Was Battle for Azeroth really the expansion intended to follow Legion?

[anaxie]

I'm not bashing on anything, just hear me out.

I have a feeling that Battle of Azeroth wasn't actually planned to be the expansion after Legion, but they decided to squeeze it in mid-development instead of the other expansion that was intended to follow (now known as 9.0), as a by-product.


Edit to clarify: I don't have anything to say about the Lore/Story, I think the direction it's taking is fine. It's the gameplay and features of this expansion that I base my theory upon. No matter what gameplay or features an expansion provides the Lore could always be and end up the same, regardless of features.

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Why?

For me, Battle of Azeroth is Legion 2.0; it comes with improvements and some new content, but very minor features. Minor features that appears to be a huge questionmark for the developers (as for now), it seems like they barely have any idea yet how the features will work out, as if the features are still in early development. The entire expansion only builds upon Legion (not really a bad thing), but barely add anything new to the table, drastically reduces the amount of development time required.

The 4 "major new features" of Battle of Azeroth are all minor.

• The Heart of Azeroth is built upon Legions Artifact progression-system.
• The Islands Exploration feature is mostly different templates of small islands/areas with limited variables of "randomly generated, dynamic, content", built with or based of the already existing Scenario feature.
• Warfronts. Stromgarde, the Warfront, was a very early work in progress by the look of it, of an expansion supposed to be developed for over a year. Shouldn't it be more finished or why wouldn't they otherwise show us a better work in progress? It seems like Warfronts are the latest feature they decided to add and still early in development. They base most of the content from Warcraft 3, why? To reduce development time?
• Allied Races - re-used assets, it doesn't even appear they'll have their own starting zone. A good feature overall, but it's so minor.

Edit: I forgot to mention the social features, however, my opinion still stands. This is a minor feature, most likely built upon Battle.Net API, not developed by the WoW team.

Where's the new MAJOR FEATURE?

I've also seen a lot of reused assets in the footage we've recieved, more than ever before. It's not a bad thing, just mentioning it (reducing development time, again).


I think they want 9.0 (the expansion after Battle of Azeroth) to be "huge" and "the next big thing" and want to give it more development time. So instead of releasing it next, they squeezed in Battle for Azeroth.

This is why I also believe why they announce "Classic WoW". They know Battle of Azeroth is a risk to stand alone and in order to try to stabilize the player base and income the game generates they have to do something drastic. Battle of Azeroth is "half an expansion" and Classic WoW is part of the other half that would make out a full expansion. It's only technical issues to deliver Classic, the content already exist to some extent. I wouldn't be surprised if 8.2 is the last patch for this expansion and we already get a new expansion announcement next BlizzCon (2018).

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Also, I've noticed this before in their expansions, some of this is my opinion of course, but Battle of Azeroth takes this to a whole new level:

Vanilla - ?
TBC - I don't believe there was much cut content for TBC.
WotLK - Mostly great expansion with a lot of content and story.
Cataclysm - Lackluster expansion, a lot of cut content (yes, I know the world-revamp took a huge amount of man power).
MoP - Mostly great expansion with a lot of content and story.
WoD - Lackluster expansion, a lot of cut content.
Legion - Mostly great expansion with a lot of content and story.
Battle for Azeroth - ... Do I have to say anything?
9.0 - Mostly great expansion with a lot of content and story???


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TL;DR

• Battle for Azeroth wasn't intended to be the next expansion, is a by-product of 9.0.
• A lot of reused assets, reducing development time.
• New major features are minor and some are based of current/old content, reducing development time.
• Classic WoW introduced to keep players subscribed or get players to re-subscribe if Battle of Azeroth will fail (huge content-droughts). Seperate team(?), content is already there, only technical issues.
• All this in order to get more development time for 9.0 (expansion after Battle for Azeroth).

Yeah Wotlk didnt cut the entire Azjol Nerub Zone and raid or anything.
Zul'drak just kind of ended. Killed their Chieftain in MoP though!

Oh and that copy and paste Naxx and ToC raid The pinnacle of content right there.

[icedtea]

That's it, though, isn't it?

Uh, what? Have you even played Legion? That's not even close to it. On top of the new artifact system, Legion had a new class, the whole Mythic + system, the World Quest system, the level scaling system, the class halls and class content, all of which have been pretty damn successful as far as major new features or additions go. Plus there was legendaries, and the revival of world bosses, PVP talents, the PVP prestige leveling system, just lots and lots of new features and game systems. Not all of them ended up working out super well, but at least there was a ton of new stuff to check out.

BfA's main selling points, in comparison, seems to be rehashed invasions/scenarios with better ai, and warfronts, which seem to be mostly hypothetical at this point since they seem unable to actually demonstrate what they are or explain how they work. Even if we assume they'll both turn out completely awesome, that's still very, very light on new features compared to all the stuff Legion brought to the table.

[Deleted]

Yeah Wotlk didnt cut the entire Azjol Nerub Zone and raid or anything.
Zul'drak just kind of ended. Killed their Chieftain in MoP though!

Oh and that copy and paste Naxx and ToC raid The pinnacle of content right there.

That's true, I completely forgot about that. WotLK was still praised as an expansion though, even with that content cut, so the statement stands.

[haxartus]

That and the revamped levelling and six new races;

But they aren't new. People quickly figured out that the only "new" race with different models are the new trolls. The others are just a recolor.

And the reason they start at level 20 is because Blizzard is too lazy to make them a starting zone.

With a design like this, I could make like 50 new races in 30 minutes. Literally.

[anaxie]

That's true, I completely forgot about that. WotLK was still praised as an expansion though, even with that content cut, so the statement stands.

You can praise it all you like

Cataclysm 4.0 -4.2 was still superior in every way despite the hate from bandwagon idiots.

then it landslided pretty spectacularly downhill with 4.3 and the broken promises of Abyssal Maw and WOTA raids

- - - Updated - - -

But they aren't new. People quickly figured out that the only "new" race with different models are the new trolls. The others are just a recolor.

And the reason they start at level 20 is because Blizzard is too lazy to make them a starting zone.

With a design like this, I could make like 50 new races in 30 minutes. Literally.

its new in a sense that it's going to generate a good portion of their income from race changes those 2 quarters because of special racials

Allied races shouldnt be looked at as an EXPANSION FEATURE.
they're microtransactions have fun with that revelation

[Deleted]

You can praise it all you like

Cataclysm 4.0 -4.2 was still superior in every way despite the hate from bandwagon idiots.

then it landslided pretty spectacularly downhill with 4.3 and the broken promises of Abyssal Maw and WOTA raids

I didn't play during WotLK, so I can't really praise it. I base it of what I know most of the community have said.

Cataclysm had cut content at launch, Path of the Titans, etc. Abyssal Maw was supposed to launch with 4.2, but got cut because the World Revamp took too much resources and most people disliked Vashir. 4.1 had very little content, two remade dungeons.

I personally started play during Cataclysm. I like that expansion, but most of the community dislike it, that's why I said it's a lackluster expansion.

[Littleshashi]

Blizzard's product is highly polished, low-risk.

"Things are ready when they're ready."

I think OP is correct observing a "tick-tock" expansion cycle like Intel. BfA certainly feels like a smaller cycle, but for all we know the new Excursion mob AI and the Warfront RTS/RPG blend are really big changes under the hood.

[anaxie]

I didn't play during WotLK, so I can't really praise it. I base it of what I know most of the community have said.

Cataclysm had cut content at launch, Path of the Titans, etc. Abyssal Maw was supposed to launch with 4.2, but got cut because the World Revamp took too much resources and most people disliked Vashir. 4.1 had very little content, two remade dungeons.

Cataclysm had the largest out of the box development content.

Cataclysms first tier would be stretched out for 10 + months if it were launched today

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Yeah Wotlk didnt cut the entire Azjol Nerub Zone and raid or anything.
Zul'drak just kind of ended. Killed their Chieftain in MoP though!

Oh and that copy and paste Naxx and ToC raid The pinnacle of content right there.

Cutting/reusing content didnt use to be a big deal as it is now. WotLK and Cata both promised features (new dances and path of the titans, respectively) in their announcements that never came to pass and people didnt lose their shit about it, or at least not as much as now.

Now though, if they show even a concept of something that they later on cut, they're liars who falsely advertised their game. While it's a good thing to hold companies accountable for faulty products, I feel it's gone too far in this case.

[anaxie]

Cutting/reusing content didnt use to be a big deal as it is now. WotLK and Cata both promised features (new dances and path of the titans, respectively) in their announcements that never came to pass and people didnt lose their shit about it, or at least not as much as now.

Now though, if they show even a concept of something that they later on cut, they're liars who falsely advertised their game. While it's a good thing to hold companies accountable for faulty products, I feel it's gone too far in this case.

Wotlk would be branded as the worst fucking expansion ever launched today with a copy and paste Naxx

it was truely and abyssmal launch for those that werent people stareing through windows at raiders the previous 4 years

[Jtree]

Two zones and two dungeons are far into development? Yeah, no.

In the Q&A's there was so many "We don't know yet", "We haven't decided yet", "It's TBD" answers. If this expansion has been developed from the start of Legion, or even before, I'd like to think they have answers for what they're doing. They almost know NOTHING about Warfronts, their "major feature" of the expansion; it's like they came up with the idea a month before BlizzCon and made a quick map (Stromgarde) for the showcase.

Have they every had that much available for testing at a Blizzcon in the past? There's been some play testing available in the previous announcement Blizzcons, but I think those were the Pandaren or DH starting areas, IIRC.

Even if past announcements seemed more "polished", Blizz still had a lot of work to do. They've always added, changed, or cut things after the announcement. I will still maintain that this is for the people who cry for things they never saw; nevermind the new nay-sayers created to say that it's "underdeveloped".

Blizz is damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they-don't.

Yeah, my guess is that Legion WAS intended to follow MoP and WoD is most likely a by-product of Legion or a rush of an expansion because they needed more development time for Legion. The same thing is happening now. 9.0 was intended to be this expansion, but instead they rushed Battle for Azeroth as they need more development time.

They had said that WoD and Legion were both pitched at the same time. WoD was released first, as the Legion is a bigger and more climatic threat.

But hell, random internet speculators don't really know anything at all.

[Deleted]

Cataclysm had the largest out of the box development content.

Cataclysms first tier would be stretched out for 10 + months if it were launched today

I don't get what you're trying to say with this.

Cataclysm was released early December. Next tier released in very late June (this is ~8 months).
Legion was released late August. Next tier released in late June. (this is ~10 months).

So only a two month difference.

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Wotlk would be branded as the worst fucking expansion ever launched today with a copy and paste Naxx

it was truely and abyssmal launch for those that werent people stareing through windows at raiders the previous 4 years

Good point, people would be up in arms about Blizzard being lazy and how it makes no sense lorewise to kill the same bosses we killed in vanilla, but back then the reaction was pretty much "Cool, classic Naxx is back!".

[icedtea]

Cutting/reusing content didnt use to be a big deal as it is now. WotLK and Cata both promised features (new dances and path of the titans, respectively) in their announcements that never came to pass and people didnt lose their shit about it, or at least not as much as now.

Except that Cata has always been considered one of the worst expansions, mostly due to its cut content, and the dance studio has been a meme forever. WotLK gets a pass because despite stuff being cut, there was still more than enough there to enjoy.

Cut content only becomes a problem when there's not enough actual content to keep players occupied. See: Cata, WoD. The community, on the whole, isn't any more or less shitty now than it was during TBC.

[anaxie]

Good point, people would be up in arms about Blizzard being lazy and how it makes no sense lorewise to kill the same bosses we killed in vanilla, but back then the reaction was pretty much "Cool, classic Naxx is back!".

oh no the reaction was much much worse

especially when everything was cleared the first week.by 80% full raids

[Firebyrd]

Fair enough, a lot of what you said here makes sense and I can agree with it. You're right, but...

The part I based my theory upon was the lack of features Battle for Azeroth will bring us. If you compare with it Legion, or any other expansion at launch, it's so... lacking. The selling point is (not counting continents/dungeons and raids, etc) Heart of Azeroth (Artifact 2.0), six "new" races, two new queueable Scenario features and an updated social community feature, that's it. There's no profession updates, not really any updates to any class, etc.

Do you actually believe this is what they intended for this expansion and how they react to their feedback from Legion? That's why I believe this is a by-product of another expansion. It's an expansion that builds upon the foundation of Legion with a few new features in order to give more development time for 9.0.

Nope, I think this is pretty much in line with all the recent expansions other than maaaaybe MoP. I just looked through the feature trailers for Cata+. This is what was listed in each of those. Notice how much of it was fluff (or even cut in some cases). I think this is trying not to overpromise, not overhyping obvious things (like new quests and rewards), and trying not to spoil story stuff.

Cata:
-New Horde Race: Goblins
-New Alliance Race: Worgen
-Flying mounts in Azeroth
-New race/class combinations
-New monsters
-New dungeons and raids
-Azeroth reforged - Classic zones changed forever by the Cataclysm
-level cap raised to 85
-hundreds of new quests
-New secondary profession: archaeology
-New Heroic versions of Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep
-New battlegrounds with rated team play
-Guild leveling and achievements
-Path of the Titans

MoP:
-New race: Pandaren
-New class: Monk
-New continent: Pandaria
-level cap raised to 90
-Challenge mode dungeons
-PvE scenarios
-Pet battles
-New talent system

-WoD:
-New world: Draenor
-Build and upgrade your garrison
-New character models
-Level cap raised to 100
-New monsters
-New world PvP zone
-New items and rewards
-Hundreds of new quests
-Boost your character to level 90

Legion:
-New continent: Broken Isles
-level cap raised to 110
-New dungeons and raids
-New honor system
-Artifact weapons
-class order halls
-New class: Demon hunter

BfA:
-New continent: Kul Tiras
-New continent: Zandalar
-level cap raised to 120
-New dungeons and raids
-Plunder uncharted islands
-Dominate warfronts
-Allied races

[anaxie]

Except that Cata has always been considered one of the worst expansions, mostly due to its cut content, and the dance studio has been a meme forever. WotLK gets a pass because despite stuff being cut, there was still more than enough there to enjoy.

Cut content only becomes a problem when there's not enough actual content to keep players occupied. See: Cata, WoD. The community, on the whole, isn't any more or less shitty now than it was during TBC.

More then enough

I'm sure those 10 dungeons one repuation and copy and Paste single day clear raid would go a long way in 2017

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Except that Cata has always been considered one of the worst expansions, mostly due to its cut content, and the dance studio has been a meme forever. WotLK gets a pass because despite stuff being cut, there was still more than enough there to enjoy.

Cut content only becomes a problem when there's not enough actual content to keep players occupied. See: Cata, WoD. The community, on the whole, isn't any more or less shitty now than it was during TBC.

I agree about Cata, but the complaints were focused on other content that was cut later on during the expansion's life, and not the Path of the Titans progression that was cut early on.

- - - Updated - - -

oh no the reaction was much much worse

especially when everything was cleared the first week.by 80% full raids

Hmm, must have been my isolated experience then.

[icedtea]

More then enough

I'm sure those 10 dungeons one repuation and copy and Paste single day clear raid would go a long way in 2017

Naxx didn't go any further back at the launch of Wrath than it would today. Like you said, it was over instantly, and the thought of having to actually farm it for an entire raid tier is why I quit the game at the time.

That said, WotLK had a ton of content, and a lot of quality, and players weren't running out of things to do to the extent that the cut content really hurt it. Ulduar was good, ToC sucked, ICC was good, but whatever your opinions on them, there was enough stuff to keep players interested. They weren't hemorrhaging subs like they were at the end of Cata or throughout WoD, because people had enough to keep them occupied.

[Deleted]

Nope, I think this is pretty much in line with all the recent expansions other than maaaaybe MoP. I just looked through the feature trailers for Cata+. This is what was listed in each of those. Notice how much of it was fluff (or even cut in some cases). I think this is trying not to overpromise, not overhyping obvious things (like new quests and rewards), and trying not to spoil story stuff.

Cata:
-New Horde Race: Goblins
-New Alliance Race: Worgen
-Flying mounts in Azeroth
-New race/class combinations
-New monsters
-New dungeons and raids
-Azeroth reforged - Classic zones changed forever by the Cataclysm
-level cap raised to 85
-hundreds of new quests
-New secondary profession: archaeology
-New Heroic versions of Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep
-New battlegrounds with rated team play
-Guild leveling and achievements
-Path of the Titans

MoP:
-New race: Pandaren
-New class: Monk
-New continent: Pandaria
-level cap raised to 90
-Challenge mode dungeons
-PvE scenarios
-Pet battles
-New talent system

-WoD:
-New world: Draenor
-Build and upgrade your garrison
-New character models
-Level cap raised to 100
-New monsters
-New world PvP zone
-New items and rewards
-Hundreds of new quests
-Boost your character to level 90

Legion:
-New continent: Broken Isles
-level cap raised to 110
-New dungeons and raids
-New honor system
-Artifact weapons
-class order halls
-New class: Demon hunter

BfA:
-New continent: Kul Tiras
-New continent: Zandalar
-level cap raised to 120
-New dungeons and raids
-Plunder uncharted islands
-Dominate warfronts
-Allied races

Yeah, I can see that now. I guess it's as you say, they play the safecard, not promising/spoiling too much. I guess part of my theory is based of the lack of information from the developers then. So many "We don't know yet" answers that make you unsure if they actually planned this from the start, at all. Time will tell, hopefully we'll get some better answers in the future and have the developers actually show us that they KNOW what they're doing with this expansion.