[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Eazy]

Time for a jumbled probably full of holes prediction about Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke in TLJ.
Rey slips to the dark side after her encounter with Snoke and then she pursues Luke(Presumably in late 2nd act/early 3rd act), Ren being reeled back towards the light after being betrayed by Snoke(We know he's playing him like a damn fiddle) and during the battle in space he sneaks aboard Leia's ship in the chaos of battle and confronts her, they have a dialogue back and forth; splodey stuff happens and that's where we see him reaching out in the 2nd trailer and the 2 escape.
Rey finds Luke and they duel where she greatly wounds Luke but before she can finish him Ren intervenes and they have their rematch, ending with Rey coming back to her senses. It ends with Ren going into hiding while Luke and Rey recover, setting up a potential grey jedi order and the final confrontation with Snoke in episode IX.

That could be something actually interseting... if you could add a little more of Kylo in the end, I don't want to see him going into hiding. But I fear for the TESB V.2.

[Deleted]

The title is grammatically singular.

THE last jedi is the singular version
THESE last jedi is the plural version.

Examples:

These truths we hold to be self evident.
These are the days.

Not to be pricky here, but you misinterpreted the syntax there.

"These are the days" - "these" is a demonstrative pronoun. You would not use that in the sentence "these last jedi," except there would follow alother sentence like "these last jedi are heroes". It is NOT a "plural-article".

So "the last jedi" is actually readable as either singular or plural. "The" is just an article which does not change its number.

Funyn enough, your episode about "these united states" is the same - it is a demonstrative pronoun in that case, to refer to the states and not the government, as you said yourself.

[Puri]

The title is grammatically singular.

THE last jedi is the singular version
THESE last jedi is the plural version.

Examples:

These truths we hold to be self evident.
These are the days.


Its also interesting that in the early days of America, it was referred to as "these United States" which actually emphasized the nation as a collection of states. When you say "the United States" you specifically refer to the federal government. "these United States" fell out of favor simply because people don't refer to the states as a collective anymore - its either states rights or the federal government.

Why is everyone getting confused? Proficiency in grammar is at an all-time low.

Yeah, except https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/the:

the
used before nouns to refer to particular things or people that have already been talked about or are already known or that are in a situation where it is clear what is happening.

Examples: I just bought a new shirt and some new shoes. The shirt was pretty expensive, but the shoes weren't.

[Frontenac]

I have two possible reasons:
1. Clever deceivery to make the fans argue until the premier and thus keep the hype train going.
2. Translation error, in English Jedi is both singular and plural and English requires nothing else for that. The context shows the plurality. But in other languages additional changes needed to make it plural or singular, like the entire phrase changes: articles, suffixes of words, etc. And since "The last Jedi" has no context... translators might have erred on the side of caution and made it plural. It's a safer bet than making it singular.

I think it's 1 though, because I'm pretty sure Disney does all the translations themselves. Although there's a possibility of 2.

For instance at one point in time before the whole "is it plural or singular" hysteria a Russian translation was singular. After the hysteria it changed to plural. Something fishy was definitely going on.

1 makes no sense. There is no reason to decieve anyone so close to the premiere. As for 2, I can't see how the translators (all the translators) made the same mistake. Either Disney told them the title was plural, or they asked Disney. I highly doubt Disney would let the translators choose the title by themselves.

As for the end of the Jedi, I'm still not sure if it's not a misdirection. There is still a possibility that it is part of Luke's initial refusal to train Rey. We'll see soon enough.

[Fabinas]

The title is grammatically singular.

THE last jedi is the singular version
THESE last jedi is the plural version.

Examples:

These truths we hold to be self evident.
These are the days.


Its also interesting that in the early days of America, it was referred to as "these United States" which actually emphasized the nation as a collection of states. When you say "the United States" you specifically refer to the federal government. "these United States" fell out of favor simply because people don't refer to the states as a collective anymore - its either states rights or the federal government.

Why is everyone getting confused? Proficiency in grammar is at an all-time low.

Not a native speaker. But in the 10 years i studied English as a child and teen, i was never taught that "these" is a plural to "the". This is the first time EVER i see this distinction. I have been taught that "these" as a pronoun that refers to specific or pointed plural nouns. Never as an abstract plural form of the abstract, generic "the"

[Elim Garak]

Not a native speaker. But in the 10 years i studied English as a child and teen, i was never taught that "these" is a plural to "the". This is the first time EVER i see this distinction. I have been taught that "these" as a pronoun that refers to specific or pointed plural nouns. Never as an abstract plural form of the abstract, generic "the"

It can be plural if Last Jedi was a known title of a group of the remaining Jedi. You know like THE Beatles. It is not. Therefore singular.

[Fabinas]

Bah, we have to agree that we disagree. I will choose the official Disney translations of the english title as an actual indication and proof that 'The" is actually plural, than singular.

[Elim Garak]

Bah, we have to agree that we disagree. I will choose the official Disney translations of the english title as an actual indication and proof that 'The" is actually plural, than singular.

Wait, you choose Official Disney Translations over Official Disney Producer statement?

[Frontenac]

Wait, you choose Official Disney Translations over Official Disney Producer statement?

You have all the translated titles that are plural. They can't be all wrong, and as I told you, Disney certainly has a control over the titles in other languages.

[Fabinas]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...social_twitter

Last 2 Paragraphs :

"VF:Come on! The train has left the station.

RJ:One would think, let’s say this, that at the end of Episode VII it refers to Luke, because of the notion that this religion has died out and he is the last of them.

VF:One would think?

RJ:One would think."

It does seem that RJ insinuates there are more Jedis in the 8th movie, while in the 7th, only one did exist. Luke.

@Elim Garak : I still have no comment from you on this.

[Elim Garak]

You have all the translated titles that are plural. They can't be all wrong, and as I told you, Disney certainly has a control over the titles in other languages.

Just because you refuse to believe that marketing tricks are that tricky, doesn't mean it is not one.

@Elim Garak : I still have no comment from you on this.

There's nothing to comment.
The Episode subtitle is about Luke. Regardless of how many Jedi we are going to see in the movie.

[Frontenac]

Just because you refuse to believe that marketing tricks are that tricky, doesn't mean it is not one.


There's nothing to comment.
The Episode subtitle is about Luke. Regardless of how many Jedi we are going to see in the movie.

What marketing? What good can it bring? "Hey, let's tell the translators that the official title is plural! That will confuse everyone, that will be so great! Everyone will watch the movie because of that!"

[Elim Garak]

What marketing? What good can it bring? "Hey, let's tell the translators that the official title is plural! That will confuse everyone, that will be so great! Everyone will watch the movie because of that!"

No, more like, let's make people wonder if it's plural or singular, so they will want to see the movie to get the final answer, meanwhile arguing about it, keeping the hype fresh. Then release bits of info that are fueling the arguing.

It's a part of a bigger marketing campaign. It's your right to not see it.

[Kokolums]

It can be plural if Last Jedi was a known title of a group of the remaining Jedi. You know like THE Beatles. It is not. Therefore singular.

"The Beatles" is actually the name of the band. They are not "Beatles" they are "The Beatles". "The" is part of their name. So it doesn't need to follow any grammar rule. Although it actually is incorrect. The thing is that it has been incorrect for SO long that people are getting confused, but it actually sounds stupid to say "The Beatles".

Its kinda like the word "what". Up until the 1980s, you would pronounce the "wh" part by making a whooshing sound with your mouth, like you were blowing out air. That deep W sound was only used by lower class people and identified you as some sort of thug. The whooshing sound seemed to disappear in the 1980s and the deep W just took over. if you heard the way "what" was pronounced in the 1970s, you'd do a double take.

[Elim Garak]

"The Beatles" is actually the name of the band. They are not "Beatles" they are "The Beatles". "The" is part of their name.

Seems like I was not very clear in my wording but that's essentially what I meant. It can be plural if the "THE" is a part of the name of a group of remaining Jedi.

Its kinda like the word "what". Up until the 1980s, you would pronounce the "wh" part by making a whooshing sound with your mouth, like you were blowing out air. That deep W sound was only used by lower class people and identified you as some sort of thug. The whooshing sound seemed to disappear in the 1980s and the deep W just took over. if you heard the way "what" was pronounced in the 1970s, you'd do a double take.

Hm, that's interesting. By whooshing sound do you mean a sound closer to V?

[Tackhisis]

By whooshing sound do you mean a sound closer to V?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʍ

[Orange Joe]

"The Beatles" is actually the name of the band. They are not "Beatles" they are "The Beatles". "The" is part of their name. So it doesn't need to follow any grammar rule. Although it actually is incorrect. The thing is that it has been incorrect for SO long that people are getting confused, but it actually sounds stupid to say "The Beatles".

Its kinda like the word "what". Up until the 1980s, you would pronounce the "wh" part by making a whooshing sound with your mouth, like you were blowing out air. That deep W sound was only used by lower class people and identified you as some sort of thug. The whooshing sound seemed to disappear in the 1980s and the deep W just took over. if you heard the way "what" was pronounced in the 1970s, you'd do a double take.

Do you have any examples of this? I've watched many older films from before 1970. I don't remember what being pronounce any different than it is today.

[Kokolums]

Do you have any examples of this? I've watched many older films from before 1970. I don't remember what being pronounce any different than it is today.

One that comes to mind is Sarah Jane Smith in Doctor Who around 1975. I can no longer remember the scene but she uses the whooshing sound for a what. Actually the 4th doctor does it too now that think about it.

[Orange Joe]

One that comes to mind is Sarah Jane Smith in Doctor Who around 1975. I can no longer remember the scene but she uses the whooshing sound for a what. Actually the 4th doctor does it too now that think about it.

So this is more of an England thing?

[RobertoCarlos]

You guys are next level. Didn't expect to see such riveting dicussion about pronouncing what and the use of "the" in the title. Some really good stuff