Casualties reported after New York 'shooting'

[primalmatter]

But netting the lowest results. Banning Muslims alone is far from feasible if you think about it. Trump's ban is about as close as it gets but from what I understood (and agree with), it's not a Muslim ban.

It's not but it does stem a harmful flow. It is going to be a problem for generations because we forgot that not every culture is the same as ours.

[kail]

Should one take any steps to prevent these sorts of attacks? I mean, this seems like a really high price to pay for liberal urbanites culinary pleasures.

We do take steps. We vet people coming into our country, rather extensively. Authorities also take measures (known and possibly unknown) in monitoring outliers. Looking at the steps taken and looking at statistics, I'd say we are doing fine.

[Themius]

It's not but it does stem a harmful flow. It is going to be a problem for generations because we forgot that not every culture is the same as ours.

Not every muslim culture is the same.

[OrcsRLame]

On the large scale, murder is an issue. More than 10,000 are murdered in the U.S., but you want to focus on what accounts for a dozen or two?

Terrorism is the sort of problem that scales the longer you ignore it. Murder rates are more or less constant, but terrorists are always looking to increase their lethality. For example, it's a matter of when they get nukes, not if. It's not a realistic concern though to think that gang members in Chicago are going to resort to nuclear weapons for murder, because they obviously don't want to nuke their own city.

Furthermore, you and I have no idea how many terrorist attacks are foiled by anti-terrorism efforts, and how many more attempted attacks there would be if said anti-terrorism efforts didn't exist.

This is why intent and group size matters. It's not worrying on a societal level when 10000 people get murdered in individual cases. It is worrying when you have a group of people that want to inflict the maximum amount of casualties possible indiscriminately.

[primalmatter]

Not every muslim culture is the same.

Problem is they don't differ by enough.

[kail]

It's not but it does stem a harmful flow. It is going to be a problem for generations because we forgot that not every culture is the same as ours.

We've had Muslims in our country for generations...how much longer until it's an issue?

[OrcsRLame]

You need to read a few more books

Which ones would you recommend?

[primalmatter]

You're contradicing yourself with this statement and don't even realize it.

There is no feasible solution to these types of attacks. Completely isolating ourselves is NOT a feasible solution. That's the entire point. We have several precautions in place already and they are very effective.

Explain to me why it isn't? Not using feelings but give me practical reasons why we can't isolate ourselves from massive amounts of low skilled workers?

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We've had Muslims in our country for generations...how much longer until it's an issue?

Around 2001 if we are honest.

[Xandrigity]

Dude came here with a diversity visa. Clearly that didn't work out.

[kail]

Terrorism is the sort of problem that scales the longer you ignore it. Murder rates are more or less constant, but terrorists are always looking to increase their lethality. For example, it's a matter of when they get nukes, not if. It's not a realistic concern though to think that gang members in Chicago are going to resort to nuclear weapons for murder, because they obviously don't want to nuke their own city.

Furthermore, you and I have no idea how many terrorist attacks are foiled by anti-terrorism efforts, and how many more attempted attacks there would be if said anti-terrorism efforts didn't exist.

This is why intent and group size matters. It's not worrying on a societal level when 10000 people get murdered in individual cases. It is worrying when you have a group of people that want to inflict the maximum amount of casualties possible indiscriminately.

Terrorism is never ignored, if that's your concern. I'm also sure that terrorist efforts are halted by authorities. Without numbers though, can't really form a good argument on how bad the situation is. I'm simply looking at numbers and seeing deaths related to Islamic nutbags, with that number I can conclude that our preventative system works out pretty well.

[OrcsRLame]

Terrorism is never ignored, if that's your concern. I'm also sure that terrorist efforts are halted by authorities. Without numbers though, can't really form a good argument on how bad the situation is. I'm simply looking at numbers and seeing deaths related to Islamic nutbags, with that number I can conclude that our preventative system works out pretty well.

I'm aware of all this. My point, is that terrorism is not directly comparable to murder, because of how it fluctuates and changes over time.

[Steve French]

I have very little patience for this kind of... discourse.

I did not say atheism ended the crusades. I said that the humiliation of Christianity has prevented us from seeing modern day Christian crusades. If you think that the odds of a Christian crusade now are greater than or equal to the odds of a crusade happening before the enlightenment, you are delusional.

If you actually feared "modern day crusades", you're clearly the delusional one. The "smashing" of Americas religion has left a vacuum that's been filled with the lefts political ideology that acts in a very similar way to the religious shaming you were just denouncing in your religion is the root of war/conflict post, which is btw dead wrong. At least western religions resulted in something positive and they continue to try and keep them updated to fit in with changing times. Also, not a religious person myself, but at least I can admit its done a lot of good for the west.

[Yaney]

Well I mean parts of Eastern Europe seems to be on a "persecute the gays" kick right now; sure you want to idolize them as the perfect society?

Or do those not count as "terrorism?"

I would argue that Chechnya is more in Asia than in Europe, but okay. Does any Eastern European country have death camps for gay people? Nope. Does their society dislike them, let's say yes. So what, are you saying they have no right to have their opinion? Unless someone gets murdered, beaten or persecuted, there's no harm done. Unless your fifis got hurt, then i suppose you need to send microagression police and put microcriminal in microjail.

[kail]

Around 2001 if we are honest.

Outside of the most catastrophic event that happened to our country since WWII, is that it? Since then, they killed ~130 people (including these 8). All of them are tragic, but looks like a drop in the bucket which is a good sign. Calling Muslims a threat is almost statistically wrong.

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I'm aware of all this. My point, is that terrorism is not directly comparable to murder, because of how it fluctuates and changes over time.

Comparable in the sense that person X intentionally kills person(s) Y. My overall point is, our current system is working. Didn't intend to continue a tangent.

[OrcsRLame]

If you actually feared "modern day crusades", you're clearly the delusional one. The "smashing" of Americas religion has left a vacuum that's been filled with the lefts political ideology that acts in a very similar way to the religious shaming you were just denouncing in your religion is the root war/conflict post, which is btw dead wrong. At least western religions resulted in something positive and they continue to try and keep them updated to fit in with changing times. Also, not a religious person myself, but at least I can admit its done a lot of good for the west.

I explicitly said I don't fear a modern day crusade. I then gave the reasons for why a modern day crusade will never happen.

The total insanity on the left is actually two of the three examples I used of bad ideas that need to be crushed.

The good things that religion has done for the west does not wash away the bad things.

[Yaney]

Outside of the most catastrophic event that happened to our country since WWII, is that it? Since then, they killed ~130 people (including these 8). All of them are tragic, but looks like a drop in the bucket which is a good sign. Calling Muslims a threat is almost statistically wrong.

They just killed over 200 people in Somalia and wounded further 300 (or you don't care about Africa, you racist bigot) and list goes on and on. Only countries that don't go on the list are the ones with 0.0001% of muslims in their population.

[Zython]

Poor guy must have been suffering from economic anxiety.

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Explain to me why it isn't? Not using feelings but give me practical reasons why we can't isolate ourselves from massive amounts of low skilled workers?

Given the advent of automation and AI, that would include...most of humanity except for like 50 people.

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They just killed over 200 people in Somalia and wounded further 300 (or you don't care about Africa, you racist bigot) and list goes on and on. Only countries that don't go on the list are the ones with 0.0001% of muslims in their population.

You don't even know where Somalia is.

[kail]

They just killed over 200 people in Somalia and wounded further 300 (or you don't care about Africa, you racist bigot) and list goes on and on. Only countries that don't go on the list are the ones with 0.0001% of muslims in their population.

I'm talking U.S. here...other countries have their different means and methods.

[Zython]

If you actually feared "modern day crusades", you're clearly the delusional one. The "smashing" of Americas religion has left a vacuum that's been filled with the lefts political ideology that acts in a very similar way to the religious shaming you were just denouncing in your religion is the root of war/conflict post, which is btw dead wrong. At least western religions resulted in something positive and they continue to try and keep them updated to fit in with changing times. Also, not a religious person myself, but at least I can admit its done a lot of good for the west.

How dare the left shame people for advocating genocide.

[OrcsRLame]

Comparable in the sense that person X intentionally kills person(s) Y. My overall point is, our current system is working. Didn't intend to continue a tangent.

Our current system is working to a large degree, but it might not always be that way. Saying that terrorism is not a serious concern because it doesn't happen often, is rhetoric that is frequently used to assert that we need to cut back on our current system, or that we will never in the future need to be more proactive than we are now.

It's a thought terminating cliche designed to minimize people's concerns.