14. Therefore, not a child. You saying 'end of discussion' doesn't change that, obviously.

If you want to make the argument that 14 is still too young, go for it. But putting emphasis on the idea that this individual is a child is just another fallacious argument from emotion.



Well, for starters, a hug is not physically damaging in the majority of cases. I think most people would agree there. So let's talk about psychological damage. People often assume that any sort of sexual interaction with people below, I don't know, 16 (in the US; probably lower in Europe and other regions of the world) are inherently damaging. This assumption has a grain of truth but is often distorted so people can find a common moral high ground from which they can exorcise their moral opponents and reaffirm their own morality, as you and others are doing here (maybe not with explicit intent, but that's how it ends up working). That grain of truth is founded in the risk that these kinds of sexual interactions can have - uninformed individuals can be taken advantage of because they don't yet have a feel for the parameters of normalcy which they would be able to use to protect themselves. This risk is inherent, but does not manifest into damage in every case. Unfortunately, people like you enjoy generalizing this risk to realized damage. In the process, you victimize people who may not feel damaged themselves, and remove their agency which further destroys their ability to internalize events that they are told are on par with murder in terms of moral value. Conversely if these types of interactions were considered the norm, such damage would be rare, as is seen in several tribal communities where homosexual behavior between juveniles and adults is practiced by close to 100% of the population, and these behaviors are propagated through generations.

But don't misunderstand me. The psychological damage is real, in some cases. Particularly those cases where the aggressor is driven only by self-interest, though these cases aren't always damaging either. We should be careful to assume what people feel, though, especially in lieu of any substantial data.

Also, I find it kind of funny that you think you've formed culture-independent opinions here when you adhere so strongly to cultural norms that we know can shift.

I'll share a story.
At my parents summer house when i was around 26 or so we rented out one of the cottages to two sisters. One 19 and one 13. Me and my friend had been chillin with them the whole day and made good friends. Later that night me and my friend went out to a night club and the girls stayed home.

When i came home at around 2:30 the girls were in the main building playing pool. We started talking a bit and i was quite drunk. The older sister excused her self and went to sleep, as soon as that happened the 13 year old girl went up to me, put one hand on my dick and the other around my neck and pulled me down for a long hard kiss. For some reason i went along with the kiss longer than what would have been proper but came to my senses and ended it. She was 13 but she was certainly not pre pubescent and she was gagging for it. I remember contemplating doing it but decided against it and went to sleep alone.

Lets just say it opened my eyes a little bit. But the thing is even if young women do want to sleep with older guys (they do) it is up to us to have the judgment to put a stop to it.
That being said i'm pretty sure the girl would not have suffered any ills from it and frankly i would probably have been a better lay than what she had access to back home from her peers but it just didn't feel right.

[Vaelorian]

If not more information regarding spacey comes out (so apart from the 14 year old) that he was bad vs other males/females, I don't really care.
At this point, anyone who wants to accuse someone right now, be it true or false will be heard. And consequently the one "responsible" is punished by all society. Everything in the media and public opinion is regarded as being absolutely true. And this is just because of #metoo. Fuck that man.

[Louisa Bannon]

Did he actually do anything illegal? from what i gathered a 14 year old (at the time) believed Kevin spacey was coming onto him but nothing physical actually happened.

The phrase "assault and battery" arises because both elements are criminal in nature - one is sort of the intent, and the latter the act. But assault is simply an "attempt to initiate harmful or offensive contact with a person, or a threat to do so. It is distinct from battery, which refers to the actual achievement of such contact." See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault

Spacey may be guilty of both as physical contact is alleged by the victim and Spacey does not deny it. I think what Spacey did was bad. But I don't think he deserves to have endless shit heaped on him for what is basically small potatoes. I don't know for example if Spacey knew that Rapp was only 14, and that's a factor here. Spacey was older, but not by that much either. He was drunk, he made his move, there was some physical contact of a sexual nature (as alleged), he was rebuffed, the victim left and was absolutely free to do so. Spacey did not force himself on Rapp. End of story.

There could be lots more to this story but there isn't because nothing really happened. I do understand that even the very little that did happen was probably a kind of sexual assault against a minor. But Rapp's story is vague on what exactly happened, and he is very clear that it was more about being propositioned and then allowed to leave.

I have lots of issues with all of this because the more I find out about Spacey the more I think its possible he is himself a victim in the cycle of abuse. This does not excuse his behavior but it does explain it. It is said that the only normal relationship he has is that with his mother, which to me is very sad. Spacey is kind of fucked here. He did a small, inexcusable thing many years ago and it has now been revealed at a time when he's not likely to receive any sympathy whatever. It's also possible that he is a repeat offender on some basis, and that this is so because he and his older brother were themselves abused. Rapp's story isn't really as interesting as the string of other allegations and rumors swirling around Spacey. Spacey probably needs to get help. My best guess is that Spacey is a sad and lonely fellow - damaged goods incapable of real relationships or even a little true happiness.

I don't see Rapp as a hero here. He sure waited until the most convenient time to come up with this story. I remain vexed by his motives, but I still see him as the victim. I just don't think it amounts to so very much.

I don't see any good guys or really any bad guys here in any of this. No heroes. No villains twirling the handlebars of their mustaches. I see sad people on the fringes of accepted sexual behavior trying to find their way.

Small story: Once when my brother and I were teenagers, we walked to the local mall where an adult man said something to him. I was slightly ahead, so I looked back at them. They had some sort of exchange but it ended quickly. A few minutes later I asked him, "What was that all about?" He replied that the man had propositioned him. Young, stupid, and slightly outraged I think I said something like, "We should go back there and kick that faggot's ass!" My brother smiled at me and said, "Look, he was polite. It's more like a compliment. Nothing happened. I'm not interested, that ends it." All these years later I can see that my brother was good-looking in a George Harrison sort of way. He was a track star in high school and had no real trouble with the ladies. He probably got lots of attention all of the time and thought nothing of it. Today that man's offer would probably be deemed inappropriate and a type of criminal sexual assault against a minor (the attempt type). My brother was not bothered by it at all, and I suspect that except for my outburst literally never thought about it again. It is in this way that I realized that the vast majority of gay people did not represent any form of danger to me. I had choices of my own to make and the offers of others did not have to seem like insults even if their attention was unwanted. One says "No thank you" and simply moves on, unperturbed.

In truth, I am not so sure that this whole story isn't more or less just like that - a mountain out of a molehill. Rapp, if he chooses, might still be able to press charges criminally or in civil court.

Spacey needs to get help, if a man of his years can be helped - and to stop behaving badly. At the same time I don't think its time to bring out the pitchforks and torches just yet. Until I hear about more serious offenses, this is small time shit unworthy of anyone's time.

[Vaelorian]

I'll share a story.
At my parents summer house when i was around 26 or so we rented out one of the cottages to two sisters. One 19 and one 13. Me and my friend had been chillin with them the whole day and made good friends. Later that night me and my friend went out to a night club and the girls stayed home.

When i came home at around 2:30 the girls were in the main building playing pool. We started talking a bit and i was quite drunk. The older sister excused her self and went to sleep, as soon as that happened the 13 year old girl went up to me, put one hand on my dick and the other around my neck and pulled me down for a long hard kiss. For some reason i went along with the kiss longer than what would have been proper but came to my senses and ended it. She was 13 but she was certainly not pre pubescent and she was gagging for it. I remember contemplating doing it but decided against it and went to sleep alone.

Lets just say it opened my eyes a little bit. But the thing is even if young women do want to sleep with older guys (they do) it is up to us to have the judgment to put a stop to it.
That being said i'm pretty sure the girl would not have suffered any ills from it and frankly i would probably have been a better lay than what she had access to back home from her peers but it just didn't feel right.

I thought this happened only to me. I was DJ/animator at a holiday park for a while. I was not 26 but 19 at the time with a girlfriend even. One of the guests was a 13 year old girl who was pretty hot. During her holiday there she regularly came to whatever I was doing. She then forced her way unto my lap and started "bouncing" on it like... you know. Grabbed my hands and pulled them towards her chest. This was one incident and happened in mere seconds. I was stunned. Then a few days later she wanted to slow dance with me and at the end she wanted a "goodbye kiss". I thought nothing of it, it was a very public place and a goodbye kiss I gave to most girls there on the cheek. It was normal at the time. And I knew my actual girlfriend was standing right next to her. I did not know that she was looking the other way at the time. But thankfully she did... She then forced her tongue into my mouth even. I was flabbergasted. Honestly did not know what to do.
I remember that for the first 0.5 seconds I actually went along with it kissing back as my girlfriend and me did that stuff regularly and she was near. I don't know. And then realized who I was kissing there. It was fucked up. My actual girlfriend never saw, but I came "clean" that same night and told her the whole story. She was shocked but still happy I told her. Never bad was between me and my girlfriend.

A few months later... the girl found my address for some reason. I remember giving away my address to someone else. Perhaps she got it from that person. And she wrote to me that she was never kissed like that and wanted more. You have to realize that my address was still my parents address. So my mom freaked out as the letter was not in an envelop. Turns out that girl lived in the same city as me and walked to my home to put it in the mailbox. Thankfully I could calm my mom down. Quickly. But was outraged at her for thinking I was responsible. I might have been very naive, very naive, but to this day I do not feel responsible at all.

...... never saw her again.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I don't see Rapp as a hero here. He sure waited until the most convenient time to come up with this story. I remain vexed by his motives, but I still see him as the victim. I just don't think it amounts to so very much.

I'm curious about this as well. Whats the point in bring this up now, to Buzzfeed?

[willemh]

(Sexual) assault is always wrong, in any way or form. We as society should always condemn this behavior in the strongest way possible, so signal that behavior like this is NOT okay.

However, when it comes to individuals, we can't do anything but hold on to innocent until proven guilty. I seriously prefer this over the alternative (some witch-hunt practices).

[Louisa Bannon]

I feel like this is the part a lot of people are missing. Regardless of how certain people have acted or what their mental state was in their own lives at 14, it's still illegal for an adult to have any sexual encounter with them. 14, in many countries, is just as much of a child in the eyes of the law as an 8 year old.

I think we all get that part just fine.

Romeo and Juliet were probably something like 16 or 17 for Romeo and Juliet is specifically stated as being 13 about to turn 14. In the bard's tale, they meet, wed, consummate their relationship, and then kill themselves all in under a week's time.

In my own Latino culture we debut a young lady to society at the age of 15. In the U.S. a young lady is debuted at 16. Sweet 16 it is said.

Because of my own cultural background I think the age of consent should be lowered to 15 in every jurisdiction.

FWIW, I've already mentioned in this thread about my acting out sexually when I was 13 and a half with a young lady of my exact age give or take a few months. Her Mormon parents literally flipped the fuck out when they found out. My father was pissed off because the other parents were threatening him with all kinds of stuff. My father actually beat me with a leather belt for over 30 minutes on account of this trouble. My sweet young lover and I were fucking on the living room couch every morning just before school regardless of any of that. I will never forget her, her beauty, her kindness, nor the tenderness of our very young love. Not ever.

I think the outrage over this number 14 is somewhat misplaced. Being outraged about it doesn't change what sexually mature children may be doing with or without the agreement of the law or even your own acquiescence.

[grexly75]

I think we should all be very careful and not try and crucify this man who is an extremely apologetic and redeemable figure who has done more good than bad. I've been on twitter this morning and many people are bashing him for trying to deflect with him coming out as gay.
I even feel bad for him because it was such a long time ago and he cannot remember. There's no right or wrong way to apologise for doing something like this. I think all the holier-than-thou crowd should have several seats and shut up.

Unfortunately that "ship has already sailed" on this as most people have already made their minds in typical knee jerk reaction fashion over this, and they want to crucify him no matter what even if he is innocent..

Say this much would not want to be a celebrity and or a person in the public eye, as there is bound to be someone out there with an axe to grind and just biding their time and waiting till the political/social climate is right..

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(Sexual) assault is always wrong, in any way or form. We as society should always condemn this behavior in the strongest way possible, so signal that behavior like this is NOT okay.

However, when it comes to individuals, we can't do anything but hold on to innocent until proven guilty. I seriously prefer this over the alternative (some witch-hunt practices).

Thing is that no matter what with things like this, a witch hunt is always inevitable and as such it makes it hard for the justice system to give the accused a fair trial if the public have already made up their mind..

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If not more information regarding spacey comes out (so apart from the 14 year old) that he was bad vs other males/females, I don't really care.
At this point, anyone who wants to accuse someone right now, be it true or false will be heard. And consequently the one "responsible" is punished by all society. Everything in the media and public opinion is regarded as being absolutely true. And this is just because of #metoo. Fuck that man.

And this is the big problem, even if Spacey is found innocent the crap has already been thrown by public opinion.. And I think it will be hard for him to ever find work again as people always think negatively of him..