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  1. #1
    High Overlord Shekora's Avatar
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    This expansion is a giant F U to players

    Let me list my grievances with World of Warcraft: "Battle for Azeroth"

    I really, really want to love this expansion. These are just my thoughts at the initial presentation.

    1. The Name

    Let's start with the most obvious one. "Battle for Azeroth". The funny thing is that when this name was trademarked I was pretty sure it was the expansion name, but the general opinion was that it was too stupid to be an actual expansion title. But it is.

    2. The Lore

    Have you heard of an idiot plot? Click here to learn more. In essence, an idiot plot is a plot that only is possible because of the ignorance of the main characters. Azeroth was in a perfect position to be unified after facing their biggest enemy yet, but hostilities were reignited over a MISUNDERSTANDING. A literal MISUNDERSTANDING and no one bothered to send the Alliance a letter saying "hey, we didn't just abandon you at the Broken Shore, if we hadn't retreated the Legion would have wiped us all out and Sargeras would have won, we're sorry". Genn escalates this by taking the first hostile action against the Horde. This is stupid. Way worse than in Cata where the Twilight Cultists murdered the Druid envoy and blamed it on Garrosh, that was at least interesting and believable and tensions were already boiling.

    Speaking of which, can I talk about Garrosh? He would be the perfect character for an expansion like this, and yet he died in a completely idiotic way in a stupid filler expansion. Talk about a waste of one of WoW's only good original characters.

    This expansion sh*ts all over the core message WoW has had for the past decade. There was a time where people were disgusted by the idea that Jaina would say "dismantle the Horde". Varian believed in peace after long, arduous character development. Anduin always believed in it. They are BUTCHERING their characters. People who say this "puts the WAR back in WARCRAFT" are idiots. Warcraft, since Warcraft III, has always been about putting aside our differences to defend our homes against greater, more malicious threats. Why after over FIFTEEN YEARS of preaching this message are they going back on that? UUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    3. "New Features"

    New dungeons, new raids, yadda yadda yadda. Except this time there's nothing truly creative. The subraces are just smoke and mirrors Blizzard is using to make people forget that they're ignoring things they actually should be doing like updating goblin and worgen models, etc. Scenarios are being rehashed and marketed as a new feature when they never should have been abandoned in the first place. Blizzard implemented loot from them improperly in MoP and assumed that because no one was playing them no one liked them. This was a reverse from what happened in Ashran, where Blizzard though that because so many people played it, it must have meant it was good, when in reality the rewards in Ashran were too good to pass up and it was a tedious grind and zergfest.

    They did a horrible job of explaining what things like "warfronts" even are. And seriously? Three levelling zones for ten levels? Are you kidding me? This whole thing is like a nightmarish fever dream. The worst part is that Blizzard claims to have the largest team working on WoW that they've ever had, and they're releasing less content than a decade ago (TBC).

    4. PvP and PvE

    This may be one of their most idiotic moves ever. People who care deeply about minmaxing PvE will be forced to toggle PvP for the highest possible rewards. People who enjoy WPvP and natural random encounters will be segregated off into tiny instanced areas. It's an awful solution for all players and you get screwed no matter what you enjoy.

    5. Classic Servers

    Hurray! Legacy servers! Except this will demolish an already dwindling playerbase. Combined with the PvE/PvP sharding I can't wait for my realm to be populated by sharded ghosts from other realms that I'll never meet again. What's a community again? Hurr durr.

    I want to write more but my fingers hurt.
    Last edited by Shekora; 2017-11-04 at 11:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
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  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Iseeyou's Avatar
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    It was indeed a terrible presentation of BFA.

    And remember, the first thing they showed to us is....classic server. As the new xpac was secondary.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Shekora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iseeyou View Post
    And remember, the first thing they showed to us is....classic server. As the new xpac was secondary.
    Exactly There's way more interest in Classic than in the actual expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    I have a wife, dude. Sure it's a sexless marriage but at least I sleep closer to a woman you or OP - or hell, most of this forum - ever will :>

  4. #4
    High Overlord Nokonda's Avatar
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    Well written. I agree with your points.

    I wrote this in a couple of other threads which I believe is in accordance with your own opinion:

    Why 'the Horde Vs. Alliance plot 'never work:
    It boils down to design-choice. Blizzard aims to catch-all and please as many as possible regardless of faction choice (equal opportunities). There is an inherent problem with this design philosophy; because the two factions are so similar in end-goals and philosophy you end up having a shallow conflict where the plot and tension feels forced to the point where the real issue is a matter of a simple power-struggle.

    Then on occasion you have this big villain/threat where both Alliance and Horde seem to be functioning fine alongside each other - even co-operating at times - to defeat said enemy. This works well because of the aforementioned similarities between the two factions. I'm aware there are still occasional conflicts between the factions but they always end up banding together to fight this over-arching threat.

    Your choice largely doesn't matter.
    Blizzard manages to create symmetrical game-play where the only real incentive to play one faction over the other is if you have a preferred race/city or if your friends play a specific faction. You get an almost identical questing/game-play experience and there are no restricted classes to factions any longer. The are an abundance of neutral factions that doesn't care if you're Horde or Alliance. This last part may be different with Battle for Azeroth, although they already revealed you'll be able to visit the other island once you're done with your own.


    Both factions have the same fundamental goal/philosophy.
    To survive and have the upper hand. There are no fundamental political differences or interesting philosophical divergences (utilitarianism vs deontology, for instance) to separate the two factions.

    So why not remove factions all-together?
    Well, because there are differences between the two factions. They do things differently, speak different languages and have different cultures. This doesn't mean that war is inevitable. Think of your own country - just because there are other countries and cultures doesn't mean that war is unavoidable.

    How do you solve the issue?
    In my opinion you have to create unequal conditions and/or contrast philosophies to spark the flame of conflict. The one time where Blizzard actually managed to get close to a real conflict was when the Horde was under Garroshs' rule. It was then that the Horde began to drastically diverge from the Alliance in terms of philosophy and goals, this of course due to Garroshs' violent/extremists view. It was also back then when the Horde was villainized and Blizzard forced Horde players to side with Alliance (again...) to dethrone Garrosh thereby reverting things back to status quo.

    I'm personally also in favor of factions-restricted classes. This creates more incentive to choose one faction over the other and also provides the player an additional affiliation to the faction.

  5. #5
    Baba Ji - love problem solutions.
    Wrote this in hope that this thread will be purged by the algorithm cause people complain about the same thing over and over again.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    What's a community again? Hurr durr.
    But hey, they announced cool new community features!!1
    Like that Discord rip-off UI that lets you join random "community channels" - and use voice chat to listen to teens heap abuse on you.

    Strong community features.

  7. #7
    Nah it was alright, gonna buy it and play it like every previous one. How is fight for power over titans blood is idiotic plot lul? Nobody cares for entire plot by the way, people care about characters and races, and they are involved here so it's gonna be fine.

    ALSO HOW DARE ALLIANCE DOGS TO RISE A HAND ON MY MISTRESS SYLVANAS! THEY GOONA PAY FOR THIS!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyOcelot View Post
    But hey, they announced cool new community features!!1
    Like that Discord rip-off UI that lets you join random "community channels" - and use voice chat to listen to teens heap abuse on you.

    Strong community features.
    They seem to think that the idea of a "server community" is something that should be restricted only to Classic servers.
    I've been SEETHING ever since CRZs were added into the game in MoP. Every time some no name from another server kills me, or steals a rare, or when quest mobs are all dead because five other random servers are all merged in that area. I hate it so much.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Shekora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dnusha View Post
    Nobody cares for entire plot by the way, people care about characters and races, and they are involved here so it's gonna be fine.
    You are the problem with WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    I have a wife, dude. Sure it's a sexless marriage but at least I sleep closer to a woman you or OP - or hell, most of this forum - ever will :>

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
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    The Headline Act doesn't go on stage before the Warm Up Band.

    Vanilla Servers popped up before BfA for a reason.

    As to "A Misunderstanding" Nah, friendo. The Battle for Azeroth is starting because Greymane was handed the Idiot Ball in Legion. Yeah, he was right to not trust Sylvanas because she intended to enslave the goddess of the Val'kyr, but his first action was to try and make an assassination attempt on the leader of a foreign power directly against the orders of his superior, the High King of the Alliance. Dude was pissed about Gilneas, about his Son, about everything that happened and just used Varian's death as an excuse to go after the Banshee Queen. Didn't help that he had Sky Admiral Warcrimes McEvillaugh flying his airship for him.

    This isn't a misunderstanding. This is a Vendetta.

  11. #11
    I think the lack of energy from the 'deep dive' panelists is what has thrown people here. We're so used to Blizzard wheeling out larger than life personalities like Metzen, Didier, Goss, Holinka, Chilton etc. It felt incredibly stiff, & I think that has helped undersell it. I know I'll get pummelled to hell for this, but the lack of energy & announcing classic first (which was a mistake) - that should have been a 'Oh, & one more thing moment'. Just my two copper on this.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Dangg's Avatar
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    Calling the PvE/PvP toggle thing the most idiotic thing ever might be the biggest overreaction ever.
    Is it more idiotic than the 7.0 version of legendaries? Garrisons? Real names on blizzard forums?
    Last edited by Dangg; 2017-11-04 at 12:18 PM.

  13. #13
    Banned MechaCThun's Avatar
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    Going to be a filler expansion to set the course of events for the 8th expansion.

    Blizzard is making this expansion to test new mechanics, software, scenarios, etc.

  14. #14
    I think they just took our criticism from WoD blizcon serious and didnt promise us the world this time, without being sure it will actually happen. Its pretty clear they are still in "lets see if this even works" phase with the two big features (warfronts and dynamic szenarios) and so they didnt just tell us their wildest dreams about what those feature could theoreticly be.
    Wether or not you like a theme is entirely subjective and has nothing to do with a fuck you. Some people didnt like pandas. Some people didnt like dimensional time nonsense. Some people dont like world ending threats. Some people dont like faction wars. They do have to pick something though. Sorry to hear that this one isnt for you.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  15. #15
    High Overlord Shekora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalstarrwow View Post
    I think the lack of energy from the 'deep dive' panelists is what has thrown people here. We're so used to Blizzard wheeling out larger than life personalities like Metzen, Didier, Goss, Holinka, Chilton etc. It felt incredibly stiff, & I think that has helped undersell it. I know I'll get pummelled to hell for this, but the lack of energy & announcing classic first (which was a mistake) - that should have been a 'Oh, & one more thing moment'. Just my two copper on this.
    Damn I never looked at it like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    I have a wife, dude. Sure it's a sexless marriage but at least I sleep closer to a woman you or OP - or hell, most of this forum - ever will :>

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Let me list my grievances with World of Warcraft: "Battle for Azeroth"

    I really, really want to love this expansion. These are just my thoughts at the initial presentation.

    1. The Name

    Let's start with the most obvious one. "Battle for Azeroth". The funny thing is that when this name was trademarked I was pretty sure it was the expansion name, but the general opinion was that it was too stupid to be an actual expansion title. But it is.

    2. The Lore

    Have you heard of an idiot plot? Click here to learn more. In essence, an idiot plot is a plot that only is possible because of the ignorance of the main characters. Azeroth was in a perfect position to be unified after facing their biggest enemy yet, but hostilities were reignited over a MISUNDERSTANDING. A literal MISUNDERSTANDING and no one bothered to send the Alliance a letter saying "hey, we didn't just abandon you at the Broken Shore, if we hadn't retreated the Legion would have wiped us all out and Sargeras would have won, we're sorry". Genn escalates this by taking the first hostile action against the Horde. This is stupid. Way worse than in Cata where the Twilight Cultists murdered the Druid envoy and blamed it on Garrosh, that was at least interesting and believable and tensions were already boiling.

    Speaking of which, can I talk about Garrosh? He would be the perfect character for an expansion like this, and yet he died in a completely idiotic way in a stupid filler expansion. Talk about a waste of one of WoW's only good original characters.

    This expansion sh*ts all over the core message WoW has had for the past decade. There was a time where people were disgusted by the idea that Jaina would say "dismantle the Horde". Varian believed in peace after long, arduous character development. Anduin always believed in it. They are BUTCHERING their characters. People who say this "puts the WAR back in WARCRAFT" are idiots. Warcraft, since Warcraft III, has always been about putting aside our differences to defend our homes against greater, more malicious threats. Why after over FIFTEEN YEARS of preaching this message are they going back on that? UUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    3. "New Features"

    New dungeons, new raids, yadda yadda yadda. Except this time there's nothing truly creative. The subraces are just smoke and mirrors Blizzard is using to make people forget that they're ignoring things they actually should be doing like updating goblin and worgen models, etc. Scenarios are being rehashed and marketed as a new feature when they never should have been abandoned in the first place. Blizzard implemented loot from them improperly in MoP and assumed that because no one was playing them no one liked them. This was a reverse from what happened in Ashran, where Blizzard though that because so many people played it, it must have meant it was good, when in reality the rewards in Ashran were too good to pass up and it was a tedious grind and zergfest.

    They did a horrible job of explaining what things like "warfronts" even are. And seriously? Three levelling zones for ten levels? Are you kidding me? This whole thing is like a nightmarish fever dream. The worst part is that Blizzard claims to have the largest team working on WoW that they've ever had, and they're releasing less content than a decade ago (TBC).

    4. PvP and PvE

    This may be one of their most idiotic moves ever. People who care deeply about minmaxing PvE will be forced to toggle PvP for the highest possible rewards. People who enjoy WPvP and natural random encounters will be segregated off into tiny instanced areas. It's an awful solution for all players and you get screwed no matter what you enjoy.

    5. Classic Servers

    Hurray! Legacy servers! Except this will demolish an already dwindling playerbase. Combined with the PvE/PvP sharding I can't wait for my realm to be populated by sharded ghosts from other realms that I'll never meet again. What's a community again? Hurr durr.

    I want to write more but my fingers hurt.
    Ok you don't like the name... good for you. How has it been about working together? It's never been working about together. Are we even playing the same game? The only time the factions remotely worked together was for the siege of orgrimmar to remove Garrosh. The horde and the alliance aren't working together to stop the Legion. The class order halls and the army of the light are. There' almost 0 horde or alliance characters even involved in Legion. The broken shore where the alliance thinks the horde betrayed them. The only other horde and alliance interaction is basically Stormheim where Genn and Sylvanas are going all out after each other. Not really sure how that qualifies as "working together." The fact that the alliance and horde always fight each other and might band together when it becomes clear of an overwhelming threat for a short time does not qualify as them always working together. That's why there are two separate factions and not just one.

    I'd rather have subraces. I could honestly care less about Worgen or Goblin models and I'm sure most people could care less about them. They look fine. The fact that people want updated models over having other race options as playable is quite strange indeed.

    We don't really know enough about the new content that was released to be hating on it already imo but of course people already are.

    Also we are getting Azshara so we know the whole theme of the expansion is not just red versus blue.
    Last edited by lanesia24; 2017-11-04 at 03:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Seems to be similar to MoP, which is seen by many as a pretty solid expansion, only this time it will probably have a better start than MoP did as there's a lot of groundwork already done with all the legion features that will stay in the game.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    2. The Lore

    Have you heard of an idiot plot? Click here to learn more. In essence, an idiot plot is a plot that only is possible because of the ignorance of the main characters. Azeroth was in a perfect position to be unified after facing their biggest enemy yet, but hostilities were reignited over a MISUNDERSTANDING. A literal MISUNDERSTANDING and no one bothered to send the Alliance a letter saying "hey, we didn't just abandon you at the Broken Shore, if we hadn't retreated the Legion would have wiped us all out and Sargeras would have won, we're sorry". Genn escalates this by taking the first hostile action against the Horde. This is stupid. Way worse than in Cata where the Twilight Cultists murdered the Druid envoy and blamed it on Garrosh, that was at least interesting and believable and tensions were already boiling.

    Speaking of which, can I talk about Garrosh? He would be the perfect character for an expansion like this, and yet he died in a completely idiotic way in a stupid filler expansion. Talk about a waste of one of WoW's only good original characters.

    This expansion sh*ts all over the core message WoW has had for the past decade. There was a time where people were disgusted by the idea that Jaina would say "dismantle the Horde". Varian believed in peace after long, arduous character development. Anduin always believed in it. They are BUTCHERING their characters. People who say this "puts the WAR back in WARCRAFT" are idiots. Warcraft, since Warcraft III, has always been about putting aside our differences to defend our homes against greater, more malicious threats. Why after over FIFTEEN YEARS of preaching this message are they going back on that? UUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    I can't answer anything about other points, but talking about the lore, well, I like what we are going.
    I'm really bored about killing gods, titans, celestial monsters and being the most powerful of everything (and knowing that I can't lose, doesn't matter how bad I play, the result will be that I'm going to survive anything, recieve the help of some gods/titans/whatever If the lore is too much and even transform in super saiyan if I need to kill big bad guy that I shoudn't even try in the first place).
    So, knowing that, for me it's a good plot to start playing in Battle for Azeroth. In other words, I'm ok with this expansion, even If we all know that this plot is just smoke to continue at the same square in the end: Shaking hands between A&H when Aszhara+N'zoth become the new "illidan/Arthas/Garrosh/Sargeras/Gul'dan/Etc...", again.

  19. #19
    The announcement and everything they've discussed on the 1 or 2 panels so far has been insanely underwhelming.

  20. #20
    There's complete justification for the characters to be the way they are. Jaina had her city destroyed with many of her people. Genn's son was killed by Sylvanas and Gilneans had to flee their city after the forsaken took it. Sylvanas is well Sylvanas. She's intent on doing what it takes. Genn took her Valkyr away in Stormheim. Her only connections to the alliance have turned their back on her in Vareesa and Alleria. We were seeing Anduin change into more of a warrior in Legion. We don't yet know the motivations for what happened or who started what so it's hard to really say that it is out of character for any of them really. Genn will surely be pushing Anduin to go to war and he might have to if something like Teldrassil being burned happens to keep his alliance together. You can't just let your allies homeland be burned to the ground and expect them to follow you.

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