Spoilers, preview of Before the Storm

[Life-Binder]

also theres no way my Forsaken char is reporting to some Desolate Council bullshit out of nowhere


Sylvanas or noone

[Wildberry]

It better than having a rotten pop idol with legions of rotten single-minded fans as Warchief. Didn't you read the preview? She doesn't care abojt the horde. Saurfang should become Warchief. Slyvanus should become raid fodder.

Yes, representative councils are a much better alternative. God, I forgot how much distaste I had for the "Horde Council" proponents back during the first Warchief debate.

I never claimed Sylvanas was a good Warchief, my position has only ever been that she's much better than Vol'jin. Regardless, put away your hate-boner for Sylvanas and realize that debate, gridlock, and council-level politicking are tedious and boring for a setting like this.

[Tripzzz]

No it does not, they simply turn into slightly rotten human, jay what a great progression, it is not like we already have enough of those.

Rotten humans acting like rotten humans instead of acting like the obsessed fans of an undead pop idol. What a tragedy. We don't know who is on the council and what exactly do they want and what subjects they disagree with Slyvanus on? Seems like you already made your mind up on the subject.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, representative councils are a much better alternative. God, I forgot how much distaste I had for the "Horde Council" proponents back during the first Warchief debate.

I never claimed Sylvanas was a good Warchief, my position has only ever been that she's much better than Vol'jin. Regardless, put away your hate-boner for Sylvanas and realize that debate, gridlock, and council-level politicking are tedious and boring for a setting like this.

You seem confused. I want Saurfang to lead a coup(horde side explanation for killing Slyvanus) and become the new warchief. The council should rule over the Forsaken, not the Horde.

[Anjerith]

Oh, would you rather Knaak back? Would you really rather that?

Neither are even of the quality of the writer of the quest dialogue for Northshire abbey so dunno what to say compromise wise.

[Combatbutler]

Rotten humans acting like rotten humans instead of acting like the obsessed fans of an undead pop idol. What a tragedy. We don't know who is on the council and what exactly do they want and disagree with Slyvanus with? Seems like you already made your mind up on the subject.

Most Forsaken have always been portrayed as cruel beasts whether sylvanas was involved or not, the new ruling class suddenly growing soft is already a bad development, they disagreed with Sylvanas ensuring their future. I could see so many other potential conflicts, but this one makes hardly any sense.

Forsaken in general loath the living.

[Wildberry]

Seems like you already made your mind up on the subject.

Interestingly enough, your mind seems made up as well, considering this quote:

Thankfully this new Desolate Council turns the Forsaken into something interesting

You seem confused. I want Saurfang to lead a coup(horde side explanation for killing Slyvanus) and become the new warchief. The council should rule over the Forsaken, not the Horde.

I never suggested that you wanted the Desolate Council to replace the position of Warchief. I was simply saying that councils were a stupid alternative to Warchief, they're a stupid alternative to Sylvanas. I don't really care whether she stays or goes, I just don't want a Council of all things to succeed her.

[Deleted]

-Treating the audience like children and providing an unnecessary recap of previous events in a jarring manner, typically during dialogue or in a scene

My favourite was, Sylvanas Windrunner, former ranger-general of Silvermoon, the Dark Lady of the Forsaken and present warchief of the mighty Horde

[Tripzzz]

Interestingly enough, your mind seems made up as well, considering this quote:





I never suggested that you wanted the Desolate Council to replace the position of Warchief. I was simply saying that councils were a stupid alternative to Warchief, they're a stupid alternative to Sylvanas. I don't really care whether she stays or goes, I just don't want a Council of all things to succeed her.

Yeah my mind is made up. But i had seen that guy talk about having Slyvanus die, so i though he would want to have her replaced. But now it seems he wants to keep her. I hate Slyvanus so anything is better imo.

[Combatbutler]

Yeah my mind is made up. But i had seen that guy talk about having Slyvanus die, so i though he would want to have her replaced. But now it seems he wants to keep her. I hate Slyvanus so anything is better imo.

Having her replaced is something good, but having her replaced by a council that does not behave like most forsaken is a bad development. I'd be fine with them if they were angry with genn ruining their plans and at Sylvanas for failing to get them the val'kyr.

I want forsaken to behave as forsaken, not a bunch of fools somehow concerned for the well being of the living.

[Tripzzz]

Having her replaced is something good, but having her replaced by a council that does not behave like most forsaken is a bad development. I'd be fine with them if they were angry with genn ruining their plans and at Sylvanas for failing to get them the val'kyr.

I want forsaken to behave as forsaken, not a bunch of fools somehow concerned for the well being of the living.

Too early to say they aren't acting forsaken. The forsaken have always had undead they raised that didn't agree with Slyvanus. Putress, Stillwater, Galen, Godfrey, Voss, the Rotbrains, and that one argent dawn Undead from vanilla who said something about Slyvanus but i can't remember what exactly. I doubt the council turns on her because she attacks Stormwind. But maybe all this betrayal makes her snap(she was getting varimathras flashbacks lol) and she starts enslaving and mindcontrolling those killed defending Stormwind, manipulating and robbing their free will. She already admitted to attempting to ENSLAVE Eyir. Doing so would be against the "cornerstones of the Forsaken" and cause a rebellion.

[Deleted]

Having her replaced is something good, but having her replaced by a council that does not behave like most forsaken is a bad development. I'd be fine with them if they were angry with genn ruining their plans and at Sylvanas for failing to get them the val'kyr.

I want forsaken to behave as forsaken, not a bunch of fools somehow concerned for the well being of the living.

At least they are something new. Not the Sylvanas who cares about anything that's not my pet zombies crazy.

[Combatbutler]

Too early to say they aren't acting forsaken. The forsaken have always had undead they raised that didn't agree with Slyvanus. Putress, Stillwater, Galen, Godfrey, Voss, the Rotbrains, and that one argent dawn Undead from vanilla who said something about Slyvanus but i can't remember what exactly. I doubt the council turns on her because she attacks Stormwind. But maybe all this betrayal makes her snap(she was getting varimathras flashbacks lol) and she starts enslaving and mindcontrolling those killed defending Stormwind, manipulating and robbing their free will. She already admitted to attempting to ENSLAVE Eyir. Doing so would be against the "cornerstones of the Forsaken" and cause a rebellion.

Here is something I expect from the new council, continued experiments on humans, blight development and deployment, disregard for the welfare of non allied living beings and last but not least zero tolerance for any human ambition to reclaim former Lordaeron territory, if any of these is not upheld I'll be disappointed with the direction of the forsaken.

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At least they are something new. Not the Sylvanas who cares about anything that's not my pet zombies crazy.

They aren't something new, if this snipped is any indication. There is a good chance they would ruin what makes the forsaken being forsaken, which is undead beasts with little to no regard for the living, forging their own path on the world.

It would trash the forsaken and as I said before turn them into slightly rotten humans. The only problem with sylvanas is that she hogs the god damn spotlight for the forsaken and needs to go. Her story has been finished since wotlk. The shit the forsaken have done in general is fine.

[Tripzzz]

Here is something I expect from the new council, continued experiments on humans, blight development and deployment, disregard for the welfare of non allied living beings and last but not least zero tolerance for any human ambition to reclaim former Lordaeron territory, if any of these is not upheld I'll be disappointed with the direction of the forsaken.

So then they will continue to be forsaken? I don't see the issue. She is attacking Stormind FFS. I fully expect Stormwind to be blighted to hell and back and become Gilneas 2.0(while Gilneas becomes Stormwind 2.0) Now that she is warchief she won't be held back and will use her most powerful blight. I expect an obscene amount of "death frenzy manipluation" on Stormwind casualties.

[Wildberry]

@Combatbutler
>inb4 Sylvanas - Desolate Council split schisms the Forsaken military and allows for a Genn, Jaina and Argent Crusade-backed by Calia Menethil to gain a foothold in Lordaeron.

[zorrka]

Let's make a quick roundup of implicit stuff this part gives us.
Firstly, whatever happens immediately after Sargeras is defeated, it is not an "end of all things". Azeroth is not dead, hatched or whatever, so we may certainly say there won't be a WoW 2. Something like that might happen during or after events of this book, but is highly unlikely, as it definitely takes something more than just a book to lead to that, and from looks of it, the lead to the events of the book is us spending few months in Silithus. Apparently, there will be a military campaign there, but not exactly fatiguing - Horde forces, at least, have enough resources left to start another military venture right after.

As a part of previous implication - dark lady is not dead, whatever happens in Silithus. She might die in the events of the book, however, as leading a war effort is dangerous business. And then, she may usher their coming.

Also, capturing Stormwind suddenly make Varimathras' words true - about the shattered mask over Alliance's hearths. Which probably means that Alliance throne will run red from betrayal, in such an event.

She resents being a Warchief in the first place, which also means that Varimathras suggestion that power change was orchestrated implies that it was something above Sylvanas. If it had been her, she would have had a plan and were following it, not regretting that she got in. If so, the patient female being he refers to is not Sylv. Void stuff, Jaina or some other dreadlord?

Also, the way Stormwind stuff is conveyed is strange. Sounds like it's only logical to go and capture it now. You can't be guessing "How far can I push these people?" few paragraphs before thinking something like "Oh yeah, I'll lead them to the most devastating, bloody and pointless siege Azeroth have ever seen". Something might have happened in Storm already, prior to events of the book that is.

Any other observations?

[Wyrt]

@Combatbutler
>inb4 Sylvanas - Desolate Council split schisms the Forsaken military and allows for a Genn, Jaina and Argent Crusade-backed by Calia Menethil to gain a foothold in Lordaeron.

You know it'll happen. Blizzard is way too biased towards humans for Stormwind to be sacked or for them to be the bad guys in this war.

[Jshadowhunter]

Oh for fuck's sake, another faction war?

It's an excuse to introduce new BGs and face it, we've not had any since MoP and WoD pvp was really REALLY forced. Colosseum was the only thing that made sense.

[Deleted]

If anything happens to Stormwind, can Jaina FINALLY STOP BEING A BITCH AND KILL SOMEONE?

[mrsohta]

Okay, the throne in Orgrimmar is cursed. Maybe N'zoth put a small tentacle under there silently.

[zorrka]

My post got deleted for some reason.

Anyhow, I noticed few interesting things.

If Forsaken are going to capture Stormwind, it proves that Varimathras was right about shattered mask above Alliance's hearth. If so, Stormwind throne is probably going to run red from betrayal, and Sylvanas' ascend to power was probably orchestrated.

She, however, resents the idea of being warchief in the first place and wishes she stayed the leader of the Forsaken. If she was to manipulate Vol'jin, she would have had some plan on what to do next, which she apparently does not. That means that the patient female being Varimathras refers to in his Horde dialogue is probably someone else, that is some void stuff, Jaina or some other dreadlord.

Also, you can't be wondering "How far can I push these people" and preparing for the most bloody and pointless siege in the history of Azeroth just few paragraphs apart. On the contrary, it seems only logical to go there, all she needs is to prepare. Something must have happened there already (thrones run red from betrayal, holy places burn, all that Varimathras stuff), and she's going to make use of it somehow, not to start an all-out war.