Rebirth system in WoW

[Deleted]

Would you be in for a rebirth system for WoW?

A lot of MMOs do this. It would be like Mythic + but for open content.

You are max level, so it does not interfere with other social activities such as raiding, and you gain a "rebirth level" and "start" the game again, only this time quests are truly challenging and enemies are much more difficult to kill. You level it at a much slower pace too. You can always go back to your normal progression by talking to some NPC.

What do you people think?

Are you talking about Ragnarok Online system? That would not work on current WoW. WoW is focused on end-game content (raids, M+, pvp...) and lets be honest, the old-world content sucks, you outlevel it so easily it is not even challenging. Rebirth system works well when leveling is actually a challenge and has lore reasons behind, but in reality it is just adding 110+ levels until end-game.

We are far to deep into end-game loop that a system like that wont work.

[Corroc]

But you don't just want the difficulty you also want appropriate rewards. Adding another level of confusion/complexity to a system that deserves to be toned back... like a lot.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=142935/f...onus=3480:1562

224 different fucking variations of the same piece of fucking gear is beyond ridiculous.

If you look closely you can see that the same model is used for different classes and different gear pieces.

[Meiluy]

a much easier fix for that would have just been, well, the paid boosts we have now, and letting people throw gold at large XP boosts to level faster as a gold sink... They get to level quick and the people who like to level alts still have an enjoyable leveling experience.

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https://gfycat.com/BlankDifficultFeline

Don't one shot things, but it's close enough. That's still happening with that monk at lvl 68.

And that's not just without cloths, but no weapons too, which most classes can't even do because they need weapons to use abilities... If I had weapons on I'd probly be able to one shot stuff with rising sun kick.

If I were a new player coming into a game which showed me an experience that boring, I would have quit long before I hit lvl 68.

In that gif, you are fighting a regular mob of one level lower than you in a class which is commonly thought of as overpowered early in leveling... that is not indicative of it being too easy.... you should be regularly fighting groups of two or three mobs while leveling, not going one on one.

[Schattenlied]

In that gif, you are fighting a regular mob of one level lower than you in a class which is commonly thought of as overpowered early in leveling... that is not indicative of it being too easy....

I literally just told you it's exactly the same at lvl 68, and would be even worse if I had weapons equipped, which every other class has to have.

you should be regularly fighting groups of two or three mobs while leveling, not going one on one.

1. I'm NAKED, with NO WEAPONS... That at the very least should make 1 on 1 not a pushover... It would have been certain death before the leveling difficulty was switched to retard mode.

2. I would still be 2 hit killing them and barely even feel threatened at all, while naked, with no weapons.

3. That's an awful design, one mob should be a reasonable threat while leveling, we are not gods, we're adventurers, we shouldn't be running around murdering large packs of enemies by ourselves without issue. Pulling a pack of 3, while fully geared in quest greens and blues, should have a decent chance to kill you if you aren't on top of your shit, like it was before the stat squish fucked up the scaling, not be almost no threat at all while naked and half asleep.

Leveling is supposed to teach people how to play the game, how can it do that if a 2 year old could faceroll their way through it?

The leveling mobs should be preparing people for endagame, important mechanics to interrupt, dodge, and move out of/in to that actually hurt if you fail them. Do this, and people hitting cap won't be botards standing in every mechanic possible, because leveling will have, through repetitive training, taught them how to not fail.

1 mob: easy but still gotta pay attention to those mechanics.
2 mobs: requires focus to stay alive, maybe pop a defensive CD, use those selfheals.
3 mobs: almost certain death if you aren't on top of your shit or a tank.


If you want to skip it, pay the boost fee, buy and strategically use those 300% XP potions with gold, etc. Everyone else who doesn't want to skip it can actually have a leveling experience that is entertaining again.

[Ebalina]

Challenging quests?

You what mate?

[Danare]

I think this could be cool but instead of making it difficult. I read some books that uses game-elements and has rebirth system. Why not make it so that once you reach to max level, you can just raid, etc but some others who enjoy leveling or are hardcore players can use rebirth system and replay, instead your 1st rebirth will make your level 1 character significantly stronger than other level 1s and get different quests because they see that you're "talented" and once you hit max level again, you can do it again for 1 more time or two more times (3 rebirths) and that way you'd be a lot more stronger than players who doesn't uses rebirth system.

Of course, this won't happen because folks will cry that it isn't fair, it isn't balanced, etc... but it'd be cool to see that. I'd love it.

[A dot Ham]

If you look closely you can see that the same model is used for different classes and different gear pieces.

Hyperbolic or not... you get the point. Right. Okay so we can move on now?

Even an item more like this has what ~140 different variations still under the same name.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=133620/a...#same-model-as

[Kellorion]

So mythic leveling?

[Valium104]

You really want a uber lazy content?

[God Save The King]

Hyperbolic or not... you get the point. Right. Okay so we can move on now?

Even an item more like this has what ~140 different variations still under the same name.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=133620/a...#same-model-as

That's just because of the WF/TF system. Each ilvl is considered a different item, but that doesn't really hurt anything. Like each legendary has 3 of the same, the 910, 940, and 970 version. Soon to include the 1000 version.

[Ashkiman]

I'm pretty sure it only works in SP games like Dark Souls.
Then again I don't play any mmorpg other than WoW

[Meiluy]

I literally just told you it's exactly the same at lvl 68, and would be even worse if I had weapons equipped, which every other class has to have.


1. I'm NAKED, with NO WEAPONS... That at the very least should make 1 on 1 not a pushover... It would have been certain death before the leveling difficulty was switched to retard mode.

2. I would still be 2 hit killing them and barely even feel threatened at all, while naked, with no weapons.

3. That's an awful design, one mob should be a reasonable threat while leveling, we are not gods, we're adventurers, we shouldn't be running around murdering large packs of enemies by ourselves without issue. Pulling a pack of 3, while fully geared in quest greens and blues, should have a decent chance to kill you if you aren't on top of your shit, like it was before the stat squish fucked up the scaling, not be almost no threat at all while naked and half asleep.

Leveling is supposed to teach people how to play the game, how can it do that if a 2 year old could faceroll their way through it?

The leveling mobs should be preparing people for endagame, important mechanics to interrupt, dodge, and move out of/in to that actually hurt if you fail them. Do this, and people hitting cap won't be botards standing in every mechanic possible, because leveling will have, through repetitive training, taught them how to not fail.

1 mob: easy but still gotta pay attention to those mechanics.
2 mobs: requires focus to stay alive, maybe pop a defensive CD, use those selfheals.
3 mobs: almost certain death if you aren't on top of your shit or a tank.


If you want to skip it, pay the boost fee, buy and strategically use those 300% XP potions with gold, etc. Everyone else who doesn't want to skip it can actually have a leveling experience that is entertaining again.

1v1ing a mob of equivalent level in the regular zone should NOT be a tough fight, ever. End game content doesn't have you fighting one mob at a time, by yourself, so your comment of what you face outside of dungeons and such preparing you for end game is a terrible argument. Now, if you were doing this in dungeons and raids, I'd see your point, but as it is, all you're doing is complaining that it's too easy to get to the end game content...

If world encounters occurred how you say they should, no one would be willing to play it, because most fights involve more than one threat, we'd be constantly waiting on cooldowns for simple quests and if we encountered three or more mobs, it would be suicide... that's stupid as hell for leveling content not in a dungeon.

[Schattenlied]

1v1ing a mob of equivalent level in the regular zone should NOT be a tough fight.

I never said it should be tough (unless you are referring to my naked with no weapons comment, in which case it should kill you). I said easy, but you still have to actually be awake.

End game content doesn't have you fighting one mob at a time, by yourself, so your comment of what you face outside of dungeons and such preparing you for end game is a terrible argument.

No, it's not... It's preparing you for mechanics, avoiding AoEs, not standing in the bad shit, interrupting important spells... None of that requires a group to teach the player the importance of those mechanics.

Leveling is supposed to teach people how to play, and it doesn't, not in any way, that should change.

all you're doing is complaining that it's too easy to get to the end game content...

No, I'm complaining that 90% of the game's content, and yes, leveling IS content, is boring as fuck. Not too easy, boring... Only an idiot enjoys running around with godmode on... Do you play an Elder Scrolls game on PC, and the first thing you do is open the console and type in "tgm"? I'd sure hope not... The game world is "easy" as long as you approach it properly, if you don't it will kill you.

If world encounters occurred how you say they should, no one would be willing to play it, because most fights involve more than one threat, we'd be constantly waiting on cooldowns for simple quests and if we encountered three or more mobs, it would be suicide... that's stupid as hell for leveling content not in a dungeon.

that's how most fights occurred in the world for most classes before heirlooms and and the stat squish fucking the scaling up, you pulled 1 mob at a time, maybe 2, if you got 3 you were in trouble unless you outgeared the area or you were a tank. People played it, and the people who liked to level for fun actually enjoyed it, because it wasn't a snorefest and the world had at least a modicum of danger, unlike now.

[Thage]

Always thought I was the only one who actually dared to believe this, for I do.

I mean, I always thought it was pretty public knowledge that the main reason Blizzard gutted out leveling is because of raiders who kept whining about rerolls and new players being daunted at a 80+-level grind at Vanilla/BC speeds. They also botched mob rebalancing with the WoD squish; early in beta they made it too hard and later in beta they made it too easy.

edit: As far as teaching players how to function in endgame groups, I'm not sure leveling up is the way to go. Not in the modern MMO market. These days, most MMOs have a training instance for it--for example, FFXIV's Hall of the Novice gives you a string of trials to complete that train you in the basics of your chosen role and give you a good set of low-level gear to help you through the first few dungeons, as well as a ring that boost your xp until you hit level 30. I'd like to see Proving Grounds redesigned and updated to function like that but for level-cap content, teaching you the basics of your class/spec as it functions in a group (the level-boost tutorial does fine enough teaching you the basics for solo questing) and giving you a basic set of starter gear to get you going in level-cap dungeon content. Would also be handy for rerolls/alts so you can just do PG for a set of dungeon gear and avoid the fresh-cap RNG grind.

[Lochton]

I mean, I always thought it was pretty public knowledge that the main reason Blizzard gutted out leveling is because of raiders who kept whining about rerolls and new players being daunted at a 80+-level grind at Vanilla/BC speeds. They also botched mob rebalancing with the WoD squish; early in beta they made it too hard and later in beta they made it too easy.

edit: As far as teaching players how to function in endgame groups, I'm not sure leveling up is the way to go. Not in the modern MMO market. These days, most MMOs have a training instance for it--for example, FFXIV's Hall of the Novice gives you a string of trials to complete that train you in the basics of your chosen role and give you a good set of low-level gear to help you through the first few dungeons, as well as a ring that boost your xp until you hit level 30. I'd like to see Proving Grounds redesigned and updated to function like that but for level-cap content, teaching you the basics of your class/spec as it functions in a group (the level-boost tutorial does fine enough teaching you the basics for solo questing) and giving you a basic set of starter gear to get you going in level-cap dungeon content. Would also be handy for rerolls/alts so you can just do PG for a set of dungeon gear and avoid the fresh-cap RNG grind.

Oh, I don't disagree with you.

Just experienced many making an outrage when I hint that the game being easy, isn't the new players fault.

[Schattenlied]

I mean, I always thought it was pretty public knowledge that the main reason Blizzard gutted out leveling is because of raiders who kept whining about rerolls and new players being daunted at a 80+-level grind at Vanilla/BC speeds. They also botched mob rebalancing with the WoD squish; early in beta they made it too hard and later in beta they made it too easy.

I mean, all they needed to do to make leveling go faster was make heirlooms give a bigger xp increase or simply make things give more experience.

FFXIV's Hall of the Novice gives you a string of trials to complete that train you in the basics of your chosen role

and yet, a reasonable number of standard world mobs in XIV have mechanics to avoid.

You don't just need to show them a thing, nowhere near level cap, and say "ok you learned it", you need to then, through repetition of them seeing it commonly throughout the rest of the leveling process, remind them of it, and eventually hopefully make it a part of their natural decision making process during fights.

[Thage]

I mean, all they needed to do to make leveling go faster was make heirlooms give a bigger xp increase or simply make things give more experience.

Well, back in WotLK when the only heirlooms were shoulders (before later patches added chests, trinkets, and weapons), they nerfed down the 1-70 leveling curve to keep new players from getting discouraged and to make it easier for raiders to reroll if, say, a patch broke Hunters again while Shadow Priests rose higher in the meta.

and yet, a reasonable number of standard world mobs in XIV have mechanics to avoid.

Certainly, but in many cases after level 30 the telegraphs on open-world mobs aren't punishing unless you're a Disciple of Magic or one of the squishier Disciples of War like Ninja, making it more an irritant than anything, especially if you're playing BLM or another Job with several charged attacks in your primary repertoire (like RDM and SAM). And again, we already have a system in WoW that gives you a good idea of what to do in open-world questing, my point was that the game would be better-served using the Proving Grounds as a (and I apparently need to emphasize this) level-capped answer to XIV's Hall of the Novice, meant to teach level-capped players the basics of functioning in their role in a group (teaching DPS to grab adds on the healer, how to coordinate with the tank to burn mobs down, when to CC a mob or interact with an environment object, teaching tanks to hold aggro, use area skills to maintain aggro on multiple mobs, taunting mobs off DPS and healers, and teaching healers how to coordinate their heals so they don't run out of mana or let someone die to a damage spike). These aren't skills players tend to pick up while leveling; even back in Vanilla and BC it was generally understood that the game while leveling and the game at level cap were quite different in what skills were expected of players.

[therealbowser]

No thanks. I'd love, however, the ability to scale my own level so that I can participate in lower level content with friends. Why this isn't a thing when the means are readily available is a mystery to me.

[Schattenlied]

even back in Vanilla and BC it was generally understood that the game while leveling and the game at level cap were quite different in what skills were expected of players.

well obviously, but there is no reason not to start hammering what CAN be taught with leveling into people early on...

And what other method would you suggest to make leveling not retard easy and absurdly boring? That needs to be fixed somehow... Increasing their health pools is something that needs to happen no matter what, because them hitting harder or having mechanics to pay attention to won't matter if they die in 2 hits. So in addition to larger health pools (or lower player damage) we either need to also make them hit significantly harder with their basic attacks so they aren't just tickling the player, or we need to give them not-uncommon special attacks that hurt, which can, as a bonus, serve to teach people the importance of interrupting and not standing in the bad.

If I'm a new player going into any MMO, WoW or otherwise, if the leveling experience isn't fun, I'm gonna quit before I ever touch the cap. It's currently very far from fun.

If I'm rerolling because my main got butchered, sure, I'd like it to be fast (which is what heirlooms and XP potions are for, and the boosts), but I'd also like it to be at least somewhat entertaining, and able to keep my attention so I'm not bored out of my mind while doing it... It is a game after all, it should be fun, not just a chore.

If I'm leveling an alt because I just feel like leveling, or because I would like an alt of that class for whatever reason, I'm not going to hit cap if it's not fun... I'm going to stop as soon as 2 hit killing everything while being nearly invulnerable gets boring, which will take about 5 minutes, if that.

[Queen of Hamsters]

In order for leveling content to be "truly challenging" to me, it'd need to be tuned at the same level as higher M+ keys, HC/Mythic raiding or the Mage Tower challenge...

Like, wtf? I'd much rather they actually fix the leveling experience and make it less fractured and less 2004-ish in appearance. In the end, leveling content will always be "retard mode" which always allowed "retard"-level players to progress, even if slowly, and making it to endgame.