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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    No. They should get rid of barriers, as well as reduce difficulty. Gap between heroic and mythic difficulty is too big.
    At the start it isn't or rarely is. Using ToS as an example the first 3 fights in mythic are probably easier then KJ was. Now things ramp up quickly from there and after nerfs and other changes KJ in heroic probably is easier then any mythic fight. Then again if you aren't getting into mythics until after a wave or 2 of nerfs mythic isn't for you anyways.
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    Everyone saying flex would be too hard to balance: are you saying then that H is not balanced now? Is it somehow harder to balance M than H?
    Min-max guilds would try to find the exact amount of people you need to have it easier, and that would end up benching a lot of people for no reason.. which is not fun for anyone... nobody wants to be benched because 17 people will make the fight easier.

    I however would love if you could make it flexible when it's on farm, because benching people on farm stuff is stupid. Progression I get it, but a boss you have killed a few times, why not.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    No flex, no cross-realm... Yeah, I get that there are reasons for both, but are they worth the difficulty they create for guilds wishing to participate in mythic raiding? How many guilds cleared H weeks ago and are skilled enough to do mythic mechanics, but can't consistently pull the numbers together? Should otherwise happy guilds be pressured to merge/break up/have drama because H has become passé but M feels out of reach?

    If they did decide to change some part of this equation, what should it be?

    at this point in time the content isn't the challenge, it's getting enough people of the same skill range in the same group for 2-3 nights a week to maintain actual progress in mythic content ESPECIALLY on lower populated servers like mine and many others, it's getting out of hand how difficult it is to find people ready for mythic content who can't or won't come to a lower pop realm for obvious reasons.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Mythic raiding did just fine in EN. It fell apart after that when they decided EN was "too easy".

    Maybe they need to reevaluate the value to their business of a raid mode more difficult than M EN.
    EN was a cluster fuck. The fights weren't overly complicated except for maybe 2 of them. Add in the massive over gearing people had from a month of farming mythic dungeons and the place was a shell of what it should have and could have been.
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    No flex, no cross-realm... Yeah, I get that there are reasons for both, but are they worth the difficulty they create for guilds wishing to participate in mythic raiding? How many guilds cleared H weeks ago and are skilled enough to do mythic mechanics, but can't consistently pull the numbers together? Should otherwise happy guilds be pressured to merge/break up/have drama because H has become passé but M feels out of reach?

    If they did decide to change some part of this equation, what should it be?
    The primary argument against flex is this: You could use 30 poeple for, in ToS, the first 3 bosses, do Sisters with as few as possible to minimize stacks, do w/e you wanted on mistress/host, do maiden with as few people as you like then probably 15-16 man Avatar/KJ after funnelling gear in to them. On something like Avatar, it's likely that group size would have to impact the touch of sargeras and final phase rain, both of which need soaking. This would impact raid composition and encourage class stacking even more than they do now, trying to find sweet spots of maximum raid dps and the least practical amount of mechanics to soak.

    NH and ToS mythic have proved that with legendaries, artifact power and titanforging, Blizzard are struggling with raid tuning. Trying to tune it for equal difficulty between 10 and 30 man raids is just impractical, perhaps impossible.

    As people who are only starting to raid mythic this expansion are finding, in regards to gear enabling a smooth curve of progression, titanforging is perhaps the biggest problem for raiding given the huge discrepancy between trinkets and artifact relics. For example, because I got lucky and coined a 945 shadow relic and 955 blood relic, my single target dps was able to keep up with someone playing the same class with +8 ilvl on me. There are too many variables for consistant raiding and would only work if tiers lasted perhaps a year so everyone got plenty of titanforged - but no one wants tiers to last anywhere near that long.

    I feel like some degree of barrier has to be there. There has to be something to differentiate mythic raiding from heroic and I feel that committing to being on the same server as a guild you want to raid with is somewhat representative of that.

  6. #126
    They should just bring Mythic 10 man back imo. Flex for mythic is a no go. But i always hated it requiering 20 people.

    Really sad they decided to do it only 20. But since mythic participation is so low anyway i don't think they will bring 10 man version back. Not worth the effort i guess. And even if the 10 man version would be available again i don't think the numbers in mythic participation would increase that much anyway so again not worth the effort in blizzards eyes i think.

    Still sad for all those small groups that are limited to Heroic content now.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    Thread is about mythic raiding though which is the draw for many people. Sadly most guilds require a strict video game schedule and this explains the falling sub count.
    Any social activity requires a strict schedule. If you play baseball with friends, you can't just show up whenever you want.

    Plus, that's kind of the point, to have fun with friends defeating hard bosses.

  8. #128
    Paid server transfers, ah and M raids are the only reasons different realms exist, a megaserver for pve and one for pvp is possible with today's tech also you can always create separate instances of the same zone in overcrowded areas like in Tera iirc
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Allenschezar View Post
    They should just bring Mythic 10 man back imo..
    If they ever did that it would have to be complete separate raids than 25 man raids.

    So basically the BC model, where you had Karazhan/Zul'aman 10 man and then the others 25 man raids.

    Then again, you'd have people say that the people raiding 20 man have access to more content, and that's the excuse Blizzard has been saying. Personally what I enjoyed about 10 man was that it was the perfect format for alt runs.. it's impossible for us to get 20 people to do a mythic alt run, and Blizzard removed that content from us in WOD.

    I'm also a firm believer that dungeons should be flexible from 5 to 10.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    WHAT IF... They got rid of flex H? Yeah it would cause short term disruption, but players would eventually settle into guilds with 20 teams - i.e., fewer guilds but bigger raid teams - so they wouldn't clear H and be stuck.

    Trying to envision a game where clearing the instance on one difficulty would naturally lead to starting it on the next, without having to leave/break up guilds to do it.
    I just saw this doozy, holy cow. Arm chair devs are the best. I know everyone in my guild would quit if heroic was gone.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Some people will never get it... whatever that number is, the problems will remain the same. You'll have the same issues recruiting because there will be even more groups looking.
    Not really, what people dont get is that mythic raiding isnt that sought after anymore. People can do heroic with their friends instead. Lowering it to 15 will make this alot easier for groups of skilled friends do mythic instead of seeking for larger guild where they don't feel they belong. Its an old game, and people have made friends through the years.

    So no, lowering it will make more groups of those who only do heroic because they dont have the numbers, to do mythic, thus more people will do mythic raiding overall.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2017-10-31 at 05:13 PM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Let's just ignore the fact that this changes nothing for top guilds who have 4-5 raid ready alts to throw at the boss in order to refine their tactics before hopping on their main. Meanwhile this seriously cockblocks the lesser raiders who usually don't even have a Mythic ready alt. Bad suggestion.
    Worked perfectly fine in ICC. And I couldn't give a shit what top guilds do. I've seen countless guilds just throw themselves at bosses until they die and not even look as to what went wrong when they died 10 times in a row to same shit that could have been figured out with a 10 min look at live logs. I believe that limited attempts would force raiders to look at what they are doing to cause a wipe and to "GIT GUD".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felfaadaern Darkterror View Post
    WHAT IF... They got rid of flex H? Yeah it would cause short term disruption, but players would eventually settle into guilds with 20 teams - i.e., fewer guilds but bigger raid teams - so they wouldn't clear H and be stuck.

    Trying to envision a game where clearing the instance on one difficulty would naturally lead to starting it on the next, without having to leave/break up guilds to do it.
    Get rid of Mythic first tbh. Fixed size content is dead these days, it's a relic from an old era. Either people get left out or if some people can't make it, no one raids. Flex is the way forward.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Fixed size content is dead these days, it's a relic from an old era
    Just curious, how many hundreds of thousands of people need to be doing something before you'll stop calling it dead? Or does it even matter what the truth is for you to say whatever you can to try to win your point?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Allenschezar View Post
    They should just bring Mythic 10 man back imo. Flex for mythic is a no go. But i always hated it requiering 20 people.

    Really sad they decided to do it only 20. But since mythic participation is so low anyway i don't think they will bring 10 man version back. Not worth the effort i guess. And even if the 10 man version would be available again i don't think the numbers in mythic participation would increase that much anyway so again not worth the effort in blizzards eyes i think.

    Still sad for all those small groups that are limited to Heroic content now.
    imagine mythic KJ on 10man

    it'd be either hilariously overtuned cos stuff like armageddon would be too many for so few people
    or hilariously easy because the armageddon size would scale with people so you only need like 2-3 people soaking
    get 2-3 rogues in 10man and soaking is basically not part of the fight


    raising it to 20 people gives them more space to design mechanics that would not work well in a 10man environment

    I'd love if there was 10man raiding again, trust me, but it's just not a feasible option

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    imagine mythic KJ on 10man

    it'd be either hilariously overtuned cos stuff like armageddon would be too many for so few people
    or hilariously easy because the armageddon size would scale with people so you only need like 2-3 people soaking
    get 2-3 rogues in 10man and soaking is basically not part of the fight


    raising it to 20 people gives them more space to design mechanics that would not work well in a 10man environment

    I'd love if there was 10man raiding again, trust me, but it's just not a feasible option
    They completely messed up his tuning anyway, it's not like it could get that much worse with 10 people. Also, what you're saying here is "if you stack the hell out of 10 man group, things might be too easy". What a shock, it's not like it's true for any raid size. Stack immunities, top dps, mobility, best tanks... doesn't matter, it improves the odds.

    Besides, I really didn't notice them using 20 mans to make things more creative. If anything, it's more restrictive. We had, what, Blast Furnace with Mind Control? More of a nuisance that could have easily been done in less annoying way. Gul'dan with Spellsteal/Dominate demon? At least it allowed two classes. "Needing" mass grips for several bosses? Better log those DK alts. I really could live without such "creative mechanics".

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Mythic raiding did just fine in EN. It fell apart after that when they decided EN was "too easy".

    Maybe they need to reevaluate the value to their business of a raid mode more difficult than M EN.
    if you really think en wasnt too easy then you have a serious problem with judging difficulty.

  17. #137
    Isn't heroic enough? Isn't +15 mythic dungeons enough? Why do things need to endlessly scale. Listening to some players they'd be happy with a +15 mythic raid. How many people are going to actually do that nonsense.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesmarcus View Post
    No, the barriers are the grind, declining numbers and the pendulum swinging so far in the way of personal responsibility you are either waiting for other people to catch up and single out, or you are the problem. In which case, why not play other similar games that offer a WoW-lite experience to be consumed at your own leisure?

    You can have mythic cross-realm and flex, but until the point of why so many are turned off is addressed, you'll be band-aiding it.
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  19. #139
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    Game made so easy and ppl still complain they should just remove lfr normal and hc so raiding can be what it used to be and they would eliminate the struggle of splitraids too atleast

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Aritra View Post
    Blizzard should combine more low-population servers, I think that would fix a lot of the recruitment issues at the moment.
    .
    Would indeed sort out at least part of that problem. And more people would find out that they're actually not truly cut out for Mythic beyond 3/9 (hey, I include myself there)

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