I am just baffled by the Alliance fighting the Horde again, how do you defend it?

[lazypeon100]

Honestly I don't find it too hard to believe. Just because we fight a common enemy doesn't mean any and all animosity suddenly disappears. Being able to work together doesn't mean they suddenly stop hating one another.

In addition, the alliance has some plausible excuses for going to war whether the Horde attack first or not. They still want Lordaeran, Genn still wants revenge for his son, etc.

Only reason I could see Horde striking first is because Genn struck first in stormheim.

The timeline and other various unknowns still need to be known before we can give it a fair judgement.

In either case, I personally enjoy the faction war, so i look forward to fighting the Alliance!

[Theoris]

Alliance still sees Horde responsible for Varian's death, besides rogues, nobody else knows what happened on Broken Shore.

Is communication really that hard for people in Warcraft? You'd think someone would go "By the way, the Broken Shore was a trap" to the Alliance leaders.

Either the Alliance leaders have been informed of the Horde's forced retreat and they simply don't care or Matthias Shaw and everyone in the Uncrowned are drooling idiots.

[bryroo]

The Faction War is written for 12 year olds who like to call each other names on the forums for being on a different team.

It doesn't have to be anymore believable or coherent than a Sharknado sequel.

It'll end in another predictable stalemate eventually.

[lazza25784]

Sylvannas is warchief, you think the horde isn't going to come defend the Undercity and just let the alliance claim all of EK peacefully?

Really though, we DON'T HAVE THE FULL STORY. At least wait for the novel. Wait until we know the actual story and what happens before judging the story as bad.

According to the info we have from the Novel Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind.

[MagusHenosis]

Odds are the Horde starts it. Why do I say that? Because they are the ones who always start it. The First and Second Wars? The Horde started it.

The war that was going on during Cataclysm and MoP? The Horde started it. Ashran? The Horde started it.

Horde does start some shit......this is true.

I used to use the Tillers toy on Alliance, and then eat their corpse as Undead.

I think that could be classified as starting some shit??? (and people try and claim I don't have a dark side?)

Then again, I am now killing up to like 5+ Horde at once by myself as Alliance......so......Alliance starts shit too OK.

Let's be honest OK, and all admit that BOTH sides start some shit, since this is a VIDEO GAME OK!!!

Perhaps y'all are taking all this a little bit too serious???

We don't even know all the details of the story stuff yet.....right???

[Kaykay]

Wow has enough historic events to cause hatred for a lifetime. Just because we have to "work together" to beat the big bad. (which is a cheesy ass plot that's been reused to death) does not change the numerous human descendants and survivors of the troll wars in arathi highlands, the fall of gilneas, lordaeron and stratholmle.

the orcs in ashenvale, the kultirians in durator, the orcs and dwarves in the tandol span, the trolls and dwarves of the hinterlands.

Hatred and strife is everywhere in this worlds narrative. It's about time the game focus was returned to it's origins.

[MagusHenosis]

Hey guys lol, Warcraft is based around FACTION WARFARE OK!!!

ORCS VERSUS HUMANS MUCH???

HELLO???

If only more understood this, and what being hardcore means, and what being skilled means......

[Kathranis]

Makes the most sense if the Alliance strikes first. At least, if the question is whether Teldrassil or the Undercity was the "first shot" of the conflict.

I don't really see where Sylvanas would be motivated to attack the night elves unless it was an act of reprisal to secure a total foothold on Kalimdor after being forced to retreat from the Eastern Kingdoms. There is a small contingent of worgen in Darnassus, but it seems to me that all the characters she has grudges against (really just Genn and Vareesa) are based in Stormwind. If there is a reasonable justification for that being the starting point, we can't know what it is until the novel.

On the flip side, there are reasons right now for why the Alliance might strike at the Undercity. Genn has a massive grudge against Sylvanas, the Alliance mistakenly blames the Horde for Varian's death, and Jaina has been pushing for war since Theramore.

If Sylvanas were going after Stormwind first, I could understand it, but based on what was stated at the What's New panel, it was either Teldrassil or Undercity that kicked things off. I just can't see any logic to Sylvanas going after Teldrassil without something else instigating it.

[Kyux]

We don't know how it will play out. I think Sylvanas will make an attack on Stormwind, fail, then Anduin will respond (on Genn's advice) and wage a full attack on the Undercity. For the Alliance they have the reason of Varian's death/Broken Shore betrayal. For the other Horde races it will be a major attack on their city. If Sylvanas strikes first in a person/Forsaken-only attack, and then the Alliance does a full-on retaliation, it makes sense for the rest of the Horde to pitch in.

[MagusHenosis]

Makes the most sense if the Alliance strikes first. At least, if the question is whether Teldrassil or the Undercity was the "first shot" of the conflict.

I don't really see where Sylvanas would be motivated to attack the night elves unless it was an act of reprisal to secure a total foothold on Kalimdor after being forced to retreat from the Eastern Kingdoms. There is a small contingent of worgen in Darnassus, but it seems to me that all the characters she has grudges against (really just Genn and Vareesa) are based in Stormwind. If there is a reasonable justification for that being the starting point, we can't know what it is until the novel.

On the flip side, there are reasons right now for why the Alliance might strike at the Undercity. Genn has a massive grudge against Sylvanas, the Alliance mistakenly blames the Horde for Varian's death, and Jaina has been pushing for war since Theramore.

If Sylvanas were going after Stormwind first, I could understand it, but based on what was stated at the What's New panel, it was either Teldrassil or Undercity that kicked things off. I just can't see any logic to Sylvanas going after Teldrassil without something else instigating it.

You know what I just realized by reading this???

Blizz could no kidding alter the game for either the Horde or the Alliance to "gain control" of territories by conquest, and make it so that the PLAYERS through PVP (somehow) were able to alter the story (and the very world) of the game in that way over time. The main problem that I see with this though, is faction imbalance. Then again, Blizzard seems to be like "steering" the imbalance, at least on some level, so perhaps they could deal with this potential problem fine.

I know it would be a lot of work potentially, but I REALLY feel that the faction warfare aspect of WoW could provide TONS of content, and that some kind of PLAYER focused CONQUEST of ACTUAL territory could be just what the game needs, to get people behind the FACTION WARFARE aspect of the game, which lets be honest, is how Warcraft started in the first place.....

[Chromeshellking]

We don't know how it will play out. I think Sylvanas will make an attack on Stormwind, fail, then Anduin will respond (on Genn's advice) and wage a full attack on the Undercity. For the Alliance they have the reason of Varian's death/Broken Shore betrayal. For the other Horde races it will be a major attack on their city. If Sylvanas strikes first in a person/Forsaken-only attack, and then the Alliance does a full-on retaliation, it makes sense for the rest of the Horde to pitch in.

Pretty much what I was thinking as well. From a tacticians perspective I would see her striking first as the offensive against NE tree, follows up with an attempt on Sw. That does not succeed forces a retreat, and then we make the move on the RoL.

[Eucep]

You can justify it through a few concepts.

Manipulation being the one factor I believe is influencing this war. Either Sylvanas is manipulating the horde into fighting by causing problems and framing the alliance OR the old gods are actually meddling and are manipulating us into an all out war either to distract us or to try and make us eliminate each other.

The old gods are very well known for their manipulation. That’s their main way of doing things. I could easily see us being manipulated by N’zoth and/or the other old gods and that’s the cause of the war. By the end of the expac we figure this out and face the old gods in the final tier. Makes sense to me.


Another concept would just be hatred. There’s the fact Genn has had a huge hate boner for Sylvanas ever since she killed his son. He doesn’t care if garrosh was behind invading Gilneas, she led the charge whether she wanted to or not and she also used the plague. He’s been angry forever. Jaina had her home destroyed by the horde for absolutely no reason so she developed the same hatred Genn has. Sylvanas has never really cared about anything aside from her own race, so claiming territory isn’t out of her reach.

Actually good chance both Sylvanas and Anduin are influenced by the old gods. Sylvanas due to her suicide on Saronite spikes (Yogg-Saron blood). Andruin by Wrathion who according to theory, might be N'zoth. (Appearance of Wrathion matches the description of the human avatar of N'zoth's inspiration in C'thulu mythos.)

[MagusHenosis]

Guys, please speak on what I said about the player focused conquering of territory.

I am not a game developer, and I am definitely not a programmer, and I don't know very much about the lore.

Is my idea a viable one, and if not, then why not???

[Jshadowhunter]

Is communication really that hard for people in Warcraft? You'd think someone would go "By the way, the Broken Shore was a trap" to the Alliance leaders.

Either the Alliance leaders have been informed of the Horde's forced retreat and they simply don't care or Matthias Shaw and everyone in the Uncrowned are drooling idiots.

Well, there's quite a few people who'd want nothing but to see the Horde purged, Greymane and Fleet Admiral especially.
So why let minute details get in a way of a good war?

[Taeldorian]

Actually good chance both Sylvanas and Anduin are influenced by the old gods. Sylvanas due to her suicide on Saronite spikes (Yogg-Saron blood). Andruin by Wrathion who according to theory, might be N'zoth. (Appearance of Wrathion matches the description of the human avatar of N'zoth's inspiration in C'thulu mythos.)

I fully agree and hope this happens honestly. Would probably be one of the best plots we’ve seen imo. I’ve speculated that it’s the old gods manipulating the war as well. Would be cool

[Realitytrembles]

I've always said that the Forsaken are the #1 unavoidable obstacle to peace between the factions, and from the cinematic it doesn't look as if the rest of Horde wants to stand by and let them take the hit. Therefore the Alliance understandably needs to deal with the Horde in its entirety.

Indeed. Turning a blind eye to the practices of the Forsaken destroys any moral legitimacy the Horde may have had.

I say may because, in my view, the Horde has no such legitimacy. Consider:

1) The concept of a "Horde" is entirely orcish in its origins.
2) The orcs first encounter with Azeroth was as an invading and colonizing force that had mostly willingly drank demonic blood for power.
3) Without the orcs, there would be no Horde.

Accepting the Forsaken before the start of Classic is just the icing on the sht cake that is the Horde's "legitimacy".

There are individuals and groups within the Horde that are admirable/respectable (Tauren, Horde members of the Earthen Ring/Argent Crusade/Cenarion Circle) but they are vastly outnumbered by murderous, warmongering barbarians.

The only peace with them is the peace of the grave.

[MagusHenosis]

Y'all just want to argue about lore, don't you lol???

I suppose that is what the thread is about.

Well, do your thing YO.....

[Jastall]

If the Broken Shore is meant to be the catalyst for this faction war, it's the most artificial plot device ever. Not only did the Alliance have a clear view of the battlefield from a motherfucking airship which should have shown them the huge army the Horde had to deal with while Varian was grandstanding, but the SI-7 then knew that some of their numbers were subverted by he Legion, and the Horde's Warchief was killed which clearly shows they we actually fighting, and many important NPCs from both factions coexisted for a long time in the Order Halls, yet nobody even stopped one second to ask questions about what happened? I can stomach Genn being hit with the stupid stick for plot's sake, but the entire world is pushing it.

Plus Jaina being salty that the Horde wasn't there to save her king's bacon while she was also not there is just hilarious, stupid and altogether a perfect snapshot of the kind of writing that spawns these idiotic faction wars.

The novel is going to have to explain a hell of a lot for me to accept the premise as anything but yet another pointless race war fueled by base resentment that will lead nowhere and inevitably be interrupted by the monster of the week. And having that sort of thing explained in a novel, rather than be shown in game, always sucks.

[Zulkhan]

Good, so you all agree they hold no respect for each other, and that they did indeed leave Varian behind. Guess we also forgot what Lok'tar ogar means..

You said they were "fellow soldiers", they objectively aren't. Of course the Horde comes first if said Horde is facing annihilation by the hands of an endless swarm of demons. Fuck, the first thing the Alliance thought to do when shit went south was retreating as well.

Like WMDs in Iraq???

Reality.......what a bitch, right???

Yeah, almost like context. You know, dat stranger.

[Florena]

According to the info we have from the Novel Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind.

I know. But we don't have that novel just a chapter of it. We don't have the full story and context of what actually HAPPENS. I'm not saying don't speculate or don't be cynical about the odds of the story being good. Hell I doubt i'm going to like it myself. But we don't know, and it's possible it'll turn out to be more cohesive than we think. We'll just have to wait and sede.